Replacing a BMW M535d - can't even get to a short list
Discussion
For most of my life choosing my next car has been easy, I've mostly been able to assemble a pretty short list. This time I’m having sooo much difficulty deciding. I’m hoping for some advice, encouragement, real world experiences, or even ridicule (as is the PH way).
I’m no tyre kicker and cars for sale of the type(s) I’m looking for are fairly thin on the ground round my way, so it’s not just a case of test drive loads – I need to narrow it down a bit before I start travelling round.
Budget is a flexible (either way) £25k - which doesn't get you what it used too!
It needs to be -
I live in NE Scotland, so nice driving roads up here are often spoilt by poor maintenance, a decent ride would be appreciated – though my 5 series is hardly a magic carpet, so not a deal breaker.
My car history includes an Elise, Cerbera, Evo6, Lexus GS300, E39 touring, some 90’s hot-hatches, a few fast Fords, and a collection of other mundane or older stuff.
Current cars are - 2010 BMW M535d and Vauxhaull Monaro CV8. I’ve done a fair few miles in the BMW and whilst it’s a very capable and fun car to drive, it’s time to move it on. Being honest I’m really tired of the diesel noise. The Monaro is staying (99% sure on that) – it is my access to analogue driving, and I keep it nice for sunny days and holidays.
This is my list –
BMW M140i – This is the current front runner – I like that it’s fairly anonymous. However, will it be feel low-rent coming from a fairly well-specced 5 series? They are also favoured by the modification brigade –bad mods can mean poor reliability. I’ve nothing against those who modify (I did it to my 3 Cosworths years ago), but this is my daily so would prefer less risk and have it standard.
Merc A45 – faster than the 140i, but is it as fun to drive? I’m not bothered about traffic light GP or bragging rights.
BMW M5 (F10) – too similar to what I have perhaps? Will I be able to exploit the extra performance? Is it too fragile?
BMW M4 (F82) – top of the budget – I’d prefer a M3 for the practicality but they are at quite a significant premium it seems. Are they worth the extra over the 140i? Also modification worries for these too.
Alfa Quadrofoglio – would absolutely love one of these (this is my ‘heart car’), but far too expensive (at the moment).
Merc C63 or C43 – too similar to the Monaro? A bit of a one trick pony? Quite expensive for what they offer to me.
Merc E63 Bi-turbo – on paper my ideal car (esp in estate form) – but are these on a different level running cost-wise? Will also be a high miler at my budget. Also ‘on paper’ doesn’t translate into ‘want’ – I don’t really know why, but I’m finding it hard to be excited by an E-class. An E350d was the main competitor to my current 5 series and I didn’t find the choice a hard one to make at the time.
Early Porsche Panamera – left-field choice – ruinously expensive to run? Practical enough? Only been in older Porsches so not sure what to expect. Bit of a mid-life crisis car? Maybe I am actually having a mid-life crisis.
Something VAG? Never really been a fan. Good cars, but those that I have driven have been a bit lacking in soul, plus mostly FWD and “understeery” which is not to my taste.
Fiesta ST (or similar lower cost hatch) – Does this equal 70% of the fun of the more expensive cars for 30% or the cost? Not sure I could bring myself to actually do it, and people may laugh at a 52 year old in a teenager car, but I’m open to persuasion.
I’m no tyre kicker and cars for sale of the type(s) I’m looking for are fairly thin on the ground round my way, so it’s not just a case of test drive loads – I need to narrow it down a bit before I start travelling round.
Budget is a flexible (either way) £25k - which doesn't get you what it used too!
It needs to be -
- Petrol,
- RWD,
- Fun but can also daily drive.
- No SUVs / off road things (just not my cup of tea).
- 4 seats and prefer 4/5 doors.
- I need to be able to get my bicycle in the back (it fits in the boot of my 5 series) I’m ok with putting the rear seats down to do that.
- I couldn’t really care less about VED or economy (to a point, let’s say 20mpg as a minimum).
- I can afford to maintain my cars well and don’t mind performance car maintenance costs (again within reason – regular £5K bills would not be welcome) – and critically I don’t want to be left at the side of the road, so nothing too highly strung or fragile.
- I do about 10k miles per year, mostly for work
I live in NE Scotland, so nice driving roads up here are often spoilt by poor maintenance, a decent ride would be appreciated – though my 5 series is hardly a magic carpet, so not a deal breaker.
My car history includes an Elise, Cerbera, Evo6, Lexus GS300, E39 touring, some 90’s hot-hatches, a few fast Fords, and a collection of other mundane or older stuff.
Current cars are - 2010 BMW M535d and Vauxhaull Monaro CV8. I’ve done a fair few miles in the BMW and whilst it’s a very capable and fun car to drive, it’s time to move it on. Being honest I’m really tired of the diesel noise. The Monaro is staying (99% sure on that) – it is my access to analogue driving, and I keep it nice for sunny days and holidays.
This is my list –
BMW M140i – This is the current front runner – I like that it’s fairly anonymous. However, will it be feel low-rent coming from a fairly well-specced 5 series? They are also favoured by the modification brigade –bad mods can mean poor reliability. I’ve nothing against those who modify (I did it to my 3 Cosworths years ago), but this is my daily so would prefer less risk and have it standard.
Merc A45 – faster than the 140i, but is it as fun to drive? I’m not bothered about traffic light GP or bragging rights.
BMW M5 (F10) – too similar to what I have perhaps? Will I be able to exploit the extra performance? Is it too fragile?
BMW M4 (F82) – top of the budget – I’d prefer a M3 for the practicality but they are at quite a significant premium it seems. Are they worth the extra over the 140i? Also modification worries for these too.
Alfa Quadrofoglio – would absolutely love one of these (this is my ‘heart car’), but far too expensive (at the moment).
Merc C63 or C43 – too similar to the Monaro? A bit of a one trick pony? Quite expensive for what they offer to me.
Merc E63 Bi-turbo – on paper my ideal car (esp in estate form) – but are these on a different level running cost-wise? Will also be a high miler at my budget. Also ‘on paper’ doesn’t translate into ‘want’ – I don’t really know why, but I’m finding it hard to be excited by an E-class. An E350d was the main competitor to my current 5 series and I didn’t find the choice a hard one to make at the time.
Early Porsche Panamera – left-field choice – ruinously expensive to run? Practical enough? Only been in older Porsches so not sure what to expect. Bit of a mid-life crisis car? Maybe I am actually having a mid-life crisis.
Something VAG? Never really been a fan. Good cars, but those that I have driven have been a bit lacking in soul, plus mostly FWD and “understeery” which is not to my taste.
Fiesta ST (or similar lower cost hatch) – Does this equal 70% of the fun of the more expensive cars for 30% or the cost? Not sure I could bring myself to actually do it, and people may laugh at a 52 year old in a teenager car, but I’m open to persuasion.
Seems to be a lot of love for the Fiesta which is interesting, I do like a fast ford and I hear lots of good things about the Fiesta in particular, any owner I've ever spoken to has plenty of praise for them. It's certainly a frugal option. Has anybody swapped out a larger saloon for one who would care to share experiences? I'm all over Scotland visitng various whisky distileries in remote locations for my job, so I need some level of comfort, how are they day to day?
My tongue was firmly in my cheek when I mentioned people laughing, it really isn't a factor - I'm a 52 year old guy that goes full-on MAMIL on my bike so people laughing is something I'm used too.
@Terzo123 - no argument about your C63 comparison to the Monaro (and mines not a VXR either so even less power) - though I wasn't really talking about outright performance - it's more about the way it makes you feel driving it. The C63 is clearly a different league of car, but I just wonder if it would just feel like the Monaro on steroids? I've not driven one, so have no frame of reference. The Monaro was the car that replaced my Cerbera, and whilst the Cerbera was much, much faster - it made me feel similar - just without the bills, and the feeling the thing was constantly plotting to kill me. I'm by no means ruling the C63 out - far from it - there's a 2010 estate up for sale near me that I'm considering taking a look at - but it's a 2010 car up for 21K - and I don't think it's got the LSD, which as ZX10R says is a desirable thing to have and would add to the price. Are they really that good?
Thanks for those suggestions Njj850 - not thought about the Megane and know nothing about them, so will take a look - are you an owner? I kind of feel I've done the Lexus thing - my GS was a truly fantasic car, I put over 150K on that car and it just kept on going - I just feel like I've got the Lexus t-shirt now.
I think my list is getting longer, not shorter - anybody want to trash talk any of the cars on my list to put me off?
My tongue was firmly in my cheek when I mentioned people laughing, it really isn't a factor - I'm a 52 year old guy that goes full-on MAMIL on my bike so people laughing is something I'm used too.
@Terzo123 - no argument about your C63 comparison to the Monaro (and mines not a VXR either so even less power) - though I wasn't really talking about outright performance - it's more about the way it makes you feel driving it. The C63 is clearly a different league of car, but I just wonder if it would just feel like the Monaro on steroids? I've not driven one, so have no frame of reference. The Monaro was the car that replaced my Cerbera, and whilst the Cerbera was much, much faster - it made me feel similar - just without the bills, and the feeling the thing was constantly plotting to kill me. I'm by no means ruling the C63 out - far from it - there's a 2010 estate up for sale near me that I'm considering taking a look at - but it's a 2010 car up for 21K - and I don't think it's got the LSD, which as ZX10R says is a desirable thing to have and would add to the price. Are they really that good?
Thanks for those suggestions Njj850 - not thought about the Megane and know nothing about them, so will take a look - are you an owner? I kind of feel I've done the Lexus thing - my GS was a truly fantasic car, I put over 150K on that car and it just kept on going - I just feel like I've got the Lexus t-shirt now.
I think my list is getting longer, not shorter - anybody want to trash talk any of the cars on my list to put me off?
@ScoobyChris - That's insightful - thanks for posting - Options seem to greatly affect the second hand values on the M140i - and I guess that's partly my concern - lots of things I take for granted in my 5 can be rare options in the 1 series and as it's a car with the same DNA that might bother me, whereas if I moved to a different manufacturer it would be easier to adapt IYSWIM? Good to hear they are inexpensive to run though - the 5 sure isn't a cheap car to keep in good order. Does yours have the adaptive suspension? - I read it's a real game changer where ride comfort is concerned. I'm on non-adaptive M-suspension in my 5 and it's pretty harsh on Scottish roads - not that it bothers me all that much to be honest, but the Monaro is far smoother.
@Bigchungus (great forum handle btw) - thanks, probably not buying for a while (and need to decide what first!) - but happy to hear about your car in case the planets align... I've bought from fellow PHers in the past and it's always a preference to keep it in the family.
@nordboy The A45, esp with the aero kit sure is an extrovert's choice. If it's a good steer though, I honestly don't mind, but there is a lot to be said for stealth. I've been in a couple of Jag XF - albeit diesel variants - nice cars. How's it been reliability-wise? A friend of mine spent a fair bit of time in the Jag dealership - but I've no idea how the petrol engines fair in that respect.
@Bigchungus (great forum handle btw) - thanks, probably not buying for a while (and need to decide what first!) - but happy to hear about your car in case the planets align... I've bought from fellow PHers in the past and it's always a preference to keep it in the family.
@nordboy The A45, esp with the aero kit sure is an extrovert's choice. If it's a good steer though, I honestly don't mind, but there is a lot to be said for stealth. I've been in a couple of Jag XF - albeit diesel variants - nice cars. How's it been reliability-wise? A friend of mine spent a fair bit of time in the Jag dealership - but I've no idea how the petrol engines fair in that respect.
My criteria are definitely flexible - and subject to change at no notice 
which is why I am considering fwd hot hatches as a possibility... But I'm definitely drawn to the Ghibli and the XFS (and still the M140i dammit...) more than the others so far. The A45 is definitely out now - I'm pretty sure the gearbox would end up annoying me - I'm frequently driving round 10mph speed limited sites and it sounds like it's not happy doing stuff like that.
@ZX10R - Nairn is just up the road from me so that's a plus point for the Maserati - and oddly I kind of like things that they get criticised for (parts bin switches, slightly questionable ergonomics, etc) it seems to fit with them being Italian. I remember going for a passenger ride in a Ferrari 355 and thinking how cheap bits of the interior felt - then completely forgetting it all when the noise kicked in. The Ghibli certainly sounds special in the YouTube videos I watched last night.
@fasteddie - thanks for passing on your experiences on the Ghibli S - stereo sound quality in cars has never bothered me so as long as you can connect stuff to it and get the radio - that's good enough for me. How's it been reliability-wise? And if it has broken, how is for getting parts etc? I can put up with foibles and niggles, but having the thing off the road for weeks at a time would put me off.
@nordboy the XFS is up there now - seems to be a really well kept secret of a car - I had no idea they existed, and pretty good value - my only problem is going to be finding one close enough to take a look at (actually same problem for the Maserati) - I've set up an autotrader search alert.
@belle427 & bhodi - I think the 3/4 series platform would be plenty big enough especially if they had folding rear seats - and happy to compromise in the 4 doors thing for the right car - the question is the same though as with the M140i - will it feel like a step down and / or sufficiently different from the 5 coming from the same stable? Only I can answer that really I suppose. I find it interesting that nobody has suggested holding out for the M3 / M4.
So, I've managed to reduce the list by one... but added 2...
which is why I am considering fwd hot hatches as a possibility... But I'm definitely drawn to the Ghibli and the XFS (and still the M140i dammit...) more than the others so far. The A45 is definitely out now - I'm pretty sure the gearbox would end up annoying me - I'm frequently driving round 10mph speed limited sites and it sounds like it's not happy doing stuff like that.@ZX10R - Nairn is just up the road from me so that's a plus point for the Maserati - and oddly I kind of like things that they get criticised for (parts bin switches, slightly questionable ergonomics, etc) it seems to fit with them being Italian. I remember going for a passenger ride in a Ferrari 355 and thinking how cheap bits of the interior felt - then completely forgetting it all when the noise kicked in. The Ghibli certainly sounds special in the YouTube videos I watched last night.
@fasteddie - thanks for passing on your experiences on the Ghibli S - stereo sound quality in cars has never bothered me so as long as you can connect stuff to it and get the radio - that's good enough for me. How's it been reliability-wise? And if it has broken, how is for getting parts etc? I can put up with foibles and niggles, but having the thing off the road for weeks at a time would put me off.
@nordboy the XFS is up there now - seems to be a really well kept secret of a car - I had no idea they existed, and pretty good value - my only problem is going to be finding one close enough to take a look at (actually same problem for the Maserati) - I've set up an autotrader search alert.
@belle427 & bhodi - I think the 3/4 series platform would be plenty big enough especially if they had folding rear seats - and happy to compromise in the 4 doors thing for the right car - the question is the same though as with the M140i - will it feel like a step down and / or sufficiently different from the 5 coming from the same stable? Only I can answer that really I suppose. I find it interesting that nobody has suggested holding out for the M3 / M4.
So, I've managed to reduce the list by one... but added 2...
bodhi said:
The Gran Coupe should fit the bill though. Bigger boot than the M140i and better looking than the 2 door Coupe imo. Plenty around in budget, and it has some more premium options available than the 1 Series (HUD, Individual Paint etc).
Ok, I just looked at some ads for the 440i Gran Coupe and it really does fit the bill - and available 'approved used' in budget.Dammit BMW - stop doing this! Just when I think I'm ready to turn my back on you, you go make a car that fits the bill and make it easy for me to go and buy one.
FastEdd11e said:
I'll second the Maserati Ghibli S vote.
We've run one for 18 months, 20k miles and it's amazing.
The weak link is the stereo. It's not an amazing audio experience but it suffices.
I've got a few more questions about the Ghibli S - I've watched a few videos and there are a couple of things that might influence my decision. There's a lot I would forgive for that noise, which is glorious, but other things that will just make my life a pain that I need to consider.We've run one for 18 months, 20k miles and it's amazing.
The weak link is the stereo. It's not an amazing audio experience but it suffices.
First is speed bumps... I need to navigate some pretty severe speed bumps at my daughters school and at some of the sites I visit for my job. Is it really terrible? The 5 and the Monaro are 'ok' but I need to crawl over them, so if the Ghibli is seriously low then I might end up scraping the underside of the car a lot, I'm not sure that I should knowingly subject a car to that sort of treatment.
Second is range - I'm not too bothered about the cost of the fuel, but if the range on the tank is really bad, then that might be an issue for me. It does look like the economy on the car is fairly awful - I can live with that, but if the tank is tiny too, then trips down south are going to get annoying. Bear in mind that some of the best driving roads are heading across the Cairngorms on my longer journeys to the Central belt of Scotland, so I won't want to be hyper-miling, otherwise I might as well get another diesel.
Finally - What's the sweet spot for the car with options and manufacture year? I understand that there were some updates around 2016(?) is it worth holding out for a later car? Are there any must-have options that transform the ownership experience?
Thanks to everybody for replying to the thread so far, it's really helping my focus on what I will be looking for.
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