Brexit benefit to kit cars?
Discussion
It was Brussels that decided the UK must conform with European regulations and put all vehicle builders and manufacturers through the rigmarole of an IVA test. £450 a go too. But only £75 for a trailer.
My issue is not the test itself but the fact that none of the European Countries allow UK IVA'd cars to be road legal. Bizarre, the only way we can sell to France for instance is to IVA and register in the UK and then export a second hand car/trailer.
Certainly then, from my perspective as a kit car/mini caravan manufacturer I rather favour the idea of supporting Boris and his entourage..
My issue is not the test itself but the fact that none of the European Countries allow UK IVA'd cars to be road legal. Bizarre, the only way we can sell to France for instance is to IVA and register in the UK and then export a second hand car/trailer.
Certainly then, from my perspective as a kit car/mini caravan manufacturer I rather favour the idea of supporting Boris and his entourage..
Equus said:
Yes they do. Visit this year's 24 Heure du Mans if you want to see the proof.
Without IVA and EU membership, you won't even be able to export UK registered cars. Companies like Lotus and Morgan won't have access to a low-volume type approval system that allows them to homologate cars for the UK and EU in one go.
There's not even any guarantee that UK registered cars would be allowed to visit mainland Europe for things like a trip to Le Mans, the Nurburgring or the Alps without significant bureaucracy being put in the way.
oh that is good news, I will start selling to France in the morning.Without IVA and EU membership, you won't even be able to export UK registered cars. Companies like Lotus and Morgan won't have access to a low-volume type approval system that allows them to homologate cars for the UK and EU in one go.
There's not even any guarantee that UK registered cars would be allowed to visit mainland Europe for things like a trip to Le Mans, the Nurburgring or the Alps without significant bureaucracy being put in the way.
Unfortunate quote from EQUUS below, where the kit cars to Europe point is completely missed;
"The fact that your business model cannot sustain proper certification, to demonstrate an appropriate level of safety and efficiency for sale to the public, is not something you can expect either the EU's or the UK Government to bail you out on."
I should perhaps point out that IVA is the only route for conformity of kit cars.
Type approval applies to low volume identical cars and not kits built at home.
Upon a successful IVA test an IAC is (not MAC) provided.
An IAC is not accepted anywhere apart from UK.
IVA applications costs £199 for low volume and £450 for amateure.
Low volume type approval is no use what so ever for a firm selling kits.
Instead let us consider the high quality IVA-able products offered by the UK kit car industry who are unable to sell kits to European Countries who do not allow the huge potential for home car builders to flourish on their own turf, but do inflict their rules upon us in the UK.
"The fact that your business model cannot sustain proper certification, to demonstrate an appropriate level of safety and efficiency for sale to the public, is not something you can expect either the EU's or the UK Government to bail you out on."
I should perhaps point out that IVA is the only route for conformity of kit cars.
Type approval applies to low volume identical cars and not kits built at home.
Upon a successful IVA test an IAC is (not MAC) provided.
An IAC is not accepted anywhere apart from UK.
IVA applications costs £199 for low volume and £450 for amateure.
Low volume type approval is no use what so ever for a firm selling kits.
Instead let us consider the high quality IVA-able products offered by the UK kit car industry who are unable to sell kits to European Countries who do not allow the huge potential for home car builders to flourish on their own turf, but do inflict their rules upon us in the UK.
fuoriserie said:
Thank you posting that, you are right it is interesting to see how it is said the likes of Nissan, Aston Martin, JLR, Toyota, Rolls Royce and Ford could be impacted upon if Britain exited. Not a mention of the word KIT anywhere in that document, but obviously UK gov are not going to concern themselves with kit car manufacturers in preference of the major automotive industry employers. Maybe politics is for another forum, sorry for bringing it up.Equus said:
Top quality brown-nosing, but it has what to do with Brexit, exactly? 
I suppose that switching to caravan manufacture is one way of avoiding IVA...
"switching to caravan manufacturing"? Not sure where you heard that. I should point out that Brussels inflicted trailer IVA upon the UK. Sold 3 Exopods to a dealer in Holland, no IVA required there! Another example of one rule for them and one rule for us.I suppose that switching to caravan manufacture is one way of avoiding IVA...
Good news, IVA for trailers is only £75. This fee is included in the Exopod price. We do not sell tow bars.
It appears that selling caravans to the rest of Europe is OK but the other member countries do not accept home built kit cars clearly demonstrating a them and us approach. They used to call it a common market.
It appears that selling caravans to the rest of Europe is OK but the other member countries do not accept home built kit cars clearly demonstrating a them and us approach. They used to call it a common market.
Good to see that Eco-Exo has been mentioned, I have not seen one for many years but I hear the business is for sale. An opportunity arises here for anyone wishing to take part in ensuring new and varied products are offered for sale as kits. The Eco-Exo is a very light low powered trike, a commuter based on a 250cc Scooter, massive MPG.
The use of the steering axis rose joint has presumably been tested and proven as fit for the purpose by the firm that used to make it and VOSA, but looks easy to change if the buyer of the business desires.
So step forward if kit car manufacturing floats your boat, failing that please consider encouraging others to jump in and provide new products for us to enjoy. Positive and supportive posts on here may help encourage the diversity of vehicles to be offered in the future.
In terms of EU membership, we have our gov with their rules added to and influenced by Brussels and so it's not an easy game we play.
The legislation is complex, and often quoted partially or incorrectly or out of context.
We guide all our customers to ensure they are legal UK motorists, but we only have a handful of customers in the rest of Europe, what a waste and how frustrating for our visitors to Stoneleigh from over seas. I was asked loads of times if our cars are homologated, not something that is going to happen I am afraid, not cost effective, and not applicable to home build kit cars as previously mentioned.
The use of the steering axis rose joint has presumably been tested and proven as fit for the purpose by the firm that used to make it and VOSA, but looks easy to change if the buyer of the business desires.
So step forward if kit car manufacturing floats your boat, failing that please consider encouraging others to jump in and provide new products for us to enjoy. Positive and supportive posts on here may help encourage the diversity of vehicles to be offered in the future.
In terms of EU membership, we have our gov with their rules added to and influenced by Brussels and so it's not an easy game we play.
The legislation is complex, and often quoted partially or incorrectly or out of context.
We guide all our customers to ensure they are legal UK motorists, but we only have a handful of customers in the rest of Europe, what a waste and how frustrating for our visitors to Stoneleigh from over seas. I was asked loads of times if our cars are homologated, not something that is going to happen I am afraid, not cost effective, and not applicable to home build kit cars as previously mentioned.
Edited by Stuart Mills on Wednesday 4th May 11:32
Edited by Stuart Mills on Wednesday 4th May 11:32
Edited by Stuart Mills on Wednesday 4th May 11:33
TOW BARS, please see the IVA manual, here you will see the Couplings section, it confirms that towing devices are permitted on IVA'd vehicles.
BOTTOM BALL JOINTS, in very common use is a Maxi ball joint, held down by 2 8mm 8.8 bolts for use on a car that could be say 750kgs with a V8. I have never heard of one failing.
With regards to the Eco-Exo I would prefer to see ball joints secured in the manner they were designed to be. But if one considers the all up weight of the Eco-Exo as being around 240kgs inc driver then the 2 12.9 bolts that look to be either 10mm or 12mm would appear on face value to be adequate although not mechanically keyed in. But then assuming 80kg per corner, that is less than a plastic garden wheel barrow is designed for.
That said there are many other ball joints available on the market that would drop straight on the Eco-Exo so hopefully if it goes back into production this area will be improved. Remember the business is for sale. Contact Qdos cars.
Anyone who feels they can do better should start a kit car business, I recommend it, it's great fun, very rewarding but not always as financially viable as one would have hoped, hence the lack of new products and regular comments that we need more.
BOTTOM BALL JOINTS, in very common use is a Maxi ball joint, held down by 2 8mm 8.8 bolts for use on a car that could be say 750kgs with a V8. I have never heard of one failing.
With regards to the Eco-Exo I would prefer to see ball joints secured in the manner they were designed to be. But if one considers the all up weight of the Eco-Exo as being around 240kgs inc driver then the 2 12.9 bolts that look to be either 10mm or 12mm would appear on face value to be adequate although not mechanically keyed in. But then assuming 80kg per corner, that is less than a plastic garden wheel barrow is designed for.
That said there are many other ball joints available on the market that would drop straight on the Eco-Exo so hopefully if it goes back into production this area will be improved. Remember the business is for sale. Contact Qdos cars.
Anyone who feels they can do better should start a kit car business, I recommend it, it's great fun, very rewarding but not always as financially viable as one would have hoped, hence the lack of new products and regular comments that we need more.
Our tow bar supplier includes Exocet as part of their approved vehicle fitment for their Fiesta MK3 units. This has taken a few months to arrange and was not cheap either. The Exocet in the picture is not a car, it is a mock up, no diff, engine and 2 wheels.
It should be made clear however that tow bars are not sold for retro fitting to Exocet's as the appropriate brackets for mounting them have to be approved as part of an IVA test and a declaration of train weight be submitted upon registration of vehicles. This info is also recorded on the manufacturers plate.
It is kind of you all to point out the requirement for EU tow bars but rest assured we operate within the law.
It should be made clear however that tow bars are not sold for retro fitting to Exocet's as the appropriate brackets for mounting them have to be approved as part of an IVA test and a declaration of train weight be submitted upon registration of vehicles. This info is also recorded on the manufacturers plate.
It is kind of you all to point out the requirement for EU tow bars but rest assured we operate within the law.
Equus said:
CanAm said:
Is that Exocet a 3-wheeler? Look at the back end.... I'm using my phone, so apologies if it looks ok full size.
It shouldn't be but I can see what you mean. 
If it's engineered like the Eco-Exo, there's every chance that one has fallen off, but you'd have thought they'd have noticed?
Equus said:
No, you're OK: the front one just can't be seen because there's something in the way.
It's a bit like the perspective thing: you know... small. far away. small. far away.
Funny thing at the back is that it looks like there's daylight showing through where the wheel (and diff) should be. Bad photoshop, perhaps - the cockpit looks like it could be missing a steering wheel, too? Or is lack of a steering wheel a 'safety feature' to prevent the whole deathtrap being driven in the first place?
The "car" shown below is a mock up, but we all know that, lots of important bits missing It's a bit like the perspective thing: you know... small. far away. small. far away.
Funny thing at the back is that it looks like there's daylight showing through where the wheel (and diff) should be. Bad photoshop, perhaps - the cockpit looks like it could be missing a steering wheel, too? Or is lack of a steering wheel a 'safety feature' to prevent the whole deathtrap being driven in the first place?
New products for the kit car(avan) scene, wayhay![url]
|http://thumbsnap.com/1rGymry8[/urlGemaeden said:
Do you know what the rules are for electric cars. I mean does zero emissions equal zero tax, and how is the hp rated? Also are there similar rules for motor bikes and trikes?
The EU has effectively put a stop to electric kit cars as test fees are now enormous. The DVSA state that all EV's (class M1) submitted for IVA are now covered under class N1 (commercial vehicles).
In order to meet EU regs we have to submit the vehicles for laboratory testing at Mira or Millbrook. N1 contains nothing specific relating to cars. Tests have to be overseen by officials from the VCA. Costs are about £6000 assuming the car is submitted in a spec that is accepted, I didn't manage to get an acceptable spec.
Logic of course tells us that we cannot have cars going around that may catch fire or electrocute someone but even if a vehicle was built to the standards required (what ever they are) then it would still cost a few K before being allowed the privileged of being registered for an IVA test.
If we all voted OUT I guess nothing would change and the rules would remain in force.
One thing is for sure, rules are changing and getting tighter. Ask VOSA/DVSA why and the answer contains 2 letters, E and U.
Fastpedeller said:
MEV KIT CARS said:
The EU has effectively put a stop to electric kit cars as test fees are now enormous.
The DVSA state that all EV's (class M1) submitted for IVA are now covered under class N1 (commercial vehicles).
In order to meet EU regs we have to submit the vehicles for laboratory testing at Mira or Millbrook. N1 contains nothing specific relating to cars. Tests have to be overseen by officials from the VCA. Costs are about £6000 assuming the car is submitted in a spec that is accepted, I didn't manage to get an acceptable spec.
Logic of course tells us that we cannot have cars going around that may catch fire or electrocute someone but even if a vehicle was built to the standards required (what ever they are) then it would still cost a few K before being allowed the privileged of being registered for an IVA test.
If we all voted OUT I guess nothing would change and the rules would remain in force.
One thing is for sure, rules are changing and getting tighter. Ask VOSA/DVSA why and the answer contains 2 letters, E and U.
Does that also apply to amateur built? (as well as pros like yourself) - I understand someone is currently converting a Quantum to electric?The DVSA state that all EV's (class M1) submitted for IVA are now covered under class N1 (commercial vehicles).
In order to meet EU regs we have to submit the vehicles for laboratory testing at Mira or Millbrook. N1 contains nothing specific relating to cars. Tests have to be overseen by officials from the VCA. Costs are about £6000 assuming the car is submitted in a spec that is accepted, I didn't manage to get an acceptable spec.
Logic of course tells us that we cannot have cars going around that may catch fire or electrocute someone but even if a vehicle was built to the standards required (what ever they are) then it would still cost a few K before being allowed the privileged of being registered for an IVA test.
If we all voted OUT I guess nothing would change and the rules would remain in force.
One thing is for sure, rules are changing and getting tighter. Ask VOSA/DVSA why and the answer contains 2 letters, E and U.
If the Quantum is already registered then the converter may get away with it but he will need to change the fuel type on the V5 to get free road tax and at that point they could ask for an IVA. But you cannot apply for an IVA without a laboratory test report from an approved firm that is overseen by VCA officials to be to a standard which we are kept in the dark about.
The TUV standards for EV's are available, I assume we need to meet those. Either way EV kit cars are history thanks to the EU for introducing ECE R100. Unless the builder has very deep pockets which rather negates the point of saving money on fuel.
Gassing Station | Kit Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff