Sold Car / Money Back / Complex One?

[PistonTim]

I sold my 2013 BMW X1 on Saturday, listed for £5,250 on FB Marketplace, 10 years old 132,000 miles N47, no issues I have been aware of since I bought it last April with 108,000 on the clock. Advert made no claims about condition or 'runs well' but it did anyway and has been my daily driver but I'm doing a lot of miles now and have a car through work.

Guy turns up, had a good look round and did a short test drive, I offered a longer one but he declined.

Paid cash £4,200 and drove it at away. He says he bought it for his girlfriend and V5 in her name not his.

He then rings me Sunday night that the engine warning light has come on, I tell him it's never done that before.

He then sends me another photo of the warning light yesterday morning, the says he wants to return the car as its 'not as described', that I'm not cooperating, much backwards and forwards and return is agreed. He says it's an EGR or DPF fault, and the dealer has told him the car has lots of faults.

I said return it for a refund, he then said later it would cost too much money to take it back so I said no problem, I'll come and collect it, he then says the garage (dealer) shuts at 6:30.

I call the dealer where he said it was, no record of the car and him (it's the only dealer in the area).

He's also called the garage who replaced the exhaust flexi many months ago trying to tell them they replaced the DPF when they didn't.

I've just had another message to say as I wont cooperate with the cost of repairs he is going to file for small claims court.

NOW I KNOW I've been a soft touch, but I don't like conflict (autistic nature) and I thought you know, sold as seen, but I'm not a bad person I just want to do what's right and sold the car in good faith in full working order.

I also found the service book so in theory I could get more money for reselling it later on.

So clearly his game is to try and get cash for undisclosed repairs from me through means of threatening behaviour, I can hold my own in court and have my offer to collect and refund in writing too.

My biggest concern is he turns up, obviously knows where I live, large bloke (builder type) and he knows what car I drive now etc.

Is there anything else I need to do or just wait and see if the paperwork materialises?

Edited by PistonTim on Tuesday 8th August 10:39

[PistonTim]

Wacky Racer said:

Only one word. Cazoo.

Cue next load of replies Ignore, Block number etc.

Good luck.

Thanks, I have no issue with court its more the threatening, harassment etc but I suppose I just need to hear if from people who will agree (I hope) I'm in the right here.

[PistonTim]

charltjr said:

Just ignore him. He won’t turn up, it’s standard operating procedure for a minority of morons these days.

If paperwork does arrive then any judge will toss it out based on things being as you described.

Thanks, he was even claiming over the phone that I could have bought a code reader and reset the code before I sold it to him. I said that was a libel statement.

[PistonTim]

charltjr said:

PistonTim said:

Thanks, he was even claiming over the phone that I could have bought a code reader and reset the code before I sold it to him. I said that was a libel statement.

They are just trying it on. You properly called their bluff by offering to take the car back, the fact that they are ignoring that and pressing for money off means they are scammers or morons or both.

Dealing with people like that is like the old saying about playing chess against a pigeon - it doesn’t matter what you do, they’ll knock all the pieces over, crap on the board and then fly off.

Can't really argue with offering a full refund AND collecting the car myself can you?

[PistonTim]

Hammersia said:

PistonTim said:

charltjr said:

Just ignore him. He won’t turn up, it’s standard operating procedure for a minority of morons these days.

If paperwork does arrive then any judge will toss it out based on things being as you described.

Thanks, he was even claiming over the phone that I could have bought a code reader and reset the code before I sold it to him. I said that was a libel statement.

Technically if he said it over the phone then that would be slander, not libel.

Thanks, yes agree was just heat of moment on phone, ridiculous claim though.

[PistonTim]

evvo602 said:

We had a similar experience a couple of years ago with a BMW 1 series, owned by us from new, guy buys it then rings up on way home to say it had gone on to limp mode, he takes it to BMW garage next morning need full exhaust system apparently, I rang the garage up he hadnt taken the car to the garage at all, I told him if he wanted his money back to bring the car back. Or I would arrange collection, this was followed by a load of threats of what he was going to do non of which materialised.

My advice is block his number & ignore anything else from him he will so find some other poor sod to try and rip off.

Sounds almost identical!

[PistonTim]

This was the wording from the ad:

2013 BMW X1 · Suv · Driven 132,000 kilometres

2.0D 184bhp
8 Speed Auto
Mineral grey metallic paint
Professional tints to rear
18” alloy wheels
Xenon headlights - adaptive and automatic
Oyster leather interior
Dark copper trim
Leather sports steering wheel with paddle shift
Heated front seats
BMW Professional navigation (2022 maps update)
DAB
Bluetooth phone connection
Dimming mirrors
Reversing camera and sensors
Front parking sensors
Auto wipers

2 owners including myself
MOT December 2023
Service due December 2024 or in 5,000 miles

Recently had matching tyres all round, new brake discs and pads, battery, exhaust flexi.

Timing chain checked December 2022 and in good condition.

Small mark to rear corner as shown where I nudged a gate post despite the sensors and camera!

Two keys.

I’ve had it serviced once in my ownership (and receipts for tyres and brakes) but I cannot find the service book.

[PistonTim]

Muzzer79 said:

If the buyer was serious about thinking the car was a dud and he'd been ripped off, he'd have accepted the OPs offer of a refund and collecting the car himself.

The fact that he hasn't tells us everything - his next move will be to offer that the OP gives him £200/£500/£1000 back to 'fix the problems' and make good instead of a refund.

Scammer.

Exactly, he was floating a £1k number on the phone but I told him I wasn't going to send sums of money for undisclosed work on a car that was in working order when I sold it.

[PistonTim]

Tyrell Corp said:

PistonTim said:

Thanks, he was even claiming over the phone that I could have bought a code reader and reset the code before I sold it to him. I said that was a libel statement.

Knowing this, why did he not do a more thorough test drive and inspection? a savvy buyer might expect this and even bought their own code reader.

You agreed to over 20% off asking already, I suspect you are too 'nice' and he is trying it on. Any court claim will involve actual invoices and evidence of 'repairs'. Refusing your offer of a refund says it all.

You won't see him again . Now put all that service history right in the bin.




People do try their luck, I remember selling an old Haynes manual on ebay, something for a really obsolete 70's car.
Buyer from (dodgy) middle eastern country agreed to £5 plus £15 postage at cost, and several weeks wait with no signature. Few weeks later I get the message it hasn't turned up and asking for full refund.
I said no problem, leave it another week, if it doesn't turn up I have another I can send you.(I didn't, I just made it up) never heard back from him.

He must have only driven it two miles round the area, I said take it for a longer drive but he declined.

[PistonTim]

vikingaero said:

This seems to be a common MO for certain types - buy a secondhand car, claim faults have appeared after purchase and demand some money back and if not threaten small claims. If he is successful then he's quids in. It's almost as though there's no harm in trying.

OP, have you check the photo metadata to see if it was taken from a phone or if he lifted a picture of the internet for that make/model of car?

Photo seems legitimate, obviously no way of knowing why / what the light is on.

[PistonTim]

myvision said:

PistonTim said:

Photo seems legitimate, obviously no way of knowing why / what the light is on.

Has he taken the photo before the light goes out mine stays on when starting the car then goes out?
Block his number and ignore him.

Could be, theres a yellow ! on the display in the middle of the dashboard and as you saw the engine warning light thats on when you start it.

No idea what the yellow exclamation mark by itself means except the BMW group suggests it’s door open?

Edited by PistonTim on Tuesday 8th August 12:01

[PistonTim]

Muzzer79 said:

zedx19 said:

"I will arrange to collect the car and issue a refund, I will not entertain any requests for money for repairs, if this is not satisfactory please proceed with the small claims court"

Send him that, ignore any other correspondence unless its discussions over when you can collect the car. You seem like a decent person, the buyer has sensed that and now praying on your sense on decency, do not give in, they are trying to scam you.

I wouldn't even do that now that the buyer has revealed himself to be so unscrupulous - who knows what he's done to the car since he bought it from the OP.

Just ignore him and block him. If he files his court case (he won't) then more fool him.

Thanks both for this, I stated in text conversation I would collect and arrange refund, he has decided to 'threaten' small claims. My offer was in writing for the full purchase price as refund.

Also the garage he mentioned not having the car or knowledge of him is highly questionable.

[PistonTim]

Muzzer79 said:

PistonTim said:

Muzzer79 said:

zedx19 said:

"I will arrange to collect the car and issue a refund, I will not entertain any requests for money for repairs, if this is not satisfactory please proceed with the small claims court"

Send him that, ignore any other correspondence unless its discussions over when you can collect the car. You seem like a decent person, the buyer has sensed that and now praying on your sense on decency, do not give in, they are trying to scam you.

I wouldn't even do that now that the buyer has revealed himself to be so unscrupulous - who knows what he's done to the car since he bought it from the OP.

Just ignore him and block him. If he files his court case (he won't) then more fool him.

Thanks both for this, I stated in text conversation I would collect and arrange refund, he has decided to 'threaten' small claims. My offer was in writing for the full purchase price as refund.

Also the garage he mentioned not having the car or knowledge of him is highly questionable.

He's a scammer. Do not contact him any further. If you do, you're just giving him money back with which he can scam someone else.

i've got no intention of replying to any further messages or calls from him now if theres a legal implication (even if there isnt)

[PistonTim]

a311 said:

I don't miss having cars to sell and hadn't heard of this scam but this is about the third time in as many weeks I've seen this on PH alone.

I'm surprised folk can be arsed with the hassle. You've been more reasonable than most, as others have said one final message then cease communications.

It's not like its big money either!

[PistonTim]

Muzzer79 said:

a311 said:

PistonTim said:

a311 said:

I don't miss having cars to sell and hadn't heard of this scam but this is about the third time in as many weeks I've seen this on PH alone.

I'm surprised folk can be arsed with the hassle. You've been more reasonable than most, as others have said one final message then cease communications.

It's not like its big money either!

It isn't I agree. Wonder what the angle is with these chancers? One time windfall if it goes to plan or do they buy, try this on and then sell on again? Surely the latter is a heap load of hassle.

Buyer buys a car for £4200, advertised at £5250. I don't know how the OP priced it relative to it's actual value, but one assumes it's a car worth in the top half of the £4000 region and the OP wanted a quicker sale. So the buyer already has a good deal.

He'll then try and get some money back, claiming it's faulty. If the OP caved and gave in, that's more money in the buyer's profit pocket.

Buyer will then sell the car, probably in another platform, for around £5000. He's now made probably over £1500 on a £5000 transaction. Not bad for a few hours work and some intimidatory texting/phone calls.

Do this a few times and that profit adds up.

A lot of people will get scared that they've sold a faulty car and cough up a few hundred pounds to make the problem go away. If they don't, the buyer still has a car he can make a bit of money on.

Coupled with the fact that I highly doubt it's a registered trader that the OP was dealing with, therefore all his profit is cash and tax free and you can see why it's worth the hassle.

Thanks, market is tricky as Im SE England so the ULEZ expansion has hit non-compliant cars and big diesels quite hard, its a high spec albeit high (ish) miles car, had it up for a few weeks and mostly time wasters but maybe summer hols isnt best time to be selling.

I did check a BMW forum against a photo of the error and consensus is that it's engine check light on startup (engine light) with the door open (yellow !).

I KNOW it wasnt faulty when I sold it and I stand by that, I have nothing to gain selling a dodgy car.

[PistonTim]

Pelicula said:

Would the police not be interested in pursuing any of these individuals ?
Deception, theft, attempting to obtain money with menaces, causing harassment alarm and distress ?
I'm sure some would be tricky to prove, but others would be an easy nick surely ?

You'd have thought so?

He has been particularly threatening and unpleasant including screaming down the phone at me.

I'm a 42 year old reasonably robust guy with a decent corporate job where we do deal with contractors and legal discussions and also it's an FSA regulated environment where you have to have integrity, but also don't take any nonsense. If he continues I'll have no issues in representing or filing a police report for harassment. I don't like physical conflict or aggression but paperwork wise or formal conversation no issue at all.

Imagine if you were a 'stereotypical' elderly or vulnerable person etc....

Edited by PistonTim on Tuesday 8th August 15:53

[PistonTim]

Pelicula said:

PistonTim said:

Pelicula said:

Would the police not be interested in pursuing any of these individuals ?
Deception, theft, attempting to obtain money with menaces, causing harassment alarm and distress ?
I'm sure some would be tricky to prove, but others would be an easy nick surely ?

You'd have thought so?

He has been particularly threatening and unpleasant including screaming down the phone at me.

What kind of threats ? Do you still have the V5 with his name and address ?

No because it was sold to his 'girlfriend' who I never actually met or saw, I have her details of course on the V5 copy.

More intimidation around if I don't cooperate or help with the 'cost of repairs' then he'll be taking me to court.

He also said he'd spoken to Citizens Advice and the Police about what action he could take.

Initially though he seemed desperate to return it yet as soon as I offered to collect it and refund all went silent which suggests that wasn't what he was going for.

[PistonTim]

Muzzer79 said:

PistonTim said:

More intimidation around if I don't cooperate or help with the 'cost of repairs' then he'll be taking me to court.

He also said he'd spoken to Citizens Advice and the Police about what action he could take.

Initially though he seemed desperate to return it yet as soon as I offered to collect it and refund all went silent which suggests that wasn't what he was going for.

All tactics to get you to cough up some cash. These people know what buttons to push.

People get scared of court, scared of CAB, scared of the Police. They'll be intimidated into paying the buyer a few hundred pounds to make it go away. They may even question their own version of events.........was the car really OK when I sold it? Have I ripped someone off?

The Police, in reality, can't do anything. It's a civil matter, unless he actually threatens your person or property.

Exactly, I'm not scared of court because I know I've not done anything wrong and the car was in 'great working order' before and at the point of sale. I stand by that and hence I wont be scared into more money but yes if actual threats escalate it will be one for the police.

[PistonTim]

andymc said:

was it up at £5200 and you took £4200? is that correct?

£5,250 I accepted £4,200.

The market is difficult even for a well specced car but probably not the best time to sell but with new car already here I was Ok to let it go.

WBAC was £3,400ish.

[PistonTim]

Hugo Stiglitz said:

You've kept all communication?

The I contacted that garage not heard of you etc.

On principle I'd happily wait the small claims and supply them with all the messages.

Autistic traits or not you aren't being bullied.

I haven’t told him that I spoke to the garage and they had no record of it, after I offered to collect it myself he went quiet last night and I just got a text saying he was going to pursue small claims this morning which I haven’t replied to.

Everything I’ve done has been screenshotted.