Abysmal Traffic Calming
Discussion
I don't have a picture of this one yet, but I have street view of the approximate location and a horror story.
This photo is while the village (A road) was a 30 zone.
Then the council put in a pedestrian crossing with traffic lights. Naturally, they decided that they needed to make a whole stretch through the village a 20 zone, and at the same time put in chicanes.
The worst of the aforementioned chicanes is on the left side of the road pictured, I believe roughly where the height restriction sign is (I'm too focused on the road to say exactly). And yes, this is on the approach to a blind hill on a corner.
I always approach this at 20 mph. It's an uphill struggle for my car (Skoda Citigo 60hp). Braking is much easier than accelerating. Hence a slower approach would not be appropriate. I'm young, so my reaction times are decent! I will approach in either 1st or 2nd gear - 1st has the advantage of quicker acceleration to 30 (here be the rev limiter), but 2nd gear means I don't need to shift if I need more speed (2nd will get me to 50). Also, 2nd gear is easier on the residents' ears.
Now, horror story time (no crash, fortunately). I was approaching this chicane in 2nd gear. The road ahead, as far as I could see, was clear. So I committed to the maneouver. Of course, Sod's law, there's an approaching delivery van/truck.. I think at about the speed limit. Appeared just after I'd committed.
To avoid a collision, I had a couple of options. I could hammer on the brakes and stop in the chicane. In this scenario, I'm dependent on the delivery driver responding appropriately. Or, I can accelerate through the chicane and clear it before he arrives. I have the acceleration to do this, but I need to keep my pedal on the metal.
I chose the latter. There was room to do it, and it didn't depend on the other driver stopping (who is potentially expecting me to accelerate through). I pulled the maneuver off cleanly, but there wasn't a lot of a margin to do this. I was also now doing ~40 mph. In a 20 zone. I slowed down, but can't help considering the situation if the other driver had been traveling faster. I think that I would have stopped, but would they? And then, I'm the one on the wrong side of the road...
Needless to say, the council have received a very angry letter emphasizing the speed I was forced to do by their scheme, and how had something gone wrong I could have lost control and ploughed into a child at 40 mph... I thought that the "think of the children" line would most affect them. I've seen SpeedWatch right on that stretch before. I really don't want the hassle of arguing something like this out in the courts when I have A level exams! Had there been a nice stripy van man, I'd have been in summons territory.
This photo is while the village (A road) was a 30 zone.
Then the council put in a pedestrian crossing with traffic lights. Naturally, they decided that they needed to make a whole stretch through the village a 20 zone, and at the same time put in chicanes.
The worst of the aforementioned chicanes is on the left side of the road pictured, I believe roughly where the height restriction sign is (I'm too focused on the road to say exactly). And yes, this is on the approach to a blind hill on a corner.
I always approach this at 20 mph. It's an uphill struggle for my car (Skoda Citigo 60hp). Braking is much easier than accelerating. Hence a slower approach would not be appropriate. I'm young, so my reaction times are decent! I will approach in either 1st or 2nd gear - 1st has the advantage of quicker acceleration to 30 (here be the rev limiter), but 2nd gear means I don't need to shift if I need more speed (2nd will get me to 50). Also, 2nd gear is easier on the residents' ears.
Now, horror story time (no crash, fortunately). I was approaching this chicane in 2nd gear. The road ahead, as far as I could see, was clear. So I committed to the maneouver. Of course, Sod's law, there's an approaching delivery van/truck.. I think at about the speed limit. Appeared just after I'd committed.
To avoid a collision, I had a couple of options. I could hammer on the brakes and stop in the chicane. In this scenario, I'm dependent on the delivery driver responding appropriately. Or, I can accelerate through the chicane and clear it before he arrives. I have the acceleration to do this, but I need to keep my pedal on the metal.
I chose the latter. There was room to do it, and it didn't depend on the other driver stopping (who is potentially expecting me to accelerate through). I pulled the maneuver off cleanly, but there wasn't a lot of a margin to do this. I was also now doing ~40 mph. In a 20 zone. I slowed down, but can't help considering the situation if the other driver had been traveling faster. I think that I would have stopped, but would they? And then, I'm the one on the wrong side of the road...
Needless to say, the council have received a very angry letter emphasizing the speed I was forced to do by their scheme, and how had something gone wrong I could have lost control and ploughed into a child at 40 mph... I thought that the "think of the children" line would most affect them. I've seen SpeedWatch right on that stretch before. I really don't want the hassle of arguing something like this out in the courts when I have A level exams! Had there been a nice stripy van man, I'd have been in summons territory.
750turbo said:
Perhaps you should just use the Bus in the future....
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
The bus service in this area is literally https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
. I don't have a lot of power to get me out of trouble. I dare say some of the encounters I whine about might seem a bit tame by the standards of more seasoned drivers, but I really don't appreciate being forced to break the law... by the same council that's going to make a quick buck if they catch me!lucido grigio said:
I have no idea how you ended up going from 20 to 40 whilst negotiaiting a chicane .
Who had priority at the chicane ?......
The other vehicle had priority, but was impossible to see until I was already committed. If you say use a slower approach, as I've mentioned I don't have the power to get out of trouble with that one. If I have to stop there, I'm Who had priority at the chicane ?......
ing myself, and then murdering my engine to get through.I will try to get a photo, and I might have been overzealous with the accelerator. However, as I've mentioned, braking is faster than accelerating. It can very much be a case of accelerate first and brake later.
Edited by Solocle on Thursday 18th May 18:28
DoubleD said:
Is the horror bit the car that you were driving? Or was it something else in the story?
It's that the traffic calming forced me to do such a speed that it would have meant a court summons. I've laid out the different courses of action that I could take, and of course, the car I'm driving is a factor in my decisions. If I'd been driving a Porsche, it would have been much easier to do. But I'm not some old person who may not put their foot down. This "road safety" scheme is extremely dangerous. Locals say things like:Unnamed Local said:
I read far more complaints of road safety since the traffic calming has been here than there was before
caelite said:
Yup, got the mother of all traffic calming measures at my college, 2 chicanes, both on opposite sides of a busy approach to a blind crest next to the smoking area where there are always crowds of people standing. There is also no place to pass before the chicane since people park all up and down the street during college hours. Oh AND it's a college so every second car is a 18 year old in a Corsa going flat out around the chicane, normally in the wet, they would only be doing 25-30 in a straight line if it wasn't there, but instead they are slinging there cars around it at 20-25 flat out for a bit of a laugh (which to be fair it kind of is when its quiet 
)
It's a major accident waiting to happen
As usual the high up google camera doesn't really show the crest, I certainly cant see over it until I am entering the chicane in my low down mx5.
Who's idea are these measures? A big amount of the highway's budget, making safety worse.)It's a major accident waiting to happen
As usual the high up google camera doesn't really show the crest, I certainly cant see over it until I am entering the chicane in my low down mx5.
herewego said:
I think you should take somebody out with you when you drive for a while as you don't seem to have much confidence, or maybe do a passplus course and show the instructor the locations where you struggle.
A lot of the time I have parents beside me... but I'm not lacking confidence, I just resent a "safety scheme" that forces you onto the wrong side of the road with a give way, when you can't see that it is clear to do so - making another vehicle slow down is against they highway code and unsafe if they are distracted. If there was a collision, it would likely be 50:50. The alternative is to speed up once commited and flout the law.Mike335i said:
That is the problem. You should be lacking confidence at this stage.
Seriously, there would not have been an accident as you would both have been doing 20mph and the road would be clear at the point of you committing to the maneuver. He would have seen you passing the chicane and slowed. You created the risk by speeding like that.
I suspect you were not prepared to come to a stop at the chicane and 'commited' to this some way before. What would you have done if a delivery van was parked there?
If you car is so slow you can't do a hill start (it isn't), then the problem is with you. I have driven the 60hp 1.0 engine and it is nippy enough in that car.
Just take it easy behind the wheel of the car, it's driving like what you describe that causes the need for traffic calming. We have all been there, thinking we are God's gift to driving. But eventually we learn we aren't and then we become safer drivers.
I have done more miles than you probably expect, so am more experienced than many of my age. I can definitely hill start, it just feels slow and sluggish when you start moving (of course I have to stop if there were vehicles coming through). I generally approach at 20, prepared to stop, then pass beyond the point of no return - doing so enables you to spend less time in the pinchpoint. I understand that other drivers should slow once you're committed, I just don't like putting my safety in the hands of somebody who could be a psycho who sees "priority over oncoming vehicles" as a carte blanche, or somebody who could be speeding and not realise that their brakes have failed... My point is that this pinchpoint is so unnecessary, there are several just a bit further along the road that aren't a problem (although they do have Seriously, there would not have been an accident as you would both have been doing 20mph and the road would be clear at the point of you committing to the maneuver. He would have seen you passing the chicane and slowed. You created the risk by speeding like that.
I suspect you were not prepared to come to a stop at the chicane and 'commited' to this some way before. What would you have done if a delivery van was parked there?
If you car is so slow you can't do a hill start (it isn't), then the problem is with you. I have driven the 60hp 1.0 engine and it is nippy enough in that car.
Just take it easy behind the wheel of the car, it's driving like what you describe that causes the need for traffic calming. We have all been there, thinking we are God's gift to driving. But eventually we learn we aren't and then we become safer drivers.
ed up priorities that could cause a traffic jam), and just behind the pinchpoint in the photo there is always a row of parked cars that act as natural calming and has been there since time immemorial. This scheme wasn't implemented due to collision, this scheme was implemented to "protect" a pedestrian crossing. Because traffic lights aren't enough? They threw in a 20 zone and build outs too. If the build out were a parked car, it'd be too close to the brow of a hill and I'd toot my horn preparing to pass it. I just don't think that is fair on residents who haven't gone and parked a car in a stupid place. The same residents who recognise that the road is now more dangerous than it was.JM said:
You complain about your underpowered car, but also say you accelerated from 20mph to 40mph in about 6 Meters.
If you are struggling to get a clear view ahead of oncoming traffic then you should if clear pull out to the centre line or across it to give a clearer view round the bend.
At least 20m, as I had to leave stopping distance as I pulled out. I also kept on the throttle longer than my manoeuvre took (only slightly, but probably 30->37 mph). Doing the physics yields 2.5 m/s^2 acceleration in 1.8s. If I had come to a halt, it would have taken me at least 2 seconds to clear the hazard (that's not counting getting the clutch right).If you are struggling to get a clear view ahead of oncoming traffic then you should if clear pull out to the centre line or across it to give a clearer view round the bend.
And yes, I know the centre line thing... I did. With the brow of the hill, it doesn't help too much.
Mike335i said:
It does seem like speeding up is precisely the opposite of what you should do if another car comes towards you in that situation, especially if there is any doubt about your cars performance. If you slow down, you have the option of stopping. If you speed up, you loose that option.
I see it the other way with my car's performance characteristics - if I initially brake, I can't build up speed. If I initially accelerate, I can still hammer on the anchors if necessary. In this case, I very quickly arrived at the conclusion that hitting the throttle would clear the hazard, so that's what I did. And that's what happened. However, the speed I achieved in doing so was illegal.Markbarry1977 said:
OP, if that situation is causing you concern then god help you if you ever have to drive in an unfamiliar large city during rush hour.
Seriously do the world a favour, get some more training or give back your license. You come accross as about as good a driver as my 70 year old gran was when she passed her test at 70 after my grandad died and she needed transport (bloody awful and dangerous)
I just think that it's Seriously do the world a favour, get some more training or give back your license. You come accross as about as good a driver as my 70 year old gran was when she passed her test at 70 after my grandad died and she needed transport (bloody awful and dangerous)
stupid to build a supposed safety feature on a blind hill. I've done rush hour, it's a cakewalk. The key is to not get annoyed about going slowly. It also gives you more time to read the signs if you're unfamiliar....JM said:
Do you notice other drivers struggling to negotiate this hazard?
E.g. if you are going in the opposite direction do you often have to slow down for cars coming towards you, or at busy times does a queue form waiting at the give-way line?
I slow down before I reach the pinch-point coming the other way, but I'm not generally there at busy times. From what I gather, there are regular traffic jams.E.g. if you are going in the opposite direction do you often have to slow down for cars coming towards you, or at busy times does a queue form waiting at the give-way line?
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