Want to start Rallying - Historic RWD etc
Discussion
I fancy giving rallying a go, perhaps 3-4 events a year.
I want to be driving on loose surfaces mostly, stage rallying etc.
I would like to start getting my license etc and really i would like to partake in a friendly championship, I was thinking I would like something historic and RWD.
I have sent off to join the Historic Rally Car register.
The plan would be, if I get all serious, to sell a car I own for something like £25K and try to buy a nicely prepped car for something like £15-20K.
Perhaps a 1600 Talbot sunbeam, some kind of Escort, or something like that.
Does this sound like a feasible plan? Should I be starting with hill climbing or sprinting???
I really don't much like the idea o road rallies or endurance rallies.
I'm in Essex so would need to find something in the southeast to learn if possible, preferably closer than wales anyway.... I did have a go at Brands Hatch recently in the GT86, surpisingly fun
Finding a Co- Driver etc worries me about stage rallies, does anyone actually want to do it, everyone wants to drive!?
I want to be driving on loose surfaces mostly, stage rallying etc.
I would like to start getting my license etc and really i would like to partake in a friendly championship, I was thinking I would like something historic and RWD.
I have sent off to join the Historic Rally Car register.
The plan would be, if I get all serious, to sell a car I own for something like £25K and try to buy a nicely prepped car for something like £15-20K.
Perhaps a 1600 Talbot sunbeam, some kind of Escort, or something like that.
Does this sound like a feasible plan? Should I be starting with hill climbing or sprinting???
I really don't much like the idea o road rallies or endurance rallies.
I'm in Essex so would need to find something in the southeast to learn if possible, preferably closer than wales anyway.... I did have a go at Brands Hatch recently in the GT86, surpisingly fun
Finding a Co- Driver etc worries me about stage rallies, does anyone actually want to do it, everyone wants to drive!?
andy97 said:
I am in a similar position to you except have done the licence (I recommend Bill Gwynne Rally School at Turweston Airfield near Silverstone) and have a car, but still have not done a rally yet for a variety of boring reasons. However, what I have discovered is that rallying is a little bit of an information desert and mostly not in the 21 st century with respect to social media and the Internet so it's quite difficult to get useful info for the uninitiated.
Inevitably you will be advised to "join your local club", but not many of us have time to go along to monthly meetings these days and find out info from face to face conversations, so it's great that you have asked these questions here. Maybe PH can help,bring rallying in to the 21st century.
It's also worth joining the British Rally Forum and the "Rally Log in and natter" FB page to get access to some info.
It's difficult to advise on what sort of car to get but Escorts are clearly easy to get parts and help for, more so than almost any other rally car so that would be a good place to start. However, the historic rally world is really very strong on period authenticity so be careful. Plenty of escorts (and indeed, many older cars) are not eligible for the HRCR series. There is, sadly, nothing like the "quasi historic/ classic" racing world that you find with the CSCC or some other clubs etc where sensible and cost effective mods are allowed even if that means that cars are not FIA compliant!
Oh, and truly historic cars tend to be expensive as they have to comply with the homologation forms of the day.
On the other hand, many aspects of rallying are truly Libre and this why you find plenty of "modern spec" escorts with 2.5 litre bespoke racing engines or fitted with Vauxhall Red Tops or Duratecs, and sequential gearboxes etc. And they can be eye watering,y expensive.
I don't know the numbers, but I would suggest that truly historic rallying is a much smaller minority part of uk rallying in terms of numbers of competitors, compared to circuit racing.
Do you really want to take part in historic rallying, or do you just want to rally an older car? Plenty of people take the latter approach, and the vast majority of events cater for cars of all ages, you are just up against each other in simple engine capacity class splits.
Do you really want to rally on the loose or will Tarmac and concrete surfice? I suspect that forest rallying is much more expensive but, as I said earlier, I am not an expert here, but that is my guess.
Do you want to do multi-venue rallies or single venue? The latter I suspect are cheaper as the car doesn't need to be taxed or insured for the road and you don't need a mobile service Crew etc; you can just have a central servicing park so probably need fewer people to help.
Do you really want to rally RWD? Not that many affordable historic options with good spares and prep availability??? Except the escort. Discuss?! How about rallying something like an MX5 - don't laugh, it can be done and there is excellent spares availability and people like Paul Sheard have done it. Another option is a BMW Compact. Cars like this can be a good choice because they are not too expensive to buy, good spares availability and they are lighter than more modern cars.
If FWD is an option, an MG ZR is a good car which is supposed to handle well. Not historic yet though. 205s are great but, again, can be expensive to build or buy in proper historic spec.
People will volunteer to be co-drivers - the British Rally Forumis good again here, but in the early days I suspect you will be paying all the bills. Later on, some co-drivers may contribute.
There are starting to be some rally track days now, particularly at places like Anglesey and Brands Hatch (I think) ahead of the MSVR Circuit Rally championship, and this allows some none competitive rally type experience, albeit mostly on sealed surfaces. It might be difficult to find something similar for the loose, unless you go to the rally schools.
For a car, have a look at "Donedeal.ie" and search for rally cars for sale. It's an Irish site but there are more rally cars for sale over there and cheaper than in the UK.
To put this all in perspective, I bought a non- historic escort from Ireland, with a Vauxhall 1600 engine. When I eventually get out in it it will be on single venue type rallies and I will be competing in the up to 1600 class against modern hatches as well as older cars such as 205s etc. It was a cheap(ish) buy but to put it in proper historic spec would probably cost double or more likely triple the purchase cost at least. Even if I fitted it with a Pinto engine, it would not be truly historic spec because of the other mods already done to it.
I intend to rally my car on 2-4. single venue sealed surface events per year and just have fun. I will largely be competing for my own enjoyment and probably won't be competitive in class but what the hell. I would love to buy a historic spec escort, or convert mine, but it's just not ralistic for my budget.
Hopefully, someone with more knowledge than me will be along to offer better advice!
Thank you for taking the time to write such a comprehensive reply. A lot of food for thought. Inevitably you will be advised to "join your local club", but not many of us have time to go along to monthly meetings these days and find out info from face to face conversations, so it's great that you have asked these questions here. Maybe PH can help,bring rallying in to the 21st century.
It's also worth joining the British Rally Forum and the "Rally Log in and natter" FB page to get access to some info.
It's difficult to advise on what sort of car to get but Escorts are clearly easy to get parts and help for, more so than almost any other rally car so that would be a good place to start. However, the historic rally world is really very strong on period authenticity so be careful. Plenty of escorts (and indeed, many older cars) are not eligible for the HRCR series. There is, sadly, nothing like the "quasi historic/ classic" racing world that you find with the CSCC or some other clubs etc where sensible and cost effective mods are allowed even if that means that cars are not FIA compliant!
Oh, and truly historic cars tend to be expensive as they have to comply with the homologation forms of the day.
On the other hand, many aspects of rallying are truly Libre and this why you find plenty of "modern spec" escorts with 2.5 litre bespoke racing engines or fitted with Vauxhall Red Tops or Duratecs, and sequential gearboxes etc. And they can be eye watering,y expensive.
I don't know the numbers, but I would suggest that truly historic rallying is a much smaller minority part of uk rallying in terms of numbers of competitors, compared to circuit racing.
Do you really want to take part in historic rallying, or do you just want to rally an older car? Plenty of people take the latter approach, and the vast majority of events cater for cars of all ages, you are just up against each other in simple engine capacity class splits.
Do you really want to rally on the loose or will Tarmac and concrete surfice? I suspect that forest rallying is much more expensive but, as I said earlier, I am not an expert here, but that is my guess.
Do you want to do multi-venue rallies or single venue? The latter I suspect are cheaper as the car doesn't need to be taxed or insured for the road and you don't need a mobile service Crew etc; you can just have a central servicing park so probably need fewer people to help.
Do you really want to rally RWD? Not that many affordable historic options with good spares and prep availability??? Except the escort. Discuss?! How about rallying something like an MX5 - don't laugh, it can be done and there is excellent spares availability and people like Paul Sheard have done it. Another option is a BMW Compact. Cars like this can be a good choice because they are not too expensive to buy, good spares availability and they are lighter than more modern cars.
If FWD is an option, an MG ZR is a good car which is supposed to handle well. Not historic yet though. 205s are great but, again, can be expensive to build or buy in proper historic spec.
People will volunteer to be co-drivers - the British Rally Forumis good again here, but in the early days I suspect you will be paying all the bills. Later on, some co-drivers may contribute.
There are starting to be some rally track days now, particularly at places like Anglesey and Brands Hatch (I think) ahead of the MSVR Circuit Rally championship, and this allows some none competitive rally type experience, albeit mostly on sealed surfaces. It might be difficult to find something similar for the loose, unless you go to the rally schools.
For a car, have a look at "Donedeal.ie" and search for rally cars for sale. It's an Irish site but there are more rally cars for sale over there and cheaper than in the UK.
To put this all in perspective, I bought a non- historic escort from Ireland, with a Vauxhall 1600 engine. When I eventually get out in it it will be on single venue type rallies and I will be competing in the up to 1600 class against modern hatches as well as older cars such as 205s etc. It was a cheap(ish) buy but to put it in proper historic spec would probably cost double or more likely triple the purchase cost at least. Even if I fitted it with a Pinto engine, it would not be truly historic spec because of the other mods already done to it.
I intend to rally my car on 2-4. single venue sealed surface events per year and just have fun. I will largely be competing for my own enjoyment and probably won't be competitive in class but what the hell. I would love to buy a historic spec escort, or convert mine, but it's just not ralistic for my budget.
Hopefully, someone with more knowledge than me will be along to offer better advice!
Edited by andy97 on Tuesday 3rd July 00:04
I see what you mean, a shame to get stuck with an old car that does not qualify for historic events unless you go in with your eyes open and go for one or the other, although both appeal, like most things it will come down to budget I suppose.
The BMW compact is a pretty good idea as an alternative. I basically want to get something sorted and quick enough to feel that it's a real challenge, take part to be competitive etc although I accept this will no doubt take a long time to build up the experience.
I know that maybe strictly speaking i should start in a 100bhp front wheel drive hatch (which I'm sure is great fun too), but life its too short
Just looked and found the BMW Rallying forum, got to be worth a look!
Just been and done the "Forest Experience" in Wales in a MK2 Escort. Also has a go in a group N scoobie.
Loved the opportunity to drive on something more like a real stage.
Instructor said I was "on it" to set the fastest timed run of the group until I turned the wrong way, d'oh!
This has re-ignited my fledgling desires to go rallying! going to look at doing license and perhaps hiring for an event!
Loved the opportunity to drive on something more like a real stage.
Instructor said I was "on it" to set the fastest timed run of the group until I turned the wrong way, d'oh!
This has re-ignited my fledgling desires to go rallying! going to look at doing license and perhaps hiring for an event!
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