F1 to be floated

[Derek Smith]

According to The Sunday Times:

Bernie Ecclestone is preparing Formula One for a $10 billion flotation on a Stock Exchange in Asia to plan the sport for a future without him.

OK, so we can safely say that he's doing it to make as much money for himself.

It gets worse.

Red Bull and Ferrari will get seats on the board while McLaren and Merc will not.

Words fail me.

[Derek Smith]

This was publicised on the Sky website and it was pulled.

This has all the aura of being for real.

Ferrari and RB have already signed a pre-agreement so this is not the ramblings of a demented nutter, like so many of his previous ones are. Sky are hand in glove with this.

There's a suggestion of a 10bn floatation of (part of) the commercial rights. There is, according to The Times - what could they possibly know about F1 and Sky deals - a shareholding for Ferrari.

Luca di Montezemolo is on the board as well as one for the RB president.

FOTA is dead. Betrayed many might think. There will be no negotiations for the concord agreement.

[Derek Smith]

TheHeretic said:

How on earth can tems be on the board? A basic conflict of interest, surely, so it should be independent.

There is a precedent of course, with Ferrari and that bloke who was doing an unpaid internship in the FIA.

[Derek Smith]

andy_s said:

Here's the Torygraph article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formul...

All he needs is a massive chair and white fluffy cat.

Bernie has a white fluffy dog instead. It is called Luca. it does everything it is told for scraps from his table.

FOTA forced him into the situation. He had to break it up so went for those he could buy. Not RD of course, just the ferrari boss and RB. Given the time from their resignation from FOTA until this revelation it would seem that this has come as a suprise to no one.

I'm not sure what this means for F1. Certainly having Ferrari on the board is dangerous for the sport. You only have to look back at the days when they were the favoured team of the FIA. Their nearest rival was handed a massive fine for things that other teams were doing but worse.

RB is more of a surprise. One would assume that they might well have threatened to quit if they were not allowed some influence.

This will be like Liverpool being allowed a chair on the FA together with ManU in order to stop the Premiership dropping out of the FA.

I'd really like to know what RD thiks of all this. Will he do an FW/PH and drop out by 'selling' the McL F1 team? He's had experience of when there's been an unequal playing field. It took its toll then. Is he up to it all again?

Merc is in a difficult position. Can they justify the expenditure to their unions? Losing jobs and losing influence despite powering so many cars - not the easiest of situations to sell.

Typical Bernie cycnicism but with the likes of Luca di in the sport, it gives a decent return on investment.

Bernie's in it for the short term now. He's probably selling up. He's got consdierable shares and seems intent on increasing their saleability. I wonder what would happen if RD and Merc said this was the last season for them. That might hit his pocket.

[Derek Smith]

Interesting slant on the sudden removal of the article from the Sky website.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2117688/BS...

At least there was no compromise of editorial independence.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/tv-radio/b...

Edited by Derek Smith on Tuesday 20th March 23:02

[Derek Smith]

Megaflow said:

Even by Bernie's standards, there is something extremely smelly about this one...

It would appear that the concord agreement is dead in the water. The board will be able to dictate what they want, and the teams will have to follow.

It explains why Ferrari and RB jumped from FOTA last year. In the case of Ferrari it is so much easier to gain an advantage over the other teams without having to do all that design and mechanical stuff that other teams seem to spend so much time and money on. How much better it would be to tell others what to do.

It worked in the past.

There is much more to this than we’ve been told. There seems to be considerable Sky/BSB influence. The fact that editorial was changed is quite remarkable especially as this is one of the major arugments for the virtual monopoly that Murdoch/BSB enjoys. One might think that the Murdochs are after a seat on the board.

One thing that’s been at the back of my mind in the run up to what I thought was going to be the negotiations around the concord agreement was that there might be pressure to go for one chassis and such. Little packages, made by certain teams – the two favourites are open to argument of course but I have my suspicions – of chassis, aerodynamics, engine, transmission, that sort of thing. Ikea inspired instructions on how to put it all together and people like Newey are of no account.

The news of the floatation increased that likelihood I think. If the threat to the teams is like it or lump it then there has to be a ready supply of other teams to take their place. If Ferrari and RB are the only established ones then the rest of FOTA has a degree of authority. If all a new team has to do is buy a set of spanners from Halfords to get on the grid then FOTA is of no consequence. There would be no need for Mercedes of course.

I’m a stalwart McLaren supporter, from the time of the start of MP4. One wonders what is in it for them. They are one of the senior teams in the sport, and if you look at the many changes Ferrari have undergone in the last 20 years there is a strong argument that they are the oldest team in the pitlane now that FW/PH have stepped down. yet here they are, sidelined.

The question is whether they were asked if they wanted a seat on the board. If they weren’t then one wonders what happened to this close, friendly relationship between Ecclestone and Dennis. If they were asked then one wonders if they have made a decision about their commitment to the sport in the future.

I agree totally that there is a smell about this deal. One wonders if it is the stench of the death of F1.

________


Gribkowsky has gone quiet. There is the possibility that a deal might be made with him and the prosecutors. Cough to this and that and give us the dirt of him and him and we'll promise that the judge will only give you a suspended. This sort of thing, there is nothing illegal about it, can be presented as a victory for the state, especially when voting is coming up, and at a huge saving in cost.

Who might he put away to the authorities? Who can say. You've got to say that it might be someone who gave evidence against him. Whoever it is will probably want to divest himself of those interests that might be captured by the justice system and by tied up in red tape for a long time.

Edited by Derek Smith on Wednesday 21st March 08:19

[Derek Smith]

harryowl said:

What stopping all the other teams from buggering off and starting their own series?

Nurses aside, take McLaren. Their team has a considerable 'dollar value', especialy now that they are class of the field. Next season they will be racing to a formula they had no influence on. It is risky enough as it stands but letting competitors make the rules and own the referee is not a route to success.

McLaren seel cars nowadays. They might well want their racing investment to give an ROI that will sell cars. Their sports cars. What better way of doing this than sports car racing?

The investment is much lower, the returns too at the moment, but with the FIA being a bit part player in F1 they might well be inclined to push sports cars, so to speak.

With the BBC losing F1 then there is an expertise there that might well look to other motor sports, ones that require less investment but can give lots of air time.

I used to follow both sports cars and F1, prefering the latter but still enjoying the thrill of the 'big bangers'. I remember Stewart crawling over a Lola just to get into the driving seat.

I was at Spa some years ago and a support race was historic sports cars, with a T70, Ford GT40s, a Jaguar - the crowd were entranced by them. I was in the pits at the bottom of Eau Rouge. Stunning!

[Derek Smith]

DJRC said:

Christ Derek but you dont half talk some crap.

Its just one of Bernie's "putting up the balloon" ideas. Do it and see what the reaction is. That will help inform the eventual planned action, which whatever it will end up being with have had considerable Macca input.

You do love your sensationalist grand standing.

Well of course it is. There will be an agreement between the teams and everything will be flowers and choclates again. Money has nothing to do with it.

The thing with a theory is that you need something to support it.

There needs to be a reason for the rats jumping from the FOTA ship. If this is indeed just another balloon then one must ask oneself why did one of the parties to the sell off suddenly put pressure on Sky News to pull a news story.

This alone is big news: BSB interfering in the editorial independence of Sky News. Do you fail to see this?

This year will see the end of the concord agreement. It is the most critical time for the sport. Do you suggest this is the time for kite-flying?

And here you are suggesting that the idea of RB and Ferrari being taken on board as the price for their sabotaging of FOTA is far-fetched grandstanding. Ferrari have done it before. That is, in my experience, reason for them doing it again. There have been other teams which jumped ship on the promise of financial returns.

Are you suggesting that there are no back door deals in the negotiations? That Bernie will not go for what gives him the maximum return? That the future of the sport is his guiding principle? 'Cause I'd argue against all three.

The FIA is neutered. FOTA now has little authority. Ecclestone wants to sell up, realise his assets. His daughters' houses don't come cheap you know. Their handbags alone would feed a medium sized country in Africa if they were sold off.

I would agree that this is not a done deal. Bernie is no longer the puppet master, if he ever was, and his days of pulling strings might well be coming to an end. RD would obviously have known why RB and Ferrari opted for the pull of money over loyalty and would, no doubt, have planned his response. Merc is powerful too. There response might will be critical.

We have Australia saying that they don't want to pay all this money to host F1, Spain saying they don't want two GPs and Germany is also considering whether to bother. Maybe even France will not run a GP.

And you seem to be suggesting that RD will be fooled by Bernie 'putting up a balloon'. I don't think so somehow. If you can see through it so easily then there is every chance Ron might as well.

Something is happening. Of course it is as something must happen to overcome the lack of a concord deal. I don't think that the negotiations will all out in the open. Just a hunch there. That thought maybe 'crap' as you say. We'll see.

Bernie appears to be on the back foot. The time to sell up would, I would have thought, been once the concord agreement is signed on the dotted. But circumstances dictate even for little Bern. Whilst this is hardly cobbled together, it is done at a time when it might well be considered to be a buyers' market.

[Derek Smith]

Eric Mc said:

I long for the day that we have a European centric Gtand Prix series (I don't care if it's called F1, Formula 1 or even Formula A).

Pereferably with closed road circuits and no wings

Such dreams. You never know your luck.

[Derek Smith]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formul...

Macca, it would appear, are in the 'minority'.

Time was when you could set alight to a car, a driver, pit crew, the pitlane and front pages around the world and get a pat on the head if you had a certain German in your team.

Scumacher has, it seems, passed his eat-by date.

[Derek Smith]

ralphrj said:

Derek Smith said:

Macca, it would appear, are in the 'minority'.

McLaren have signed, apparently.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98347

Autosport said:

Although the identity of all the teams involved was not announced, AUTOSPORT understands that the outfits that have reached an agreement with Ecclestone are Ferrari, Red Bull, McLaren, Lotus, Force India, Sauber and Toro Rosso.

That means that those yet to commit are Mercedes, Williams, Caterham, Marussia and HRT.

Hmm. More like 50:50 so no overwhelming majority.

Williams surprises me. I would have put odds on them signing. I wonder if McL have been offered anything to get them onside.

[Derek Smith]

I wonder if the FIA get anything. Not that we will be told the details of course.

[Derek Smith]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formul...

Merc unhappy. Threatening legal action.

There are reports that the value of the sport is not expected to get anywhere near the proposed $10bn. Macca going to the EU isn't going to help matters. In the old days there was Mosley to pull a point of view but now it is all down to Ecclestone.

Back in the dark agaes the EU was going to make severe demands on the sport but then lost interest when the person in charge of the attack was suddenly removed, for reasons which would have escaped me had I known them, and replaced by someone who wasn't quite so enthusiastic with regards enforcing decisions. Without Macca though things might be different.

[Derek Smith]

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2012/04/10/on-flota...

Saward: an interesting article on the floatation. Some difficult to follow, for me anyway, comments as well.

[Derek Smith]

The Telegraph said:
[url]
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/me...
[/url]

and finished with:

"This month CVC secured a new $2.3bn loan, due by 2018, to refinance the previous debt and make a one-off cash payment of $1.1bn to Delta Topco. This may be paid as a dividend, giving F1’s shareholders a further boost before the IPO."

If that doesn't get you reaching for your wallet, nothing will.

[Derek Smith]

http://www.totalf1.com/full_story/view/421598/Eccl...

It seems that the Gribkowsky fallout has yet to settle.

It would appear, if reports are correct, that Ecclestone will be suspended from post if charges are put to him. Some reports suggest this is likely while other say that the prosecutors have some way to go to prepare the case.

Whichever is right, and whether or not Ecclestone is charged, the threat is very real. This year's floation has probably suffered a mortal wound. Who would invest with this sort of scandal threatening?

If the foatation does not go ahead then is a sale likely?

[Derek Smith]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2208909/Be...

Short on facts but heavy with speculation but the prosecutor's office saying that they are continuing with the enquiry into Ecclestone it is very harmful.

The floatation might still go ahead of course but one wonders if Ecclestone's hopes have taken a bit of a hit.

[Derek Smith]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financial-crime...

How will this affect a floatation? Ecclestone has shown that he wants out but now is hardly the time to sell I would have thought. That said, he's no spring chicken so to a grate extent he hasn't got an awful lot more than now.

Where does this leave the Concord negotiations?