24hr regulation proposals
Discussion
Following on from the other thread perhaps this is the time to offer the EERC some constructive comments with how the 24hr regulations might go for 2008.
At least that way we tried.
My suggestion would be.
3 classes. Class 1 would be up to 5000cc with turbos at a multiple of 1.4 with a minimum weight of 1200kgs. Fuel 80 litres.
Class 2 would be up to 2000cc (turbo 1.4) minimum weight of 1000kgs. Fuel 120 litres.
Class 3 would be up to 1600cc (turbo 1.4) minimum weight 600kgs. Fuel 80 litres.
PLUS a special efficiency trophy which will go to the car that travels furthest on the least fuel.
I'd not have any separation for standard type cars because actually these kind of cars are entered by people who what the challenge of actually taking part and know from the outset that they can not win outright but they will perhaps be able to challenge for the efficiency trophy.
At least that way we tried.
My suggestion would be.
3 classes. Class 1 would be up to 5000cc with turbos at a multiple of 1.4 with a minimum weight of 1200kgs. Fuel 80 litres.
Class 2 would be up to 2000cc (turbo 1.4) minimum weight of 1000kgs. Fuel 120 litres.
Class 3 would be up to 1600cc (turbo 1.4) minimum weight 600kgs. Fuel 80 litres.
PLUS a special efficiency trophy which will go to the car that travels furthest on the least fuel.
I'd not have any separation for standard type cars because actually these kind of cars are entered by people who what the challenge of actually taking part and know from the outset that they can not win outright but they will perhaps be able to challenge for the efficiency trophy.
Scuffers said:
*crying*
so, that's the Mosler's, Jaguar, Marcos out for startes then!
Top stuff...
Why?? You could run a Mosler with a 5 litre V8, same for Marcos who actually do run 5 litre V8's in the Mantis - of which I believe the bulk of the entry for the 24hrs is made. so, that's the Mosler's, Jaguar, Marcos out for startes then!
Top stuff...
Even if you take your theory to the extreme and nobody was willing to change I think we would loose 3 Moslers, 1 Jag and 1 Marcos which actually got pitched out because of noise... So 5 cars.
Do me a favour - try engaging your brain before taking a pop. Oh and also it might be constructive if you actually said something of your ideas instead of just moaning..
Steve Britcar said:
2priests - this is a totally personal view, and not the official EERC line........
If you want to set the regulations for a 24 hr race, then go and run your own one. Then you'll find out what it really takes to run a motor race.
Otherwise, butt out, and let James Tucker run it.
You are entitled to the view of course however I'm not sure I or anyone else has actually said they wanted to run things.If you want to set the regulations for a 24 hr race, then go and run your own one. Then you'll find out what it really takes to run a motor race.
Otherwise, butt out, and let James Tucker run it.
Is there anything wrong in trying to improve things?
JT totally upset the Duller team and many others with his complete failure to stick to his own regulations. Perhaps you or the EERC could explain the change of classes with days of the event - including the change in fuel capacity which affected peoples stratagies.
Its OK to bury the head in the sand I suppose because its his/EERC's money, but it would be sad if it went to the wall just because of a subborn attitude.
After all that attitude didn't do him or the club any favours with the championship which failed to attract the season long entry due to the insistance of a confused registration and race pick 'n mix that we had.
Scuffers said:
2priestsferrari said:
steil said:
Hmm, 1.6 cars vs 5.0l ones - the differentials between the 968 & the Z4 was big enough without expanding upon it! 
1600cc and 600kgs... Think about it.. 
OK so I'm guessing that everyone thinks the EERC regs are broadly right as nobody wants to give any suggestions. In which case you have what you have and the only way to beat Duller will be to bring equally strong car and drivers...
Edited by 2priestsferrari on Thursday 20th September 09:56
Simon Leith said:
So 2Priests, our 3.2 litre BMW M3 would be in the same class as the 5 litre cars? Also, a 2.5 litre car would be up against them. Now, I know we would have better fuel economy etc. but seriously.....that's a bit of a joke !!!
Look I don't want to be funny but people just don't think before writing this stuff. That 3.2 BMW motor...would that be the same kind of thing in the Duller Z4M that has won the last two 24hrs?? I think it is. The same one that people might reckon has 450bhp?? I think it is. The point is whilst I agree that would be a fairly extreme 3.2 motor it does make a point that you have to draw the line somewhere.
Simon Leith said:
I am not saying the EERC's regs are right or wrong. I do agree with 935 in that whatever the regs are need to be stuck to. But, to be honest, I would rather stick with James' regs than yours my dear. There are more people wanting to win their class than you think.....us being one of them.
Winning class is fine, but actually if the regulations had been followed then the Z4M may well have been in your very class. At somepoint there has to be recognition that when the last two years the race has been pretty much a one horse race for the outright win something needs to change to make the event more exciting for the people watching. I accept that not everyone is going to be able to pitch up with a Z4M and a bunch of pro drivers, so you either have to limit the fuel to such a degree or ban these kind of cars.Simon Leith said:
Also, if you throw enough money at a 5 litre engine I am pretty sure you will get 600BHP + out of it. You would be pitching that against a 300 BHP Beemer in the same class!????
Throw enough money at a 3.2 BMW motor and it wins..see Duller Z4M.Simon Leith said:
The only fair way to run classes is the way the EERC is trying to do it which is power to weight. 
I wouldn't disagree so why, when the regulations of the 24hrs are also based on power to weight, was there no power loggers? Without which the whole basis of the classes were done finger in the air.Simon Leith said:
Not being funny, but you can probably tell from the responses that your idea isn't really going down well! Or was the idea to stir up another argument like with all your other comments? You like a good 
don't you!??
Look its fine if people don't agree but I think it is healthy to at least have the debate and if we all end up saying everything is rosey then great. What I don't understand is the way that people don't want to talk, don't want to enter into things and actually there were many many people who complained about the Z4M and its initial class but not one person has given reason why it was moved. don't you!??I think what this perhaps has highlighted is that currently we don't have any regulation. We might have regulations but no regulation of them.
Edited by 2priestsferrari on Thursday 20th September 15:16
Henry-F said:
But Britcar shouldn`t require people to spend tens of thousand of pounds extracting incredible power from their engines, you should be able to compete in a reliable, affordable car. If you want to push the boundaries give the DTM a call. Sensible rules provide close racing and keep costs down.
Henry
I agree. But right now that is exactly what anyone wanting to do well is going to have to do. I think one way of doing the 24hrs a favour is to say that entries here have to have done 2 or 3 Britcar meetings as well which would perhaps boost the Britcar grid and also mean that the class is better worked.Henry
Edited by Henry-F on Thursday 20th September 15:27
On the cheating side you meantion in the other thread once again I agree, however there will always be losers simply because there will always be some in the bottom end of one catagory and the top of another.
Those on the margins will always find themselves more or less competitive through shear chance which is why I don't believe that a power/weight thing is the best way forward - quite apart from the dodgy results that power logger gave (which of course need the Cd of the car and how many have had their cars in a wind tunnel lately??)
HIM! ha ha ha.
Simon Leith just relax why is it with some people its all "your a joke" "know nothing", etc, etc. If we were sat face to face we could have a reasonable conversation (where we didn't agree) without the kick off. So just chill a little.
I'm totally cool with everyones point of view and actually I would agree if the current regulations were enforced then it would be 100% improvement from what we have, which is a long way towards random.
I think what some over look a little however when we talk about mega money is that with the current regulations that is exactly what we have right now. i.e. big money car, drivers and team. So if you change nothing why will that change?
And before you shout about the classes remember Duller also had a big money effort in the lower class and in previous 24hr races there have been fairly big money thrown around with touring car drivers before.
Anyway enough. We have what we have but when you talk about the regulations, when you reflect upon the desire to grow the event and attract spectators and then throw into the mix the comments about novice drivers causing accident, etc. There are a great number of conflicts.
Slagging me off won't fix them, perhaps if some articulated their view there maybe elements of something useful. For some its their one big race of the year, their little adventure, for others its just another race that they have to stay up late for. It probably matters to some of you more than others. All the best.
Simon Leith just relax why is it with some people its all "your a joke" "know nothing", etc, etc. If we were sat face to face we could have a reasonable conversation (where we didn't agree) without the kick off. So just chill a little.
I'm totally cool with everyones point of view and actually I would agree if the current regulations were enforced then it would be 100% improvement from what we have, which is a long way towards random.
I think what some over look a little however when we talk about mega money is that with the current regulations that is exactly what we have right now. i.e. big money car, drivers and team. So if you change nothing why will that change?
And before you shout about the classes remember Duller also had a big money effort in the lower class and in previous 24hr races there have been fairly big money thrown around with touring car drivers before.
Anyway enough. We have what we have but when you talk about the regulations, when you reflect upon the desire to grow the event and attract spectators and then throw into the mix the comments about novice drivers causing accident, etc. There are a great number of conflicts.
Slagging me off won't fix them, perhaps if some articulated their view there maybe elements of something useful. For some its their one big race of the year, their little adventure, for others its just another race that they have to stay up late for. It probably matters to some of you more than others. All the best.
Bellly said:
Why do people join these forums and chose to remain anonymous?
If your not prepared to have the bollox to stand behind your comments then you should keep your gob shut!
Why do you say that? What have balls got to do with the discussion around regulations? If your not prepared to have the bollox to stand behind your comments then you should keep your gob shut!
I choose to remain anon so that I can leave the discussion at this forum and if I choose to speak in person then its for me to choose that time.
Steve. Firstly just calm down because whilst you quite rightly say; you don't know who I am but I certainly know who you are. There is no need for all this swearing, insults and kicking off. At the very best its rude and totally uncalled for.
It isn't your choice to know who I am and if I said I was Allan McNish, Bernie Ecclestone or James Tucker does that matter?? My opinions are worth no more or less than anyone elses - but at least I have an opinion to express and in the main the opinions are fair and follow a logic. You might not agree but then if you could articulate yourself beyond swearing there might be progress.
For someone who hasn't been in this series very long you have a big mouth.
It isn't your choice to know who I am and if I said I was Allan McNish, Bernie Ecclestone or James Tucker does that matter?? My opinions are worth no more or less than anyone elses - but at least I have an opinion to express and in the main the opinions are fair and follow a logic. You might not agree but then if you could articulate yourself beyond swearing there might be progress.
For someone who hasn't been in this series very long you have a big mouth.
Bellly said:
I really do not give a sh*t who you are.
So why do you keep asking who I am then?!Bellly said:
How can you expect to be taken seriously when you chose to hide your identity.
Explain how that would make a difference? If you knew who I was would it change your opinion of what I was posting?Bellly said:
Of course i have not been it Britcar very long, but i think that Simon and I have been accepted as normal people who see Britcar as a good friendly series. {and we won the overall championship by some fluke!}
If you want people to take your comments seriously, tell us who you are or shut the f**k up.
Well for someone who is a "normal" person and enjoys a friendly series you aren't displaying much friendship. If you want people to take your comments seriously, tell us who you are or shut the f**k up.
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