Differences between Noble V6 TT and the common Duratec V6?

[renrut]

Wanting to pick the brains of the PH massive. I'm looking for info on what Noble change on their V6s to get the extra power out and keep them reliable under forced induction compared to the common or garden Ford / Jaguar / Mazda V6?

I'm aware they add on 2 turbos (GT28s?) but beyond that finding concrete information is difficult. Some say they've got forged pistons to drop compression, some say its different rods, some say nothing. Its all just hearsay and I'd like to cut through all that and get some solid answers.

Hopefully someone on here will have the answers, and ideally a shopping list

[renrut]

T25s and shorter rods? A lot less than I was expecting. Anyone have the specific turbo P/Ns, I assume Garrett ones?

[renrut]

Adrian W said:

What car are looking to put this engine in?

Well I've got an S-type with the AJ-V6 in it already and although I love the car, a little bit more power is always nice. So I was wondering what the damage would be to get a more powerful version of the engine built up then dropped in. As Noble have already done the leg work it would be rude not to pay attention.

mgbond said:

TuxMan said:

There is a bit more than suggested , STD turbos are T25 or T28 both supplied by Universal turbos , Noble also fit a larger capacity sump and there are oil squierters machined in to the block to cool piston crowns , as suggested the con rods are shorted although STD cast pistons are kept . Also machined into the head are oil supply feeds for the turbo's . Tux

Don't forget that the rods are also aroow rods and that the bolts used are ARP 2000.

Bondy

Thanks for that. Sounds like its a bit more intensive than just some shorter rods and a couple of turbos then what with machining work on the head and block.

[renrut]

Adrian W said:

The reason i asked was that the exhaust syatem will cost lots, you may be able to reduce the cost by using Noble manifolds, however you may find that you dont have enough space, the turbo's on the Noble are fairly close to the exhaust ports.

They put a V6 twin turbo diesel in there so there should be space for some turbos and pipework. But it depends on how big the turbos are I suppose. I'd imagine the ones on the diesel are pretty tiny being only just over 200bhp between 2 of them.

A Rotrex was the first thing I looked at but stopped because the front of the engine is pretty cluttered already. Maybe worth a second look. If I changed over to electric PAS (no idea how difficult that is) then I could lose the PAS pump and have a nice location for it and it would be neatly tucked out of sight too.

[renrut]

So just to recap -

Shorter and stronger rods (spec/part numbers anyone?), definitely necessary for over 300bhp.

T25 turbos.

Intercoolers (obviously).

That's all the mechanical differences.

I'd assume bigger injectors and a remap to suit to finish it off.

So it sounds quite doable assuming I'm prepared to open up the engine and shell out the money.

I need to weigh up the pros/cons of rotrex vs turbo.

[renrut]

YellowShed said:

Just curious. How are you going to manage all this? The OE ECU won't work with boost, and if you've an auto, good luck on getting that to still change gear when you've played about with the ECU.

It's not trivial.

YellowShed

I'm aware its not trivial. My current project could be summed up as 'just drop in a bike engine', something I know to be far far from trivial but the way some people talk you'd think they do it every other weekend.

So this is all research at the minute. Not expecting to start anything until next year either. It might turn out to make more sense just to buy an S-Type R but I do so love the involvement of a manual box and having something unique.

Mine's a manual so no worries about the gearbox not wanting to play, however I haven't looked into how much the getrag manual box can take, so it might play for long.

I haven't even started to look into ECU stuff as well but at worst case its standalone management which isn't the end of the world but obviously a lot of extra expense and hassle.

[renrut]

chuntington101 said:

very off topic here, but have you not thought about dropping the V8 in there?.... just thinking the jag parts bin/scrappers should be abale to donate a SH!T load of parts you need.... just an idea.

Chris.

Not that far off topic. And yes I've thought about it.

The jag 4.0 V8 is only 40bhp more than the V6, the bigger more powerful engines are a lot more expensive to get hold of. 40bhp is a fair gain but not huge compared to the effort as the V8 only came with the auto box and from what I can tell the engine ecu expects to see the autobox ecu, if it doesn't it won't come out to play.

This is all 3rd hand info btw, so if anyone knows to the contrary I'd be glad to hear about it as it would be the cheapest option for an easy power hike and probably a better base engine to build off.

[renrut]

chuntington101 said:

renrut said:

Not that far off topic. And yes I've thought about it.

The jag 4.0 V8 is only 40bhp more than the V6, the bigger more powerful engines are a lot more expensive to get hold of. 40bhp is a fair gain but not huge compared to the effort as the V8 only came with the auto box and from what I can tell the engine ecu expects to see the autobox ecu, if it doesn't it won't come out to play.

This is all 3rd hand info btw, so if anyone knows to the contrary I'd be glad to hear about it as it would be the cheapest option for an easy power hike and probably a better base engine to build off.

Sorry i have no idea on the jag. What else is the V8 used in? Maybe there is a similar car that will let you rob the ECU aswell? alternatively, maybe the V8 will bolt to the V6 box?

If I was to put the jag V8 in I'd like to reuse the existing manual box if I could. I don't know of any manual box cars that use the AJV8 engine so robbing an ECU or box from them isn't really an option. I know it was used in the Disco and the Range Rover but as far as I'm aware they were only autos as well. I know theres a place doing a manual conversion on XK8s so there probably is a way around it but it's not clear from their blurb if they reuse the jaguar ecu or go standalone.

I guess it comes down to smiles per pound. I've gotta look into the numbers really. I can buy an S-type R for £5-6K which will give 400bhp out the box, only marginally less mpg, but get stung for road tax (my jag is an X reg). And then its a question of if I'd get on with the auto box.

[renrut]

Thanks for that. I'd rather do away with the torque converter, otherwise I may as well let the box do the work.

There should be enough space by the manifolds around the V6, they fit a V6 TD engine in there so there should be enough space for the pipework etc which usually takes up more space than any individual item anyway.

Either way looks like I'll need to do a lot of research into the options with jag ECUs before I'll know if its a real goer or not.