Pirelli tyres

[rdjohn]

Pirelli says it is surprised at accusations from Michael Schumacher that the current generation of tyres are not allowing drivers to push their cars to the limit.
On the back of a frustrating afternoon in Bahrain, where Schumacher could not make the progress through the field that he had hoped for, the seven-time champion hit out at the way drivers are being forced to look after their tyres.
"The main thing I feel unhappy about is that everyone has to drive well below a driver's, and in particular, the car limits to maintain the tyres," he told BBC Radio 5.
"I just question whether the tyres should play such a big importance, or whether they should last a bit longer - and that you can drive at normal racing car speed and not cruise around like we have a safety car."
Pirelli's director of motorsport Paul Hembery said he was taken aback by those criticisms, especially because Schumacher had been so happy with the tyres throughout winter testing.
"I'm disappointed to hear those comments from someone of Michael's experience," he told AUTOSPORT. "Others were getting on with the job and getting their tyres to work. His comments during winter testing were that he was very happy with the tyres, and now he seems to have changed his tune."
Schumacher added in his post-race summary that he thinks Pirelli should reconsider its approach to tyres – because the problems of not being able to push to the limit were being experienced by too many people.
"I'm not happy about the situation, lets see what happens in future," explained the Mercedes driver. "If it would be a one-off car issue, then you could say it's up on us to deal with it.
"But basically it is everybody with maybe one or two exceptions. And if it is 80 per cent of the field that has this problem, then maybe the tyre supplier should think about that."

Personally, I do not like Mickey Mouse compounds being used to determine the outcome of a race. F1 tyres need to be fast and durable

Option should just just mean “qually”

[rdjohn]

When I started this vote / thread, I assumed this was a loaded question and that 95% of Pistonheads would, of course, prefer driver input to determine the WDC.

How wrong could I be; 45% of voters actually think that the control tyre supplier should be the most important influence in determining the outcome of a race. Excuse me, I am off to bang my head against a wall.

Endurance racing should be all about fuel consumption and managing tyres (the clue is in the name) Rallying is now about choosing the right compound for the conditions, but NO!!! F1, should be solely about who has the best driver / chassis combination – that is the whole point of having a CONTROL TYRE.

It is not allowed to happen in F Ford; Renault; BMW, F3, F2, or even GP2, so why should the very pinnacle of motorsport be hobbled in this way?

[rdjohn]

If you compare the race duration for the Oz GP in 2012 with Mickey Mouse tyres, and 2007 when there were durable Bridgestones and re-fuelling meaning that drivers could go pretty much flat out for the whole race, you have:-

2007 Kimi Raikonnen 58 laps 1hour:25min:28secs

2012 Jenson Button 58 laps 1hour:34min:9secs

8 1/2 mins (about 10%) is a lot of fuel saving / tyre conservation in an F1 car

[rdjohn]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99437

Says all you need to know, IMHO. While a few drivers have been rolled-out to support Pirelli, the racers are notably absent in their support.

[rdjohn]

Mermaid said:

Have any of the guys who have been on the podium complained yet? Schummie may be right but....

I suspect a huge conspiracy of silence - no one dare talk about the huge elephant in the room. Shuey is clearly speaking his own mind - which you can do with 7 WDCs to your name.

The tyres may increase the TV audience; they do not reward race craft.

[rdjohn]

StevieBee said:

Has F1 ever been 'pure', though? From it's inception, it's been about a compromise, extracting the maximum from a narrow window of permissible options, options that change and evolve over time. Is this not part of the attraction? - seeing how designers work within such confines and which driver is capable of extracting the most out of the car they drive.

It's one of the reasons why these "Best Drivers of All Time" polls are meaningless as you can't compare across many different eras - and just because one dominates in one era does not mean they would in another - see Michael Schumacher for further details.

Disco1 is right, when they had control Bridgestones and refuelling, you could be reasonably confident that the car / driver combination were working optimally, or actually racing, if you prefer.

When the tyres fall apart on the same lap, driver No2 (Shuey?) is unreasonably compromised, and usually for the rest of the race. I guess that by the end of this season getting 11th in qualifying will be the optimal grid position.

[rdjohn]

StevieBee said:

That is true, though Bridgestone was present during what was without doubt, the dullest period in the sport's history. I guess you can't have it both ways.

I struggle to find fault with much of the racing during 2007 and 2008; apart from dodgy steward's decisions.

Prior to 2007 there was a tyre war raging and after 2008 refueling was dropped in favour of adjustable tabs and KERS, and double-diffuser dominance i.e. when all the artificial rot really set in.

[rdjohn]

llewop said:

define 'normal'?

Try watching any other open-wheel formula from Karting to GP2 and you will understand what is normal overtaking.

I fail to understand why the sport of F1 has to be different - it is just that business gets in the way.

[rdjohn]

nigel greensall said:

Well I think the racing has been eggcellent this year, although it is good to see Schumi not too chicken to speak out about the scrambled order of the field. All the eggcitement about these tyres has me cracking up, maybe some of the drivers have boiled over because they feel their best results have been poached off them by lower order teams? Guess it's no yoke with all the money at stake.

With the tyres I guess Pirelli think it has been a Goodyear, although they will be under pressure if Hancock do poach the business. Depends if they are allowed to tread on their toes. Guess we will all be tyred of the changes - all we want is some wheely good racing!

scrambled message

[rdjohn]

Looks like Jenson agrees with Shuey

"I think our car aerodynamically is strong and mechanically it's not too bad either but sometimes it doesn't seem to click and that must be the four things that are touching the circuit."

[rdjohn]

Did we not witness the most farcical qualifying session ever today?

If McLaren, Ferrari, Red Bull and Mercedes with their big budgets and loads of engineers cannot plan a sensible strategy with these joker tyres, then why not do something more sensible - like draw lots for grid places.

Teams would at least have decent sets of tyres to plan their strategy for a more sensible race.

[rdjohn]

zac510 said:

You must have your head in your arse not to see that tommorrow's race is going to be awesome with these tyre issues and a mixed up grid.

Or will you still find another way to be negative?

Sorry, but my head is “not up me arse” this is the biggest travesty I have witnessed in perhaps 45 years of adoring F1. This is a complete farce. What exactly is the point of qualifying on the grid? Do we believe that Maldenado will be the eventual race winner tomorrow? (13/5/12 Humble pie time - well done Williams)

One week, Nico gets let off for gross misconduct, trying to put another driver in the wall, and the next Lewis get excluded for a minor technical infringement. Sam Michael should be shot, but Lewis should have pole just because he has screwed far more sets of tyres for the actual race.

The very worst scenario is that he should lose his final Q3 time.

This is a JOKE!!

Edited by rdjohn on Sunday 13th May 16:19

[rdjohn]

Johnboy Mac said:

Yes, the most untalented seven times WC ever!

Exactly - I never really admired him, but the record speaks for itself. I suppose some doubters also thought he was poor in the rain? The problem then was that the talent around him was not as good as it is now.

There is now so much talent on the grid that he is looking a bit mediocre, but I doubt that he has forgotten much. Delivery is now his problem.

[rdjohn]

Red Bull owner Dietrich Mateschitz says tyres have turned F1 into a lottery for teams

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99640

[rdjohn]

So would we like to see Usain Bolt running with just 1 shoe, or goals so large that football match score lines read 34 - 36?

It would make great TV.

[rdjohn]

Eric Mc said:

Unlike athletics, Motor sport is very much based on technical formulae and specifications. That fact is even reflected in the titles the categories of motor sport are labelled with.

Like GP2 and GP3?

Technical regulations are used to bring about a level playing field throughout all categories of motorsport, so it is driver skill that becomes paramount. The current tyres just introduce a high degree of randomness. i.e. they make it more of a lottery.

It is hard to think of a metaphor comparable to asking Pirelli to design non-durable tyres, but it is akin to asking a structural engineer to design a bridge that will collapse after 5 – 6 years have elapsed. TV cameras would know when it was about to happen, so it would make a great human interest story. Yes, I know, it is daft.

[rdjohn]

zac510 said:

Kimi speaks out against scuffers and rdjohn:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99647

No, I agree with him!

BRING BACK REFUELING - it will make the event more of a race; preferably, bring back refueling and durabe race-tyres as well.

Teams sitting around in the pits or doing safe laps to save tyres in Q3 is all wrong

[rdjohn]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99670

The Emporer strikes back, but my money would be on Dietrich Mateschitz having greater influence on Bernie & FIA for next year.

[rdjohn]

Eric Mc said:

Which would you prefer though?

Predictable or unpredictable?

Why not racing or lottery? To me this is the key question.

JB is good at preserving tyres, but was scratching his head at the weekend.
LH drove a great race, but could he have got on the podium with half-decent tyres?
SV & MW's comments basically summed it up. No one has much of a clue and they have Newey on their side.
KR looks like an idiot in one race and gets on the podium in the next two
Same for Mercedes, but they get a win
Q3 has become a farce
While everyone is please to see Williams have a podium, I prefer racing to sentimentality.

Edited by rdjohn on Friday 18th May 13:02

[rdjohn]

Bedazzled said:

I think people are getting their wires crossed when they look back at the noughties, in fact there were multiple factors responsible for the lack of overtaking.

The main culprits were the ever-increasing aero making it hard to follow the car in front, refuelling strategies resulting in overtaking in the pits, unlimited testing favouring the big teams, traction control and ABS brakes reducing driver input, FIA bias toward Ferrari, etc... the tyres were never the problem.

Then the cars got too fast, and the FIA faced a choice; either limit aero grip or mechanical grip. They made fundamentally the wrong choice (imo) and it went hand-in-hand with the subsequent Tilke track designs.

Proper wheel-to-wheel racing only has any value if the guy in front is able to defend. What we've got now isn't overtaking, it's cars shuffling themselves into order according to how well they manage their tyres.

Agreed

How does racing take place in all sub-F1 open-wheel series?

1. There is untimed practice to set up the car.
2. Drivers qualify for their place on the grid – fastest first; slowest at the back

With this scenario, the scope for overtaking should be difficult and limited; fans for decades have understood this criterion.

Winners collect points and the one with the greatest number of points wins the championship. Talent shows through in Gp2, the best get to play in F1. They get the most technically complex equipment, and then all the sensible rules are thrown out of the window.

Why does F1 have to break free from these very simple principles? Cos there is lots of money in it and huge vested interests.

Is it possible to introduce technical regulations that limit big budgets and aero effects? Yes, but team principals and technical directors don’t like it, so they ask for Mickey Mouse tyres instead and the consequence of that is a lottery of results.

Ironically, I do think that the cream of drivers – dare I suggest Alonso and Hamilton – will rise to the top over 20 throws of the dice, but individually Q3s and the races are somewhat farcical.

For the first time ever, rather than endure another throw of the dice at Monaco, I have decided to go out and have some fun and do a track day at Magny Cours, In any event, I will probably come home and find that the Stewards have penalised everyone, because there was so much overtaking going on.

Or, maybe Jackie Stewart is right, these tyres could be just too dangerous on such a restricted track.

Look out for marbles in the tunnel Felipe!