My DDR GT4 build
Discussion
Hi All,
I suspect I started like a lot of people with a do I, dont I type of start. In the end I decided to go for my build as it had been a lifetime dream and now at 29 it was probably the right time in my life to do so.
I actually looked into many kitcars, including cheaper ones (not sure cheap should be included anywhere in kitcar building mind you!) but basically the other half rule'd out a few...helmet required, hair would get messed up... there is a theme
So I considered an ultima, but I did want something a bit different and although ultima's look great it didn't quite push every button I wanted and although you could customise bits the body / shape was its own.
So I started looking further afield and came across many in the end. It was a company called ddr motorsport that I went with. One of the biggest bonus's is I could use an MR2 for all my donor parts,
Engine, drivetrain, electrics, suspension, brakes etc...
Making the learning curve for me simpler (Or I thought), these parts I would then refurbish as I wanted to work on a new, clean looking car and then finally rebuilt on to a tubular chassis.
Anyway I wanted to finally start a thread, because as I progress with the actual rebuild after the refurbishment I'm sure I'm going to have questions regarding the IVA although I've read the manual many times as its the first time the car will be built in the UK.
I have also started a blog which is an overview, rather than in depth technical guide of the refurbishment so far.
http://miamigt4kitcar.blogspot.co.uk/
their website is
www.ddrmotorsport.com
any views and tips already be great!
I suspect I started like a lot of people with a do I, dont I type of start. In the end I decided to go for my build as it had been a lifetime dream and now at 29 it was probably the right time in my life to do so.
I actually looked into many kitcars, including cheaper ones (not sure cheap should be included anywhere in kitcar building mind you!) but basically the other half rule'd out a few...helmet required, hair would get messed up... there is a theme
So I considered an ultima, but I did want something a bit different and although ultima's look great it didn't quite push every button I wanted and although you could customise bits the body / shape was its own.
So I started looking further afield and came across many in the end. It was a company called ddr motorsport that I went with. One of the biggest bonus's is I could use an MR2 for all my donor parts,
Engine, drivetrain, electrics, suspension, brakes etc...
Making the learning curve for me simpler (Or I thought), these parts I would then refurbish as I wanted to work on a new, clean looking car and then finally rebuilt on to a tubular chassis.
Anyway I wanted to finally start a thread, because as I progress with the actual rebuild after the refurbishment I'm sure I'm going to have questions regarding the IVA although I've read the manual many times as its the first time the car will be built in the UK.
I have also started a blog which is an overview, rather than in depth technical guide of the refurbishment so far.
http://miamigt4kitcar.blogspot.co.uk/
their website is
www.ddrmotorsport.com
any views and tips already be great!
Thanks for the warm welcome. I know ive chosen a challenge but I'm hoping one that will be worth it.
Khm - thanks for the idea on two windscreens and yes they are plastic and I've also told them they must all have an e marking or won't pass and see the road. The plastic windows, I always knew I could get them made over here in worse case scenario, just worried a little about the main windscreen. Anyone you recommend will be great if required.
After reading the IVA 270 odd pages close to 20 times, I believe I can get around all hurdles I've spotted so far.
I'm hoping the kit will be here in may, but shipping may well push this out, or late delivery of course. I'm just trying to make sure I do all work properly and to a good standard.
Anything you all learnt I'll definatly take on board as at the moment its all prep for the build.
Khm - thanks for the idea on two windscreens and yes they are plastic and I've also told them they must all have an e marking or won't pass and see the road. The plastic windows, I always knew I could get them made over here in worse case scenario, just worried a little about the main windscreen. Anyone you recommend will be great if required.
After reading the IVA 270 odd pages close to 20 times, I believe I can get around all hurdles I've spotted so far.
I'm hoping the kit will be here in may, but shipping may well push this out, or late delivery of course. I'm just trying to make sure I do all work properly and to a good standard.
Anything you all learnt I'll definatly take on board as at the moment its all prep for the build.
matlee said:
I've looked at this kit a few times but never realised it was could be done with an MR2 (I should pay more attention).
What sort of costs are we looking at when it comes to shipping the kit to the uk?
Shipping I'm expecting to be about £2500 + import tax. This kit car is far from the cheapest for this type of kitcar because of the shipping but at least its a bit different I suppose!What sort of costs are we looking at when it comes to shipping the kit to the uk?
Gingerbread Man said:
Looks nice. You mentioned taking the engine from the MR2. Will you being doing engine work on it as it looks a fast car and the engine should match it's looks!
At first I'm concentrating on getting it through the IVA, but have thought ahead regarding this area. So the valves have been lapped whilst I have the head off and the headgasket is being changed for a metal one so as I mod I don't have an issue. I know the MR2 engine I currently have, has a CT26 turbo although does have an aftermarket Piggyback ECU (and some other basic supporting mods), so I reckon currently about 235BHP. I will change to a CT20b turbo which was on the later models and also do fuelling at the same time + up the boost. Ill be happy with about 280BHP. The car will only weigh about 900 /950Kg so that should be fast enough for me.Fastpedeller said:
Forgive me asking the question but....... Is this a genuine car?
When I saw on the website the miriad of donor car options, I wondered if it was for real.
Have you seen the car 'in the flesh'?
Again, forgive me if I'm being ultra-cautious, but alarm bells started ringing somehow.
When I saw on the website the miriad of donor car options, I wondered if it was for real.
Have you seen the car 'in the flesh'?
Again, forgive me if I'm being ultra-cautious, but alarm bells started ringing somehow.
matlee said:
I've had a similar feeling. I've done numerous searches and all seem to include someone asking whether or not someone else has actually built one yet with nobody coming forward saying they have. The only 2 I can find are both the demo vehicles (the orange one and the blue one).
I really thought a car that looks that good and is that versatile (option wise) would have a much larger following.
You're both right, for such a lovely car you'd expect to see loads and completed ones. There appears to be very low number completed if any customer wise at the moment, I haven't seen one in the flesh, but the pictures etc... that I have been sent which are not in the public domain as I have raised questions definitely show the car exists as you wouldn't release them as there is no benefit to others.I really thought a car that looks that good and is that versatile (option wise) would have a much larger following.
I am their first UK based customer so I know there are risks and there are some others from other countries being the first as well but hopefully this helps broaden the market.
All of their updates are on their facebook page (news link on their website) which have been showing production of various cars. I spent a long time keeping an eye on kitcar manufacturers as its a tricky business but decided after a year of watching to go with them. I actually first saw it in the Sunday times.
matlee said:
I was having a browse through all the posts on the DDRGT4 facebook page and noticed some fella by the name of James from the UK post on there. Thought it might have been another uk resident taking the plunge as well but then realised it would more than likely be you.
How long are you expecting it to take to complete the build once the kit has arrived?
I will be keeping an eye on your blog and the IVA side of things and if it all goes to plan for you i may seriously consider one of these as my next build.
I'd like to have a running rolling chassis under 6months, as I've done a lot of prep. I can then work on the body / electrics. I'm sure I'll get through the IVA, everything is possible, just hope there aren't too many issues to work through.How long are you expecting it to take to complete the build once the kit has arrived?
I will be keeping an eye on your blog and the IVA side of things and if it all goes to plan for you i may seriously consider one of these as my next build.
Steve_D said:
Looks like you may need to shift some rear lights as you need reverse and the fog must be 100mm from a brake light.
Steve
Yep these are exactly the minor issues I've found, nothing major work wise as the holes aren't precut for the lights.Steve
pfedwards said:
Looks like a great car but for the amount of money you are planning to spend I would build in to your budget a couple of flights out to see the factory and check on your kits progress. It might seem like a lot of extra cost but I'm sure it will pay dividends in getting the build right and also giving you piece of mind. Face to face meetings build up a good rapport for the future numerous emails, etc.
I bet it would be great fun to go a meet the guys at the factory as well !!
(P.S. In business you'd call this Risk Assessment, Factory audit, Supplier Approval, Contract negotiation, etc etc)
I'm already going to Florida this year later on, If I need to I will pop down and say Hi, so far they've been great with my correspondence. I think unfortunatly being the first in the UK and to try and get through the IVA, a lot of the hurdles I will probably meet first and by myself from people ive spoken to regarding their bespoke builds...one of the pleasures of trying something new I guess I bet it would be great fun to go a meet the guys at the factory as well !!
(P.S. In business you'd call this Risk Assessment, Factory audit, Supplier Approval, Contract negotiation, etc etc)
Craig7l - Thanks for the reply and all your information. There was only one doubt I ever had in my mind and that was lack / ability to be able to see the quality beforehand. Photo's are all well and good, no matter how many extra photo's you have seen and close ups, But as you say that could be my brave / mad area. Everything else I've checked as much as possible.
Regarding 'checking a company out' as the best way to describe it, googling a company / searching the internet is no longer a good enough search in my books, the internet can be manipulated enough to show things in the light that you want as you said. Social Media on the other hand is much harder to manipulate because of the high human element to it. My research involved research into the person, the company, the history, using social media to find non business related profiles. Are family encouraging the team openly? Other people who had dealt with them? credible other businesses? From this I managed to find out the company was dealing with a university in Florida for their hybrid car project which is now in the public domain. (In the USA a project piece has to be sponsored by local companies to take place at the university, so the state is aware of them). Recently as well this, an IndyCar driver was happy to be shown at that same event with them. As well as this some other drivers / commentators have shown support previously. I could find public support for the company from family members, I could find some history on the people as well and the company.
Of course the risk is the same as any business at the moment regarding business risks, but that's down to us as the buyers to do our own protection regarding that. I weighted up the risks and went for it, I cant complain regarding communication with the team there I haven't been neglected at all yet.
I'll obviously feedback honestly as I progress, if there arent hurdles id be amazed, but its not often I say I hope to prove you wrong, but obviously for the benefit of myself I hope I do
No need to apologise of course for your view, but you'll need to remember in the future if my experience is ok how there is two sides to every coin when you express this view.
Ian_uk - yea I think it be nuts not to pop down as well. Only reason not too is if timescales don't allow as I do have other priorities whilst there.
Mrpink - Already discussing with others. Great minds think alike ;-)
Regarding 'checking a company out' as the best way to describe it, googling a company / searching the internet is no longer a good enough search in my books, the internet can be manipulated enough to show things in the light that you want as you said. Social Media on the other hand is much harder to manipulate because of the high human element to it. My research involved research into the person, the company, the history, using social media to find non business related profiles. Are family encouraging the team openly? Other people who had dealt with them? credible other businesses? From this I managed to find out the company was dealing with a university in Florida for their hybrid car project which is now in the public domain. (In the USA a project piece has to be sponsored by local companies to take place at the university, so the state is aware of them). Recently as well this, an IndyCar driver was happy to be shown at that same event with them. As well as this some other drivers / commentators have shown support previously. I could find public support for the company from family members, I could find some history on the people as well and the company.
Of course the risk is the same as any business at the moment regarding business risks, but that's down to us as the buyers to do our own protection regarding that. I weighted up the risks and went for it, I cant complain regarding communication with the team there I haven't been neglected at all yet.
I'll obviously feedback honestly as I progress, if there arent hurdles id be amazed, but its not often I say I hope to prove you wrong, but obviously for the benefit of myself I hope I do
No need to apologise of course for your view, but you'll need to remember in the future if my experience is ok how there is two sides to every coin when you express this view.Ian_uk - yea I think it be nuts not to pop down as well. Only reason not too is if timescales don't allow as I do have other priorities whilst there.
Mrpink - Already discussing with others. Great minds think alike ;-)
matlee said:
What are you hoping/expecting the finished cost is going to be?
I'm expecting to spend around £25k, the actual cost currently worked out is less but realisticly it will probably be higher then actual forecast as I change the quality of the finish / parts. Id obviously like it lower but that's what I'm expecting to come in at. I've actually been very lucky so far as I managed to buy a MR2 for the donor parts where the shell was rotten through and got a turbo for £1k. Off of that I took all Donor parts I needed and sold all the other parts.
I am keeping a spreadsheet of costs and will release it as I get towards the end so people have a good idea of costs involved with the project.
well those posts had me trawling the internet for hours, my missus was even happier
I do feel in a less risky situation,ignoring the SLC debarcle as i can only base it on what ive read. My stand point is I chose not to have a turnkey kitcar from outside the UK for 2 reasons;
1. I wanted to build it myself
2. I dont believe most foreign kitcar manufacturers can meet UK regs unless doing it day in day out and if it didnt meet it once the car was here, what then.
The reason being is, they are a business they need to get orders in cars out, as a home builder I can take my time and double checke everything. So in this case it will be down to me to make this car IVA compliant. Yes ill need to alter slight things to the cars original design / build but nothing I cant deal with.
If i get it through first time ill be over the moon, but im expecting to come out with some minor changes required like most builds, built in the UK.
I do feel in a less risky situation,ignoring the SLC debarcle as i can only base it on what ive read. My stand point is I chose not to have a turnkey kitcar from outside the UK for 2 reasons;
1. I wanted to build it myself
2. I dont believe most foreign kitcar manufacturers can meet UK regs unless doing it day in day out and if it didnt meet it once the car was here, what then.
The reason being is, they are a business they need to get orders in cars out, as a home builder I can take my time and double checke everything. So in this case it will be down to me to make this car IVA compliant. Yes ill need to alter slight things to the cars original design / build but nothing I cant deal with.
If i get it through first time ill be over the moon, but im expecting to come out with some minor changes required like most builds, built in the UK.
mrpink said:
woudn't mind but it wasn't even my car......... it was Craig's
I've not roped in friends much at this stage. That will come though I'm sure!I've started getting together a list of all the little bits I might need, like nut caps, track rod end covers.
I have a question I don't know if anyone can answer. When can a Nut be left exposed without a cap. i.e only on suspension? or is it a case of just cover everything you can.
If anyone has example photos of the protection they've done on nuts (outside the cabin) that be great as some guidance.
rdodger said:
Nut covers etc are really only used on open wheel cars. If you have full body then sharp edges are less of an issue.
I have just bought a polystyrene 100mm ball off of ebay to test for sharp edges on mine. Basically if the ball contacts it then it should have a 2.5mm radius.
Have a read of the manual http://www.completekitcar.co.uk/Resources/IVA%20M1...
Once you have been over it a few times it becomes a lot less daunting.
Mirrors and light positioning are 2 to look out for.
thanks Ive read the manual a fair few times but was unable to clearly tell how much they look into the sharp parts under the shell so to speak.I have just bought a polystyrene 100mm ball off of ebay to test for sharp edges on mine. Basically if the ball contacts it then it should have a 2.5mm radius.
Have a read of the manual http://www.completekitcar.co.uk/Resources/IVA%20M1...
Once you have been over it a few times it becomes a lot less daunting.
Mirrors and light positioning are 2 to look out for.
Mirrors was the intersting one i had already read regarding being to adjust from the drivers seat, based on the fact it wont have any working windows the mirrors I think will need stalks that come through into the cabin so can be adjusted from the drivers seat.
Lights is an area that needs some working out to meet the requirements but nothing major, just positioning.
Not too much other than whats on the blog.
Its a bit of a limbo time for me, so just finishing off the engine and reading the IVA manual over and over as I study pictures and designs to ensure I meet all the requirements so when it comes to the actual build I dont hit many hurdles I dont know about and have a plan on what im doing.
Its a bit of a limbo time for me, so just finishing off the engine and reading the IVA manual over and over as I study pictures and designs to ensure I meet all the requirements so when it comes to the actual build I dont hit many hurdles I dont know about and have a plan on what im doing.
I'm still continuing on with the project obviously and I'm still hopeful of the outcome I want. If it all goes wrong then I will post up on here, but for now I'll just use this thread to concentrate on the build itself.
I'm visiting in July to say Hi to the guys themselves, so looking forward to that.
Regarding posting on other forums, I've posted on a few and its hard enough to keep up to date on them, but feel free to post yourselves linking to the blog
I'm visiting in July to say Hi to the guys themselves, so looking forward to that.
Regarding posting on other forums, I've posted on a few and its hard enough to keep up to date on them, but feel free to post yourselves linking to the blog
camosoul said:
I live in Florida and have had my eye on them for several years. The story of the slow development, nowhere can I find build logs/blogs/threads...
I have the bright idea to put a VW TDI in a GT4... Been my dream for at least 6 years now, since I saw the blue one. For those who don't know, the VW TDI Jetta (Bora) can be made into an 8 second daily driver that gets 50+ mpg and lasts 300K miles while running on WMO. And, no, that's not Internet armchairing. I've seen many. Driven a few. Wrenched on them, too. Not much HP, but boatloads of torque... Among those who like to mod the TDIs, it's almost become a standard to smoke any muscle car with a 4-door diesel. My Passat, until it was totaled by a 12 point buck last night, was one of them. Extreme sleeper...
But anyway...
I hate Miami, and I live about 500 miles away from Miami... But closer than Texas. ;-)
Just seems odd to me. Why are they so unknown? Why aren't there any? I emailed a few times, was told it can be tagged and made street legal in Florida. Drive it every day on the road...
I'm watching this very closely. Now that my car is a mess, I'm on the ragged edge of sacking-up and doing this. If the design can be altered to use my Passat's parts, I have the donor taken care of...
I want to know what the usual delay between up-front and delivery is, but... It doesn't seem to happen enough to have that information.
I know the delay with mine and others who have ordered who I have spoken to has been the windscreens and having to go to a new manufacturer. I also think this caused a backlog, Currently my order is 4 weeks past original date, I don't expect my car to be on a ship whilst I'm over there, I expect to be able to see it and then have it ship shortly after my visit.I have the bright idea to put a VW TDI in a GT4... Been my dream for at least 6 years now, since I saw the blue one. For those who don't know, the VW TDI Jetta (Bora) can be made into an 8 second daily driver that gets 50+ mpg and lasts 300K miles while running on WMO. And, no, that's not Internet armchairing. I've seen many. Driven a few. Wrenched on them, too. Not much HP, but boatloads of torque... Among those who like to mod the TDIs, it's almost become a standard to smoke any muscle car with a 4-door diesel. My Passat, until it was totaled by a 12 point buck last night, was one of them. Extreme sleeper...
But anyway...
I hate Miami, and I live about 500 miles away from Miami... But closer than Texas. ;-)
Just seems odd to me. Why are they so unknown? Why aren't there any? I emailed a few times, was told it can be tagged and made street legal in Florida. Drive it every day on the road...
I'm watching this very closely. Now that my car is a mess, I'm on the ragged edge of sacking-up and doing this. If the design can be altered to use my Passat's parts, I have the donor taken care of...
I want to know what the usual delay between up-front and delivery is, but... It doesn't seem to happen enough to have that information.
The unknown bit to the company is the only bit to me that makes you think why, its such a nice design, however in the same essence I know their first car made it on to the road last year and their 2nd demo one obviously recently so in terms of being road legal and on the market its not long. I guess with my experience we will all find out the answers soon enough. On a change of note I'm happy with the engine work I've been doing and that's beginning to come together.
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