Anyone own my old Grantura?
Discussion
45 years ago I owned a Mk1 Grantura, it gave me the TVR 'bug'. I just wondered if it is still in existence.
It went from me, Richard Jarvis, to Graham Macreth (of Pyranha Plastics, the kayaking company) and then I lost track of it. The car should be fairly easy to identify. It had originally had a climax engine and the drivers side sill had been made concave to accept the exhaust. (It had a 1.5 riley engine when I had it). The rear panel had a boot lid inserted (by me!) and the tail lights were refitted into triangular inserts (brake/rear, indicator, reflector, all as per A35) so they pointed to the rear instead of the sky! It also had special wheels and finned drums as it had been raced. Original colour was 'banana' yellow, and it became a little more notorious in my area than I would have liked!
Regrettably I lost the few photos I had and I cannot even remember the registration.
I had to sell it because I needed the money to do up my first house. I think it paid for two window frames! Granturas were worth peanuts then. Bit more fun than my A35 first car though!
It went from me, Richard Jarvis, to Graham Macreth (of Pyranha Plastics, the kayaking company) and then I lost track of it. The car should be fairly easy to identify. It had originally had a climax engine and the drivers side sill had been made concave to accept the exhaust. (It had a 1.5 riley engine when I had it). The rear panel had a boot lid inserted (by me!) and the tail lights were refitted into triangular inserts (brake/rear, indicator, reflector, all as per A35) so they pointed to the rear instead of the sky! It also had special wheels and finned drums as it had been raced. Original colour was 'banana' yellow, and it became a little more notorious in my area than I would have liked!
Regrettably I lost the few photos I had and I cannot even remember the registration.
I had to sell it because I needed the money to do up my first house. I think it paid for two window frames! Granturas were worth peanuts then. Bit more fun than my A35 first car though!
Thanks for getting back to me. I went through the register, all the pictures on TVR Classics on PH and all the Google Grantura images. I did see one with a boot lid inserted but it was a later car. I am trying to find anybody in the family who might have any photo or anything else but no luck so far. My ex-wife can remember adventures in it, and my sister in law (who was tiny then) remembering how excited she was by a drive I took her on over the Yorkshire Dales!
If I could find 'her' again I would giver her more TLC than I did last time!
If I could find 'her' again I would giver her more TLC than I did last time!
Yes, I am afraid it is probably a needle in a haystack job, but you never know. Someone out there may be sitting on it! Racking my memory and those of the family the suggestion has come back that it was a Mk1A, possibly car number 49, but that may be pure speculation. I cannot find anything definite which is very frustrating!
Amazing, PH is great! Yes, that jogged my memory, it was LSN950. I had heard a rumour it might have gone from Graham Macreth via someone else to an American but I couldnt verify it. Sounds like it might still be alive then? Next port of call sounds like the TVROC of the USA.
You have PM
You have PM
Very interesting, so the rumour that it went to the USA was right. Nice to know that it seems to have survived to at least 2012....and risen in value rather dramatically! Ah well, we all know of something we shouldn't have sold, and this was certainly it for me. Worth more than a couple of windowframes for my first house now.
I cannot be absolutely sure but I will have owned it in the 1967-70 period. They were pretty well worthless then of course.
Next step will be to get a copy of that Sprint if I can and start making some enquiries re the TVROC in the USA. If anything interesting comes back I will keep you guys posted. Given the 2012 price and where it is, I think it is out of my range to bring it back across the pond!
Just saw your post D. Does that mean you still have some form of contact info, even if there has been no response?
I cannot be absolutely sure but I will have owned it in the 1967-70 period. They were pretty well worthless then of course.
Next step will be to get a copy of that Sprint if I can and start making some enquiries re the TVROC in the USA. If anything interesting comes back I will keep you guys posted. Given the 2012 price and where it is, I think it is out of my range to bring it back across the pond!
Just saw your post D. Does that mean you still have some form of contact info, even if there has been no response?
Edited by greymrj on Monday 20th October 18:06
That is fantastic Richard. Yes I am the Richard Jarvis referred to. All the stuff up to going to America fits in with my knowledge. I wonder if my idea that it was car 49 is somehow a confusion with it having been built in 59. I know I did take it up to the TVR factory once and got a very good reception and some basic info from them. The early racing history in the NW fits as well. It had the remains of scrutineers tags round the gear lever. It had non standard brakes and wheels and what I understood to be a 'fast' rack and a different diff. Damn shame I no longer have my notes or photographs.
This was in the days before space savers and getting the large 5th wheel in and out was a pain, especially as we also went camping in it! (How, I simply do not know!!) hence the decision to try to introduce a boot lid. One day I was at a breakers sourcing bits for someone else when I noticed either a Reliant or more likely a Bond with a bonnet panel of about the right size and shape. I was a competitive kayakker at the time (hence the subsequent sale to Graham Mackreth) and was used to moulding g.r.p. so I set to, modified the curvature on the panel and moulded the recess and mountings. It actually worked pretty well and made the car a lot more convenient.
I will just share a little tale with everybody else as it may bring in another Grantura owner. I was at Oulton Park one day for a classics meeting and there was an early Grantura, dark green, and a very nice restoration. I complemented the owner but made a comment that it was a shame the bonnet TRV badge wasnt original! He said they were as rare as hens teeth. I then told him there was one in my garage as I had sold my Grantura stripped for painting and the badge had been left on a shelf. He offered to buy it but I said I would give it to him to complete such a fine job, provided he sent me pictures of the finished car. Some time later he sent me pictures as promised, together with a TVR publicity brochure which included several classic TVR's including his; with 'my' badge on it! I was made up at the time. (when I am next in the loft I must get down the box of magazines and find that brochure again). So someone out there is possibly still running about in a Grantura with the bonnet badge from LSN 950! Does he remember I wonder?
This was in the days before space savers and getting the large 5th wheel in and out was a pain, especially as we also went camping in it! (How, I simply do not know!!) hence the decision to try to introduce a boot lid. One day I was at a breakers sourcing bits for someone else when I noticed either a Reliant or more likely a Bond with a bonnet panel of about the right size and shape. I was a competitive kayakker at the time (hence the subsequent sale to Graham Mackreth) and was used to moulding g.r.p. so I set to, modified the curvature on the panel and moulded the recess and mountings. It actually worked pretty well and made the car a lot more convenient.
I will just share a little tale with everybody else as it may bring in another Grantura owner. I was at Oulton Park one day for a classics meeting and there was an early Grantura, dark green, and a very nice restoration. I complemented the owner but made a comment that it was a shame the bonnet TRV badge wasnt original! He said they were as rare as hens teeth. I then told him there was one in my garage as I had sold my Grantura stripped for painting and the badge had been left on a shelf. He offered to buy it but I said I would give it to him to complete such a fine job, provided he sent me pictures of the finished car. Some time later he sent me pictures as promised, together with a TVR publicity brochure which included several classic TVR's including his; with 'my' badge on it! I was made up at the time. (when I am next in the loft I must get down the box of magazines and find that brochure again). So someone out there is possibly still running about in a Grantura with the bonnet badge from LSN 950! Does he remember I wonder?
Edited by greymrj on Tuesday 21st October 14:44
Now that is puzzling! I do not specifically remember brown paint when I was rubbing down the new g.r.p., although I suppose I might have thought it was an undercoat of some sort. Nor do I remember any substantial or obvious lightening of the chassis, although in fairness I had no other Grantura to compare it to. The uprights, hubs, brakes and wheels were all light alloy but other than that I cannot recall anything. However there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the body in the picture was mine; if the particular boot wasnt distinctive enough, that tail light recess is definitely my work, I can 'see' the 'mould' I used now.
As you can imagine I would be pig sick if I had had a special car and let it go!
As you can imagine I would be pig sick if I had had a special car and let it go!
I have just found the TVR brochure I referred to above. It appears to have originated in 1988 and is a catalogue of the history of TVR, referred to as 'Handcrafted British Sports cars since 1949', coincidentally it appears to have been part of the launch material for the S type and my current car is an S1. On the inside front page it shows a green 1963 Grantura 2A. That is the car I was referring to and it was owned by a Mr Trevor Crawley of Newcastle (Staffs) and was registered 688 GFR.
Oh, Oh, this is getting complicated isnt it. I went onto that old Autosport link and there is a reference in it to the car having 15" wobbly web wheels. So did LSN950 when I had it! Wish I could see the car in America, I could tell quickly enough from a couple of details (perhaps I ought to keep them to myself for the time being?!)
The comment about sandracing at Ainsdale is interesting. I never raced LSN950 there but I did go there to support a guy with a fast Anglia and I did assist a bit. On at least two occasions I drove LSN950 round the course at speed, getting firmly 'b
ked' on one occasion for doing so. The Grantura was wholly unsuitable for sand racing as it simply didnt have enough ground clearance and would just finish up beached. Good fun at the time but a bit of a nuisance for the club! (Didnt do the car any good either as it needed a lot of cleaning afterwards)
The comment about sandracing at Ainsdale is interesting. I never raced LSN950 there but I did go there to support a guy with a fast Anglia and I did assist a bit. On at least two occasions I drove LSN950 round the course at speed, getting firmly 'b
ked' on one occasion for doing so. The Grantura was wholly unsuitable for sand racing as it simply didnt have enough ground clearance and would just finish up beached. Good fun at the time but a bit of a nuisance for the club! (Didnt do the car any good either as it needed a lot of cleaning afterwards)Hi Klaus, the photo you have posted of LSN950 is very interesting. Notice the three holes in the web to the left hand chassis tube, is that non-standard? Remember that I had no reason to think at the time that 'my' Grantura was in any way different. It was TVR, it was cheap, it needed work that I could handle, and it was fun between getting engaged and the first child putting pay to play! I think there will be other older PH members who know what I mean. My Grantura did have those holes, in several places. I dont think they would have done that much for weight saving.
Moreover my Grantura did have rack and pinnion steering, someone told me it looked like a Jaguar rack but I have no reason to support that. It was a 'quick rack' certainly compared to anything else I had driven.
I suppose I might as well let another detail out! My car had finned drums, they were big drums and I know we had some difficulty finding shoes until a mate in the car factor trade found that some shoes from a Daimler Sovereign (they were introduced in 66 and I would have been looking for shoes about 69/70) would fit. So that would probably give the size of the drums. I know it stopped so well that the old fashioned MOT brake tester (that went on the floor of the car) went to the top of the scale and actually turned over....nearly put the tester through the screen!
Are there any pictures of 'coffee bean' out there? At this moment I do not think they are the same car as I had a good deal of paint off it as I had started to prep it for respray (when the first child was conceived!).
Rather than look at LSN950 it might be easier for me to see Coffee bean (which presumably was well photographed) and see if there are issues which distinguish them?
Moreover my Grantura did have rack and pinnion steering, someone told me it looked like a Jaguar rack but I have no reason to support that. It was a 'quick rack' certainly compared to anything else I had driven.
I suppose I might as well let another detail out! My car had finned drums, they were big drums and I know we had some difficulty finding shoes until a mate in the car factor trade found that some shoes from a Daimler Sovereign (they were introduced in 66 and I would have been looking for shoes about 69/70) would fit. So that would probably give the size of the drums. I know it stopped so well that the old fashioned MOT brake tester (that went on the floor of the car) went to the top of the scale and actually turned over....nearly put the tester through the screen!
Are there any pictures of 'coffee bean' out there? At this moment I do not think they are the same car as I had a good deal of paint off it as I had started to prep it for respray (when the first child was conceived!).
Rather than look at LSN950 it might be easier for me to see Coffee bean (which presumably was well photographed) and see if there are issues which distinguish them?
TDL933 has wires (although I suppose that could have been changed later) but it also has 'nostrils' and small mods to the front 'bumpers'. Somehow the grill doesnt look quite right either. I dont think that could have become LSN950.
4040RE however has the right wheels. However I think I would have known very well if there had been paint that dark underneath. Remember that working on this g.r.p. you can judge the amount of light coming through and such a dark paint (assuming the photo gives anything like a good impression)would surely have made the g.r.p. almost opaque, which it wasnt! Unfortunately the picture of 4040RE isnt clear enough to show enough distinctive detail.
4040RE however has the right wheels. However I think I would have known very well if there had been paint that dark underneath. Remember that working on this g.r.p. you can judge the amount of light coming through and such a dark paint (assuming the photo gives anything like a good impression)would surely have made the g.r.p. almost opaque, which it wasnt! Unfortunately the picture of 4040RE isnt clear enough to show enough distinctive detail.
That fits, to the extent that 'my' car had rack and pinion and had originally had a climax engine (which, regrettably, was no longer in the car when I got it). It also had the lightened webs on the chassis. But that still doesnt link it, in my mind, to the later 'coffee bean'. I still haven't seen any photographic, descriptive or documentary evidence that would make a firm connection.
If information, gleaned from the various people who have been good enough to take an interest, is correct; can we assume that climax engined cars had rack and pinion steering, 'wobbly wheels' and 'lightened' chassis? If so, how many climax engined Mk1's were produced? At the time TVR was very small, wouldnt it be reasonable to assume they were all signed off by the same man, so the ref to the 'builder' of the car is probably not distinctive.
The registrations are different and it appears both had their registrations while racing. (I was credited in an earlier post with putting the car on the road, but it was registered, with documentation, when I got it although it had been off the road in practice for some time).
Of those X cars mine appears to have been one, and 'coffee bean 2' another.
If information, gleaned from the various people who have been good enough to take an interest, is correct; can we assume that climax engined cars had rack and pinion steering, 'wobbly wheels' and 'lightened' chassis? If so, how many climax engined Mk1's were produced? At the time TVR was very small, wouldnt it be reasonable to assume they were all signed off by the same man, so the ref to the 'builder' of the car is probably not distinctive.
The registrations are different and it appears both had their registrations while racing. (I was credited in an earlier post with putting the car on the road, but it was registered, with documentation, when I got it although it had been off the road in practice for some time).
Of those X cars mine appears to have been one, and 'coffee bean 2' another.
Thanks for the help so far guys. I will be going to the TVR stand at the NEC. Just thought one of you guys might like this item on ebay: Rare to see copy of ;'Success against the odds'
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301372191581?_trksid=p20...
I'd love to but we old pensioners need to keep the money for the car.
Wouldnt mind a copy of pages relevant for me if the purchaser wouldnt mind.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301372191581?_trksid=p20...
I'd love to but we old pensioners need to keep the money for the car.
Wouldnt mind a copy of pages relevant for me if the purchaser wouldnt mind.
Very grateful for that kind offer alphaone. Only a couple of hours ago I received a similar offer direct (and accepted it). Great to know there are so many TVR guys out there prepared to help. Thanks again.
All we need to do know is to find the cash to bring 'my' car back where she belongs!
All we need to do know is to find the cash to bring 'my' car back where she belongs!
Fascinating Rob, thank you very much for that.
So frustrating that I didnt know all this and didnt keep it. I had always understood that 'my' car started life with a Climax engine, but I cannot remember where that info came from. There was evidence of mods having been made at one time to carry the exhaust down the offside which, I think, would be consistent with a Climax engine would it not? I did take it to TVR early in my ownership for help on one component, I was well received despite the car being in a bit of a tatty state at the time. I distinctly remember someone commenting that the wheels were worth more than the car but the true significance of that was lost on me at the time.
I am certain in my own mind that we can rule out Coffee Bean, I took it back to bare grp in several places and it would have shown.
All I can tell you about the purchase that it was from someone on the north side of Liverpool, not very helpful I am afraid. It was a non runner at the time so we towed it back and I can remember the seat was far too far back for me so I would assume the previous driver was a good deal taller than my 5'6", then most people are!! At the time the Riley engine was in but not running. My ex wife does recall there were tags on string round the gearlever which presumably were the remains of scrutineers tags.
At the time I had a small involvement with motor racing at Aintree so I might have heard about the car from there, but that could be a 'red herring'. At that time I was living in West Lancashire and commuting to Liverpool every day.
I do hope you find out more.
So frustrating that I didnt know all this and didnt keep it. I had always understood that 'my' car started life with a Climax engine, but I cannot remember where that info came from. There was evidence of mods having been made at one time to carry the exhaust down the offside which, I think, would be consistent with a Climax engine would it not? I did take it to TVR early in my ownership for help on one component, I was well received despite the car being in a bit of a tatty state at the time. I distinctly remember someone commenting that the wheels were worth more than the car but the true significance of that was lost on me at the time.
I am certain in my own mind that we can rule out Coffee Bean, I took it back to bare grp in several places and it would have shown.
All I can tell you about the purchase that it was from someone on the north side of Liverpool, not very helpful I am afraid. It was a non runner at the time so we towed it back and I can remember the seat was far too far back for me so I would assume the previous driver was a good deal taller than my 5'6", then most people are!! At the time the Riley engine was in but not running. My ex wife does recall there were tags on string round the gearlever which presumably were the remains of scrutineers tags.
At the time I had a small involvement with motor racing at Aintree so I might have heard about the car from there, but that could be a 'red herring'. At that time I was living in West Lancashire and commuting to Liverpool every day.
I do hope you find out more.
BIG DEVELOPMENT FOLKS!!
I have been keeping an eye out for leads and dropped a few hints in the hope it might bring some new info. To my utter surprise I received an email from America initially asking for my help in identifying a car which he believed might have been known in the UK as the 'Coffee Bean'. It was evident immediately that it was not Coffee Bean but my old car LSN950, the ex Norman Barclay car.
At that time his father had acquired in with something else and was undecided what to do with the little TVR. I gather it was a little outside their main interests. I gave him some information and asked him to get back to me if they ever decided to sell it.
He has now done just that!
The car is now in California (so it has done more miles on trailers in the USA than it ever did on the road in the UK!). And it appears there is a Climax engine with it, they seem to have bought it with the Climax engine included. But the photos I have seen so far suggest no restoration has been done and it is pretty much still as it left the UK. He has suggested $32,000.
There is no way I can afford that but I chat with one of the TVR club officers suggested it might be 'on' for a works lightweight with history. I would love to see it come back and restored and preferably even used in vintage competition. If there was someone out there who would be interested in taking this on I would love to play a part in doing so. But my pension will only run to the one TVR I have at present!
I have written back to him to say I would be very interested indeed, and he has given me first refusal. I have also made clear I would need to go into 'partnership' with someone else to acquire and repatriate it.
For obvious reasons I do not want to post more info on an open forum at present but I am hoping someone with serious intent will contact me direct.
I have been keeping an eye out for leads and dropped a few hints in the hope it might bring some new info. To my utter surprise I received an email from America initially asking for my help in identifying a car which he believed might have been known in the UK as the 'Coffee Bean'. It was evident immediately that it was not Coffee Bean but my old car LSN950, the ex Norman Barclay car.
At that time his father had acquired in with something else and was undecided what to do with the little TVR. I gather it was a little outside their main interests. I gave him some information and asked him to get back to me if they ever decided to sell it.
He has now done just that!
The car is now in California (so it has done more miles on trailers in the USA than it ever did on the road in the UK!). And it appears there is a Climax engine with it, they seem to have bought it with the Climax engine included. But the photos I have seen so far suggest no restoration has been done and it is pretty much still as it left the UK. He has suggested $32,000.
There is no way I can afford that but I chat with one of the TVR club officers suggested it might be 'on' for a works lightweight with history. I would love to see it come back and restored and preferably even used in vintage competition. If there was someone out there who would be interested in taking this on I would love to play a part in doing so. But my pension will only run to the one TVR I have at present!
I have written back to him to say I would be very interested indeed, and he has given me first refusal. I have also made clear I would need to go into 'partnership' with someone else to acquire and repatriate it.
For obvious reasons I do not want to post more info on an open forum at present but I am hoping someone with serious intent will contact me direct.
Amazing! Thank you for that.
Yes that is definitely my old car. Someone has added a bit of research but it all fits in (even mentions me!). I have copies of a couple of the documents referred to.
I knew that a Climax engine had been sourced 2 years ago but it wasn't fitted at the time and the car still had the 1.5 Riley engine that I bought with the car. Not sure where the Riley engine is now but clearly the Climax is more important.
There is no doubt it is the same car, the body mods are very distinctive! (I see he has been quite kind about them!) as is the bodywork mod for the offside exhaust which was a factory mod.
There have been some changes inside with the aluminium panelling.
I am pleased to see the wheels and finned brakes are still there, rare items.
The bulge in the bonnet appears to have been reduced, compare to the Rest and Be Thankful picture
It would be great if someone could bring this back to the UK. Do you know if anyone is going for it?
Would love to see it back in use. As far as I can tell it has seen very few miles on its own wheels since I had it but has toured America on trailers!! If anyone wants info I would be very happy to help.
Yes that is definitely my old car. Someone has added a bit of research but it all fits in (even mentions me!). I have copies of a couple of the documents referred to.
I knew that a Climax engine had been sourced 2 years ago but it wasn't fitted at the time and the car still had the 1.5 Riley engine that I bought with the car. Not sure where the Riley engine is now but clearly the Climax is more important.
There is no doubt it is the same car, the body mods are very distinctive! (I see he has been quite kind about them!) as is the bodywork mod for the offside exhaust which was a factory mod.
There have been some changes inside with the aluminium panelling.
I am pleased to see the wheels and finned brakes are still there, rare items.
The bulge in the bonnet appears to have been reduced, compare to the Rest and Be Thankful picture
It would be great if someone could bring this back to the UK. Do you know if anyone is going for it?
Would love to see it back in use. As far as I can tell it has seen very few miles on its own wheels since I had it but has toured America on trailers!! If anyone wants info I would be very happy to help.
Gassing Station | TVR Classics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff