a few westfield questions...

[dern]

Still looking for a new car to replace my, now sold, tvr s3...

Looking through a few westfield ads very few are advertised as having LSDs fitted. Am I right in assuming that most cars fitted with IRS are sierra based and those without IRS are escort based? If this is the case am I right in assuming that LSDs are freely available for these types of suspension and if so are they suitable for the westfield application or am I looking at an expensive quaiffe LSD should I wish to convert one to LSD?

Also, many are advertised as xflow and some as cvh and I've read that the 1600/1700 xflow is the engine to have and the cvh is definitely not. What are the outwards differences between the engine so that I can tell a xflow advertised car is not a mistakenly described cvh car?

I've read that the vx 2.0l engine is a belter but is it worth paying an extra 2k for a car for the engine over a xflow or would I be wiser getting a xflow car and playing with that for a bit and converting it to a vx at a later date?

Lastly, does anyone have a westfield with a competition roll bar fitted that can let me know if the standard weather gear will fit over it.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Mark

[dern]

I know the sierra xr4i and xr4x4 had LSD's which should fit in or bolt on (not sure if they're 7" or 7.5"). Should be quite cheap too!

Thanks.

What do you mean by 7"/7.5"? Flange size?

I had the same discussion while trying to find an LSD for my tvr s3 which was essentially sierra based but there was a lot less room in a tvr and changing the diff meant tanking the body off which wasn't for the faint hearted. The issue was the flange size was different. If this is the case in this case too I'd presumably get around that by getting a new driveshaft.

Regards,

Mark

>> Edited by dern on Thursday 12th June 14:05

[dern]

Thanks very much for all the information everyone...

juansolo said: SEi's can also have an Escort diff. The original SEi's utilisted the front portion of the Escort diff housing and a bespoke aluminum cover on the back. There are a couple of advantages to doing this: It's a lot lighter than the Sierra diff and it has a lot more CWP options. However the LSD's are a lot more money. Where you can pick up an Sierra viscous LSD out of a Sierra 4x4 for around 100 to 250 notes depending on age/condition. You are talking 350 (doing it yourself) to £500 notes (getting someone else to do it and change the bearings while in there) to fit either a Quaife Auto Torque Biasing Diff or a Tran-X plate LSD.

My budget is about 5k so I'm guessing the cars will be circa 90-91 vintage. How would I tell the difference between the sierra and escort diff by looking at them. My concern is that a lot of these cars are bought by people who use them 2 or 3 times a year and don't really know what they have and I'd like to know what I'm buying before getting the car rather than finding out afterwards.

Don't rule out live axle cars either. Unless you are buying it for road use only consider live axle. On track there really isn't much in it and they are lot lighter. Plus there are a few of us out there that actually prefer the balance of the live axle cars

I'm quite happy with a live axle car. I'll mainly be using it on the road for fun and occasional commuting (I know it's not ideal but I normally use a fireblade so it will be comparatively luxurious) and my first forays into trackdays.

(we have two of them, one of which is for sale in the classifieds )

All the cars in the ads would appear to be outside of my budget. I'd like a vx engine but I'm happy to get a xflow and then modify it to take a vx or a bike engine when I'm ready and have the money.

As for engines, I wrote a hooooge thing on all the options which still might be a page or two back in these forums but a quick summary follows:

The cars within my budget are predominantly xflow, cvh and pinto. From what I've read the xflow is the one to have from those 3 with the pinto coming a heavy second. What I don't want to do is buy a cvh car mistakenly thinking it's a xflow so how would I tell by looking at the engine whether it's a xflow or a cvh?

Thanks,

Mark

[dern]

iguana said: Blimey dern make ya mind up, one minute its Porker 944's you are considering, the next MR2 turbos and now Westies

I know mate, the problem is I've had no weekends free to look at cars but time to surf, mull, get confused, mull again... the money's burning a hole I can tell you

xflow has thin/narrow rocker cover is like the upturned hull of a narrow boat- approx 2 inches across and 2 inches high, CVH is a huge rocker cover approx 6 inches across and pretty flat. Both rocker covers are obuously as wide as the head.

Nice one, cheers.

Regards,

Mark

[dern]

Thanks for the pictures chaps.

I've found a car that I really like the look of and I'm planning to see it very soon. It has a couple of 'features' I'm somewhat concerned over...

1) It doesn't have a LSD. It has a 3.9 open english diff. I understand the theory of what an LSD does but will it make a massive difference? Will I have fun in this car on the road and track or is it essential that I fit a Quaiffe ATB or similar? Is the Quaiffe a simple bolt in affair or is there setting up to do on it (I'd rather do this sort of thing myself you see)?

2) It doesn't appear to have an RAC roll bar. I'm not too bothered about this and will swap it over as and when.

Cheers,

Mark

[dern]

annodomini2 said:

Depends on the usage of the vehicle and the engine fitted, if you're just using it for the road, then it should be ok, if the power to weight ratio isn't too high. Easiest way to tell is take it for a test drive, if it gives a lot of torque steer under load then maybe you should consider an LSD or ATB.

The pertinant details from the advert are...

Live axle (Escort) open 3.89 diff
Four speed box
Spax adjustable shocks
Minilite type wheels (ford PCD) with 4 new Yoko A539s
1696cc Xflow, beleived Roger King build
711m block
Piper 285 fast road cam (2000 - 7500rpm)
Steel rocker gear with double springs
Shallow, baffled ally sump
Twin 40 DCOE Webers with K&Ns
Lumenition electronic ignition with magnecor leads
Westfield stainless 4-1 exhaust

...if that's any use.

It looks the business but I'm a bit at sea with the above. It all sounds like the right kind of stuff to me but I haven't had a x-flow car before.

Cheers,

Mark

[dern]

juansolo said:

As for the LSD in an English axle, your main two choices are a Quaife ATB which is the way to go if the car is primarily a road car or a Tran-X plate LSD if it's a track car.

Sorry, what I meant was is an LSD essential? Basically the car I'm looking at doesn't have one and the cost of the ATB (500?) is 10% of the car. Is this really as essential a purchase as I believe or will I have just as much fun but a bit slower with an open diff?

The car, btw, is samcooke's car on the westfield forum.

Regards,

Mark

PS - The green car looks the business

[dern]

juansolo said:

I would also warn you that when the bug strikes, you *will* end up spending a lot of money on the car fitting such things. It's the nature of the beast. Buy wisely in the first place and you'll save money in the long run. For example don't buy an X-flow thinking that you'll swap it for a Zetec/XE in the future as the cost of an engine conversion is WAY higher than you'd think. Best to pay the extra and get a Zetec/XE first.

Thanks for the advice. There seems to be a steady market for xflow westfields so my thinking is to spend 5k now (all I can afford to be honest) and see how I get on with this type of car. If I don't get hooked or it conflicts too much with the time I spend riding my bike I can always sell it without too much trouble and if I really love it I can still always move the xflow car on and invest in something a bit quicker or more modern next year.

Thanks,

Mark

[dern]

Well... I've test driven a xflow car and it blew me away. So I bought it

Thanks for all the advice.

Mark

>> Edited by dern on Saturday 21st June 00:38

[dern]

Picked it up today and drove it home (Newbury) from Cambridge. Mad car, works better than I thought on the motorway, drinks like a fish, massive fun on the back roads.

Didn't even mind (too much) when it broke it's throttle cable on the M11

Mark

[dern]

madgw1ck said:

I looked at a Westfield yesterday with a view to buying, as I'd been told it was a '91 build, but it turned out to be an '89 build of an '88 chassis, so therefore a pre-litigation car, am I right..?

Not necessarily. Mine is an 88 registered in 89 and it isn't a pre-lit.

madgw1ck said:

One possible problem with the car is the fact that at the moment, I don't fit in it... Please, someone tell me that pedal box is a piece of pi$$ to relocate!

I've been looking at this also. Potentially the peddles can move backwards about half an inch but I started wearing shoes which a much thinner sole and that pretty much solved my problem.

madgw1ck said:

Also, I couldn't help but notice the appalling lack of ground clearance under the sump (Lotus TC engine btw). I've also been looking at the TVR S series, which in comparison has good clearance! At least on an S, it's the exhaust which takes the knock, rather than the sump... Is dry-sumping a practical proposition?

You can also get (or have made) a shallow baffled sump which is what is fitted on mine. I've had no problems with ground clearance whereas my S3 hit the ground all over the shop. When you say that the first thing that hits the floor is the exhaust on an S3 this means is reality that you fairly frequently have to reset the joints on the downpipes, buy new downpipes and get the silencer box lead edge rewelded in my experience. Also the two cars are chalk and cheese - depends what you want.

Regards,

Mark

[dern]

madgw1ck said:

Hi Mark, thanks for that. The problem with the pedals is that they're too close, not too far away for me. I found it impossible to get my legs anywhere near straight and the steering wheel was fairly firmly wedged between my knees.

Same here, hence the thin soled shoes. You can also get a smaller steering wheel and move the wheel up if your handy with the spanners.

madgw1ck said:

I agree the two cars are very different, but what they have in common is the 'fun' factor. I'm just looking for something to replace the bike I've just sold. Definitely not looking for a 'sensible' car.

Go for the westfield then imo. I found the tvr a bit tame after the bike.

Benfits of the westfield are... cheaper tyres (just as well), very slidable, more more wind in your hair, loads of upgrade paths and much cheaper to repair if it breaks or you break it.

Mark

>> Edited by dern on Monday 7th July 21:56