KITCAR TRENDS YEAR 2008
Discussion
I've been thinking about, what major kitcar design trends are coming in the near future.
I've posted year 2008, because 3/4 years is how long it takes a car from design to production.
Of course a kitcar would take less, maybe 1/2 years from design to finished product, now taking into consideration this info, I was wondering what new cars and designs can the kit industry come up with?
Factor into the design equation, new regulations from the EU, and cleaner and more modern engines.
I've come up with a few ideas, but would like to hear from you guys, what new trends are in the pipeline.
Some of my thoughts
1) Bike engined cars , road and track.
I think Lotus seven replicas are having a new lease of life in the design with these BEC.
More kitcars will turn to BEC, especially for trackday cars.
I believe it to be a major trend by 2008, stricter road law enforcement on speed, will determine a new niche of enthusiats going to race tracks for speed thrills.
2) I believe the design of the 7 is about 50 yrs. old, or pretty soon it will be, is there a new kit that can take over this classic sportscar shape?
Is there going to be a modern seven in 2008?
3) Front wheel drive citycars are going to be the next major trend .Modern and revvy engines, hi-tech design will be mainstream for the masses.
A lot of these cars will be available for the kitcar manufacture to consider when designing the new kit. What should they design in 2008? or can they design for you ?
Thanks for your comments
Italo
I've posted year 2008, because 3/4 years is how long it takes a car from design to production.
Of course a kitcar would take less, maybe 1/2 years from design to finished product, now taking into consideration this info, I was wondering what new cars and designs can the kit industry come up with?
Factor into the design equation, new regulations from the EU, and cleaner and more modern engines.
I've come up with a few ideas, but would like to hear from you guys, what new trends are in the pipeline.
Some of my thoughts
1) Bike engined cars , road and track.
I think Lotus seven replicas are having a new lease of life in the design with these BEC.
More kitcars will turn to BEC, especially for trackday cars.
I believe it to be a major trend by 2008, stricter road law enforcement on speed, will determine a new niche of enthusiats going to race tracks for speed thrills.
2) I believe the design of the 7 is about 50 yrs. old, or pretty soon it will be, is there a new kit that can take over this classic sportscar shape?
Is there going to be a modern seven in 2008?
3) Front wheel drive citycars are going to be the next major trend .Modern and revvy engines, hi-tech design will be mainstream for the masses.
A lot of these cars will be available for the kitcar manufacture to consider when designing the new kit. What should they design in 2008? or can they design for you ?
Thanks for your comments
Italo
I also believe, that a new and modern Lotus seven will have a mid-engine layout, using a FWD engine.
I believe the first Elise to be a modern seven in concept, but maybe a little too expensive for the kit industry. Half the price, and you have a great kitcar for the many.
If someone can do that, then you will have the next kitcar winner for the comming years, and in my opinion a sales success.
A cheap and little FWD sportscar could also create a new niche in the kit industry.
We need to remember that younger people have grown up driving more fwd. cars than RWD..
They are more familiar with these cars on their daily drives then rwd sportscars.
I believe the first Elise to be a modern seven in concept, but maybe a little too expensive for the kit industry. Half the price, and you have a great kitcar for the many.
If someone can do that, then you will have the next kitcar winner for the comming years, and in my opinion a sales success.
A cheap and little FWD sportscar could also create a new niche in the kit industry.
We need to remember that younger people have grown up driving more fwd. cars than RWD..
They are more familiar with these cars on their daily drives then rwd sportscars.
It is true that Seven replicas are about 70% of the kitcar market, and that it will be really difficult to replace, because of its distinct sportscar heritage, but at some point you will have to find another donor car.
Which one can be as cheap as a Sierra donor?
Very few Rwd. donors are available that can be as cheap and plentifull ......
Maybe BMW power? MG/FORD V8? MERCEDES? JAGUAR? but they are not cheap to buy or to mantain.
I'm a little worried............................I guess I'll have to get my seven now!!!!!!
Which one can be as cheap as a Sierra donor?
Very few Rwd. donors are available that can be as cheap and plentifull ......
Maybe BMW power? MG/FORD V8? MERCEDES? JAGUAR? but they are not cheap to buy or to mantain.
I'm a little worried............................I guess I'll have to get my seven now!!!!!!
A 7 seater with an engine under their seats, sounds like a 1991 TOYOTA PREVIA!!!
I agree with you, a basic FWD. chassis with interchangeble body, would make a cheap and fun affordable new kitcar.
You could have your track day racer body for the weekend races, and then have your regular road car body for the working week.
I think that for a good fit and finish, cars other than roadsters are hard to achieve for small kitcar outfits.
Thats why Simon Saunders of ARIEL ATOM fame decided to make his car so bare.( maybe a little too much for my taste, but that could be the future in kitcar design)
You can keep the original chassis, and then supply a new and updated body design every 3/4 years to the owner.
I agree with you, a basic FWD. chassis with interchangeble body, would make a cheap and fun affordable new kitcar.
You could have your track day racer body for the weekend races, and then have your regular road car body for the working week.
I think that for a good fit and finish, cars other than roadsters are hard to achieve for small kitcar outfits.
Thats why Simon Saunders of ARIEL ATOM fame decided to make his car so bare.( maybe a little too much for my taste, but that could be the future in kitcar design)
You can keep the original chassis, and then supply a new and updated body design every 3/4 years to the owner.
people carrier that can drive properly:
the new SEAT ALTEA!
For the GTM:
Love the shape of this kit, very nice design, but asking prices are a little high, but then everything is relative.
A high price for me, could be a low price for someone else.
I guess the GTM LIBRA is going to be around in 2008, but any others??
the new SEAT ALTEA!
For the GTM:
Love the shape of this kit, very nice design, but asking prices are a little high, but then everything is relative.
A high price for me, could be a low price for someone else.
I guess the GTM LIBRA is going to be around in 2008, but any others??
Cymtriks
Very good points, and as they say, sometimes the basics are not there.
On the design or styling of the kits, a lot can be said and done, but it all boils down to costs.
Very few are willing to invest in something really different, because if it doesn't succed you are out .
It's easier to invest on a seven clone or cobra replica, they have about 70/75% of the kit market, and you are sure you are going to sell them, than invest money on new kit designs, where they failure rate is pretty high.
I also think that some of the kit manufactures have very little design skills, but good enogh engineering skills to create a decent kitcar. So its best to create a Replica for the design part, and then a chassis fo the engineering.
Fit and finish in most kits has inproved considerably in the past decade, but not quite yet on all counts.
Doors are always going to be difficult to make right, in fact I would try to design kitcars that would not use doors, but cut-away doors and jump in solutions. ( Seven, Ariel Atom, Dax Kamala, and others).
Easier to manufacture and engineer with limited costs.
Very good points, and as they say, sometimes the basics are not there.
On the design or styling of the kits, a lot can be said and done, but it all boils down to costs.
Very few are willing to invest in something really different, because if it doesn't succed you are out .
It's easier to invest on a seven clone or cobra replica, they have about 70/75% of the kit market, and you are sure you are going to sell them, than invest money on new kit designs, where they failure rate is pretty high.
I also think that some of the kit manufactures have very little design skills, but good enogh engineering skills to create a decent kitcar. So its best to create a Replica for the design part, and then a chassis fo the engineering.
Fit and finish in most kits has inproved considerably in the past decade, but not quite yet on all counts.
Doors are always going to be difficult to make right, in fact I would try to design kitcars that would not use doors, but cut-away doors and jump in solutions. ( Seven, Ariel Atom, Dax Kamala, and others).
Easier to manufacture and engineer with limited costs.
Cymtriks
I agree with most of your analysis, but I would not discount FWD design just yet.
I believe that the Midas Gold convertible, Lotus elan S2 of the 90's, where great handling Fwd sportscars.
Maybe some styling details needed improving, like bigger wheels on the Elan, and a few other things on the Midas, but they were very good cars dynamically.
I'm not a Fwd fan myself, but some great chassis have been designed with this layout.
Peugeot 205 GTI, Renault 5 GT Turbo? pocket rockets that could have been used for new sportscars by the kit industry.
I think that Mid-engine kits using FWD engines will be the future, but a niche a Fwd sportscars could make it if the styling is there................
Now the styling................oh dear where do we start?
Ferg is right, very few real designers have designed kitcars, most are done by the manufacturers themselves.
The Gtm Lybra, Rossa and others were designed by Richard Oakes, who I believe to be one of the great and unsung british designers.
I believe the moulds of the Caterham 21 to be still in their hands.
I liked the design, but Caterham has the same problem, Porsche has with the 911, everyone wants the Seven and only the Seven.
By the Way as a fun project, I'm working on a FWD design with a PH-mate, that is almost ready to be shown.................................a few more days!!! (it has taken me some time to fine tune the styling though.......)
I agree with most of your analysis, but I would not discount FWD design just yet.
I believe that the Midas Gold convertible, Lotus elan S2 of the 90's, where great handling Fwd sportscars.
Maybe some styling details needed improving, like bigger wheels on the Elan, and a few other things on the Midas, but they were very good cars dynamically.
I'm not a Fwd fan myself, but some great chassis have been designed with this layout.
Peugeot 205 GTI, Renault 5 GT Turbo? pocket rockets that could have been used for new sportscars by the kit industry.
I think that Mid-engine kits using FWD engines will be the future, but a niche a Fwd sportscars could make it if the styling is there................
Now the styling................oh dear where do we start?
Ferg is right, very few real designers have designed kitcars, most are done by the manufacturers themselves.
The Gtm Lybra, Rossa and others were designed by Richard Oakes, who I believe to be one of the great and unsung british designers.
I believe the moulds of the Caterham 21 to be still in their hands.
I liked the design, but Caterham has the same problem, Porsche has with the 911, everyone wants the Seven and only the Seven.
By the Way as a fun project, I'm working on a FWD design with a PH-mate, that is almost ready to be shown.................................a few more days!!! (it has taken me some time to fine tune the styling though.......)
Thanks Spartan Andy ! Not there yet but working on it..............!!
What do you think of body conversions? I know Banham has done some interesting work on this front, do not know about the quality of the kits, but could be a maybe cheaper way to rebody a modern car.
Italian design houses did this in the 60's, with a lot of Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Lancia, Maserati, Porsche and a few ferrari chassis.
I do have to say, that the Maserati and Ferrari chassis were always designed for the well off, but some great little sportscars turned out from Fiat 850 and 1000cc chassis, anyone remember ABARTH MONOMILLE ?
You have so much to choose from today
What do you think of body conversions? I know Banham has done some interesting work on this front, do not know about the quality of the kits, but could be a maybe cheaper way to rebody a modern car.
Italian design houses did this in the 60's, with a lot of Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Lancia, Maserati, Porsche and a few ferrari chassis.
I do have to say, that the Maserati and Ferrari chassis were always designed for the well off, but some great little sportscars turned out from Fiat 850 and 1000cc chassis, anyone remember ABARTH MONOMILLE ?
You have so much to choose from today
Spartan Andy,
If the pale blue was a concept car, then we are talking of the Alfa Romeo Nuvola.
Great looking Alfa Romeo concept, it had spaceframe chassis, V6 engine and a carbon fibre body.
Alfa Romeo was going to supply the complete chassis complete with engines, to any design house that asked, and you could taylor design a new body on top of it.
Your manufactures high end specialist/kit car.
The designers were Walter Da Silva and Wolfgang Egger.
After Alfa Romeo decided to cancel the project, Da Silva and Egger decided to leave Alfa Romeo after 20 yrs!!!!, both left and went to Seat.
He is now the new head of design at Audi,Lamborghini, Bentley.
The renessaince of Seat design, very Alfa in a lot of details, is due to him and a british designer called Steve Lewis.
Car magazine ran an article in 1996, were they supplied the design of the complete chassis of the Nuvola to a few design studios in Italy, the Uk and various freelance designers, and all came up with proposals.
Peter Stevens and Simon Saunders(Ariel Atom) presented also their very interesting renderings.
I hope I gave some interesting info on the Nuvola concept car.
The new Alfa Romeo 8C concept car is the again the work of Wolfgang Egger who came back to Alfa in 2001, a german designer, I think he is a talented designer.
If the pale blue was a concept car, then we are talking of the Alfa Romeo Nuvola.
Great looking Alfa Romeo concept, it had spaceframe chassis, V6 engine and a carbon fibre body.
Alfa Romeo was going to supply the complete chassis complete with engines, to any design house that asked, and you could taylor design a new body on top of it.
Your manufactures high end specialist/kit car.
The designers were Walter Da Silva and Wolfgang Egger.
After Alfa Romeo decided to cancel the project, Da Silva and Egger decided to leave Alfa Romeo after 20 yrs!!!!, both left and went to Seat.
He is now the new head of design at Audi,Lamborghini, Bentley.
The renessaince of Seat design, very Alfa in a lot of details, is due to him and a british designer called Steve Lewis.
Car magazine ran an article in 1996, were they supplied the design of the complete chassis of the Nuvola to a few design studios in Italy, the Uk and various freelance designers, and all came up with proposals.
Peter Stevens and Simon Saunders(Ariel Atom) presented also their very interesting renderings.
I hope I gave some interesting info on the Nuvola concept car.
The new Alfa Romeo 8C concept car is the again the work of Wolfgang Egger who came back to Alfa in 2001, a german designer, I think he is a talented designer.
Joe T said:
I think there will be more casualties for the kit car industry in 09,
The survivors will be ones will reasonably full order books now, or those that don't need to sell any cars for 18 months to survive.
Cheers
Joe T
I tend to agree with you, but what type of kitcars will make it through, the high end replicas? or other type of kits?The survivors will be ones will reasonably full order books now, or those that don't need to sell any cars for 18 months to survive.
Cheers
Joe T
Cheers
Italo
rhinochopig said:
fuoriserie said:
Joe T said:
I think there will be more casualties for the kit car industry in 09,
The survivors will be ones will reasonably full order books now, or those that don't need to sell any cars for 18 months to survive.
Cheers
Joe T
I tend to agree with you, but what type of kitcars will make it through, the high end replicas? or other type of kits?The survivors will be ones will reasonably full order books now, or those that don't need to sell any cars for 18 months to survive.
Cheers
Joe T
Cheers
Italo
A seven, a Cobra.........and ?
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