Windscreen vs aeroscreen on a kit car

[Jukebag]

At the moment I'm trying to sell (have been for about 7 months) a self built Tiger Cat. Despite a few enquiries I've no luck in selling it or even anyone to viewing it. I suspect some will say I'm asking too much for it. The car dosent have a full windscreen only an aeroscreen, and no wipers and wiper motor and no hood either. Would having no windscreen put people off?. I've seen a few similar cars with just aeroscreens, one a Caterham that had no problems being sold to a dealer (for about 40 grand). I suppose it depends what you want the car for. It was my dads car and he always insisted he didn't need an hood or windscreen (according to him, there was no room for a wiper motor under the bonnet because the engine that most of the room up) and felt there are enough Tigers, Robin Hoods etc that don't have any. The CSR is just sitting there doing nothing with just a car cover it, and I've no use for it.

Edited by Jukebag on Monday 29th January 11:53

[Jukebag]

annodomini2 said:

Give you a packet of Hob nobs for it?

Issues:
1. People are very selective over kit cars, either it has exactly what they want or if it doesn't they'd either look for another one or build their own kit.
2. Wrong time of year to sell, best time is end of March to start of May.
3. Aeroscreen will put some off, i.e. having to wear full face helmet every time you drive the thing.
4. Colour is also very important.
5. Quality of the build will also come into question, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with yours (I haven't seen it), but some will want a factory built car.
6. Kit cars are a small market, it's not a shopping hatch.
7. This is where price comes into it, either sell it cheap if you want a quick sale, or wait for your asking price, but you may be waiting a very long time.

Thanks for the points there.

I do agree people can be choosey over build quality and if it's factory made, but considering the ad will state "self built" rather than factory built, then it's obviously not what they're looking for if you only want a factory built car.

Colour, well the car is as black as Darth Vader. I suspect most want those gawdy green, yellow and orange colours that are common on Caterham type kit cars.

I agree a windscreen is preferred, but the issue of wind in your face has never been a serious issue without an helmet. And I agree it isn't a shopping trolley car, but the same can be said for Caterhams, Lotus 7s etc that people seem to pay silly money for, and yes I know they're not kit cars per se but they still look and drive the same.

And yes time of year for selling is a big factor for such a car.

[Jukebag]

Yes it is the same Tiger that's on carandclassic. It would be best putting it through an MOT, though I cannot guarantee if it will pass as it has been off road late 2016. At the moment I haven't had time to deal with the car due to other commitments. The rest of the family seem to urgently want it out of the way.

[Jukebag]

spyder dryver said:

Good points to my eyes...
Good engine choice.
Nice seats

Bad points...
No MOT, can't be tested properly or driven home.
Sierra subframe/ trailing arm setup. Wheelbase looks odd.
'Orrible dash
" wheels.
Cycle wings.
No air filters!
No screen. Would be OK for a track car but the track car buyer might not want an E1.

Filters, wheels, wings could be sorted and wouldn't stop me from buying the car.
The Sierra setup and lack of MOT would.

Having said all this, get an MOT on it and stick close to your 5K.
There are few cars at that price with a Duratec in. It must go like stink!
Without a test drive you cannot show off the cars strongest point.


All IMHO.

Thanks for that.

I'm no expert on such cars, as it was my dads car, but I don't know why the wheelbase looks odd, cycle wings look bad, trailing arm setup and sierra subframe. I would say the dash isn't all that bad, in fact IMO it looks nice and some have remarked how nice it looks. One chap who came to view a Scimitar I was selling seemed more interested in the Tiger after he saw it, though likely the price and no MOT put him off. Again, I suppose those points are down to personal choice than anything else.

I can understand why some choose those bright colours, but with this car it was never going to be driven in extreme weather conditions, on a track, in the dark, or on rough terrain except in dry conditions in the summer on country roads; yes boring some will say, but if you're getting on a bit it's not something you'd want to be doing. The car has never been thrashed about like some owners like to do with them.

[Jukebag]

I agree it does need an MOT otherwise no one will likely view and buy. Though the Scimitar I sold a few months back didn't have an MOT, and the person who bought it trailered it back. I was constantly told there'd be a heap of things wrong with it and wouldn't pass, would cost a fortune to put right (even though it hadn't stood very long), so I lowered to price to reflect no MOT. I later discovered the car passed with no advisories (according to the dvla), so I was somewhat peeved as I could've sold the car for a little more if I hadn't listened to someone's advice that it wasn't gonna be worth putting through an MOT because there would lots of issues which would cost a fortune to put right

Edited by Jukebag on Tuesday 30th January 12:06

[Jukebag]

I didn't admit it's the wrong colour, in fact I find nothing wrong with the colour. And I won't be wrapping it because that'll be pointless. It isnt the best time of year to sell, of course, but family members are pushing me to get shut asap because they don't want it sitting idle too long and need space for another vehicle.

[Jukebag]

I appreciate the much needed advice, thanks.

I can't comment on the sierra diff, etc as I have no expertise in that kind of thing. The lack of a windscreen doesn't really affect the driveability and visibility much imo, just a little bit more "wind in your hair" so to speak, though as a passenger, doing 40mph (which in a car like that looks like you're doing 70) it does somewhat take the breath out of you and you come back with your hair froze to your head:-). I don't think the car would've been nearly as exhilarating (and fun) to be in with a windscreen.

Edited by Jukebag on Wednesday 31st January 20:40

[Jukebag]

I agree an MOT is essential. I don't think eBay would be my ideal route to be honest, I'd rather just stick to a good old car site or dedicated kit car forum. The Locost Builders forum sounds a good place; I've seen one or two Tigers on there going for around what I want, though admittedly look in better nick. The Tiger I have originally had a Pinto, but due to a local garage trying to fleece more money, the engine was just left with them and, having learned of how good and efficient a Duratec engine (and quite uncommon from what I heard) was, it was decided a Duratec would a suitable replacement.

At least the Tiger got some use, though never covered many miles. My dads cousins son was the inspiration for building our Tiger, as he had himself built one. A very nice example with a Pinto, though I heard not too long ago that he hasn't used the car in 10 years and was just sitting in his garage. Why do people build them, all that hard work and money spent, fully roadworthy, yet never bother driving them?. I suppose to some it's just an hobby.

Edited by Jukebag on Tuesday 6th February 11:02

Edited by Jukebag on Tuesday 6th February 11:05

[Jukebag]

Just wondering if anyone knows if i should be wary of enquiries from overseas?. Lately alot of the enquiries about the car seem to be from foreign emails rather than from the UK. Is there any reason to be cautious about?. One email i received seemed very vague and brief, saying cash awaits amongst other mundane questions like what year the Q plate is.

[Jukebag]

I agree about the engine looking squeezed in. It's likely why there was apparently no room for a wiper motor, or so I was told. The car originally had a Pinto; the Pinto was left with a garage because they were trying to fleece more money, so the alternative was to go for a Duratec, of which I heard were quite rare at the time but efficient and powerful.

Tbh, I hadn't really taken much notice of the side exhaust being on the drivers side. Personally I don't think the silver dash looks awful, but that's just my opinion. I don't understand why so many would find a Tiger Cat off-putting. At the end of the day Tiger's, and Robin Hoods, are catered for the entry level budget-minded kit car builder, replicating the style of the Caterham and Lotus 7.

Edited by Jukebag on Tuesday 20th February 21:16

[Jukebag]

Reply to an old post.

Regarding the Tiger Cat I have for sale, a few weeks ago I finally got round to putting it through an MOT, of which it failed the first time of which got sorted soon after. Passed second time with a few advisories. The MOT hasn't made any difference as, apart from two email enquiries (mainly wanting to know if the seats would move back or were bolted from underneath, and info re advisories and more photos, which I forwarded to them, and someone from overseas who seemed interested), apart from that I've had no real luck, and not one person come to even view the car.

I suspect the price is putting them off, but I don't understand why as there seems to be plenty of Tiger E1s for sale asking for the same money (the Tiger Owners Forum had a couple, some which have sold). Or maybe the colour is a big turn off, or the lack of a full windscreen and soft top.

Quite a few high powered kit car (and classic) sellers seem to go a little OTT in the ads describing and listing all of the things it has on it, where such a part came from, how much BHP it does and so on.

[Jukebag]

https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C877442

[Jukebag]

Thanks for the tips, but I don't see how the car doesn't look modern; there are surely plenty of similar styled Tigers and similar such kit cars about, some I've seen with just an aeroscreen. Spending £100 here £100 there just to "improve" the look and make it more appealing (probably to some 20 plus Caterham wannabe who wants to thrash it) I don't think would be worth it. I agree the colour wouldve better with something like a yellow,silver, or black/silver, green, rather than all black, but I didn't make the car. The wheel arches, to me any way, are erelevant and don't tarnish the look of the car, but most kits of this model do seem to have cycle wing type arches rather than the one I'm selling have. I've no idea why those style were chosen over the more common type.

[Jukebag]

I don't really want to fork out more money on the car especially when I want to sell it and have no use for the car myself nor anyone else I know, but if those points are what's deterring people then maybe certain things may need altering, certainly I would say with the reflectors as there does appear to be far too many; why my dad placed so many of them in various places I'll never know. Not sure about the tyres, and to be honest I have necer noticed them being mismatched (again I've no idea why they don't match).

That type of aeroscreens do look odd on such a car - i agree they suit a classic like a Morgan, but I suspect the reason why he didn't opt for the ones you have on your Westfield is because he probably felt ther'd be too much turbulence and wind in your face whilst driving it, and besides, due to the size of the Duratec, there was no space for any motor for the wipers, which meant there couldn't be a windscreen fitted. Again why he chose such a large engine that took up that much space, with no room for a wiper motor (from what he said) I've no idea. It was never intended to be driven in bad weather or rain anyway, so wipers and a windscreen and soft top weren't required.

I'm not 100% sure but I think the car was put on a dyno (there is a chart I have, but not sure if it's related to that).

Edited by Jukebag on Tuesday 3rd July 20:13

Edited by Jukebag on Tuesday 3rd July 20:20

[Jukebag]

The tyres not matching is probably because at some point one needed replacing and a replacement tyre was fitted but not one that matched. Whether these were hard to source tyres I don't know, but its odd they weren't matching. Some of the older pics I have show all round matching tyres on the car. I've no idea where the original matching tyres came from. I could replace the arches with the ones mentioned, but it take a lot of faffing about trying to remove the ones already on. They'll be tightly sealed on in some way, probably leaving a mark underneath.

[Jukebag]

Thanks for the advice, it's very much appreciated. I guess you're right about the price that's putting people off. I have thought about lowering a little, maybe a couple of hundred. When people say to me "you'll only get about 2 grand for that", it doesn't help matters and makes me think they know more about its worth than I do, which they probably don't.

I have the car advertised on the Tiger Owners Club website, had one (I think) email enqury from someone not too far away, but when I sent them a few requested photos and info about advisories, I never heard anything back. A chap from overseas, whom seemed interested in the car, was due to come and view it, but had to cancel at the last minute.

Regarding those smaller aeroscreens that you say would look better than the classic looking ones, but I do recall the Tiger having those fitted when the car had been fully built but wasn't at that stage on the road. Why they were changed for the type it has on now I don't know, only that maybe they don't look right or that they limited visibility. Where they are now I haven't the foggiest, they could've been swapped or could still be lying around in the garage.

[Jukebag]

You're right about it being a mismatch of old styling and it being modern with the bonnet hump. Why it was made that way I haven't the foggiest, only that maybe he wanted it to look different and stand out from the crowd. The indicator lights above the wheel arches remind of ones off a VW Beetle, and so imo they don't don't suit the car. I've no idea where the various parts, lights, aeroscreen, etc came from, but I presume from Car Builder Solutions, etc.

The advisories are;
Play in steering rack inner joint
Brake disc worn, pitted or scored, but not seriously weakened Front (nearside offside)

[Jukebag]

I have lowered the price, but I've still had barely any responses just the odd "is the car still for sale?" message and nothing back after replying yes.. Strange. I had more enquiries about the car months ago when the car had no MOT, now an MOT and in the middle of a baking heatwave and ditto.

When I first advertised it I tried a few kit car dealers, but I was put off when they said the best they could offer, max, was 3 grand.

I would change some of the things suggested, but people I know like family, partner and friends advised me not to as I'll be losing out and won't make much back.

If there's anything that's putting people off it it's the lack of a removable hood and full windscreen, I would say..

[Jukebag]

I dunno what anyone else thinks, but this really caught my eye. I think the colour is great, and I'm surprised there aren't many other kit cars of this type with the same colour. If I could change the Tiger to any colour, this would probably be the one.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Westfield-SE-1-6-X-Flow...

I was browsing on the car builder solutions website and was amazed how cheap some obf the stuff is on there: wings mirrors seals, seat belts and other parts and accessories for not a lot of money. Gear lever gaitors for about a tenner; compare those prices for any classic car like an E-Type (about 50 quid). No wonder there are lots of these types of kits about.

[Jukebag]

Can anyone tell me what is so bad about having a Q plate on a kit car?. I read kit car ads where the seller states things like "downsides: it has a Q plafe". So what?. So I'm gonna let a perfectly good running kit car go for pretty much nothing because the Q place is a turn off?.