Winter tyres + man-maths = Saab 9000??
Discussion
27 years ago I bought my first car, an Opel Manta, for £350.
And despite me loving it to bits and it serving me well for several years, with hindsight, it was an unmitigated shed.
A rear wing that was held in place with pop rivets, a smoky engine, leaks from the rust holes under the vinyl roof and a tendency to cut out at random and for an unspecified length of time were just a few of its charms.
What, you may ask, has this to do with today's trip across the M62 to Bradford?
Well, for the exact same sum, I today purchased my winter wheels and tyres. And they came attached to this....
1996 Saab 9000 Griffin 2.3 turbo. 6 months T&T, lots of toys and plenty of wafty automatic poke. With some pretty lightly used Nokians already fitted.
Cruising home in absolute comfort, I reflected on how much car a small sum of money can buy these days, especially if it is a bit thirsty and lacking in image.
So far as I can tell, everything on it works, the previous owner spend £264 in September getting the climate control repaired and recharged and there is a big wedge of paperwork to back up mileage and service history.
The arches are rust free, the underside looks pretty damn good and the interior is very tidy. It looks nearly as tidy in the flesh as in the picture with just a little lacquer peel by the boot lid and some (very common) bubbling on the screen pillars to let it down.
Obviously it's early days yet, but so far I'm pretty happy with my man-maths tyre purchase!!
And despite me loving it to bits and it serving me well for several years, with hindsight, it was an unmitigated shed.
A rear wing that was held in place with pop rivets, a smoky engine, leaks from the rust holes under the vinyl roof and a tendency to cut out at random and for an unspecified length of time were just a few of its charms.
What, you may ask, has this to do with today's trip across the M62 to Bradford?
Well, for the exact same sum, I today purchased my winter wheels and tyres. And they came attached to this....
1996 Saab 9000 Griffin 2.3 turbo. 6 months T&T, lots of toys and plenty of wafty automatic poke. With some pretty lightly used Nokians already fitted.
Cruising home in absolute comfort, I reflected on how much car a small sum of money can buy these days, especially if it is a bit thirsty and lacking in image.
So far as I can tell, everything on it works, the previous owner spend £264 in September getting the climate control repaired and recharged and there is a big wedge of paperwork to back up mileage and service history.
The arches are rust free, the underside looks pretty damn good and the interior is very tidy. It looks nearly as tidy in the flesh as in the picture with just a little lacquer peel by the boot lid and some (very common) bubbling on the screen pillars to let it down.
Obviously it's early days yet, but so far I'm pretty happy with my man-maths tyre purchase!!
Thanks for the kind comments chaps! 
Didn't get a chance to take any better pictures today, and the light was very poor all day anyway, but I've had a closer look and the only additional faults I could find were:-
Didn't get a chance to take any better pictures today, and the light was very poor all day anyway, but I've had a closer look and the only additional faults I could find were:-
- One in-op number plate light, now fixed
- One headlight wiper parks a bit randomly
Had a bit of an issue with the car randomly misting up quite badly in wet weather and then suddenly clearing again.
A bit of investigation suggested that the air-con compressor wasn't kicking in very often and as often as not a sharp flick to the relay would set it running. Opened the relay and the contacts had pretty much turned to carbon dust.
A quick rummage in one of my many boxes of dead Saab parts produced an identical relay, fitted and the compressor seems to be kicking in regularly now. No misting up today, but it was dry all day, so we'll see what happens when the rains return...
Took advantage of the sun to take a few snaps (although the car is pretty filthy)
Plenty of tread on G2's
A fairly clean engine bay. No rust creeping into any of the under-bonnet bodywork and the plating of the fixings and brackets is almost like new. Puts my 8 year newer (but higher mileage) Monaro to absolute shame.
Boot appears to have hardly been used. Spare tyre has never been on car. Tool kit complete.
All 4 arches are utterly minty!!
Wood and (some) leather
Big bum!!
You can just see the lacquer peel on top of the rear wing. Does let the car down but really trying to avoid bad thoughts about getting it sorted!!
Lovely day
OCD alert - that headlight wiper is annoying me out of all proportion to the seriousness of the issue!!!
A bit of investigation suggested that the air-con compressor wasn't kicking in very often and as often as not a sharp flick to the relay would set it running. Opened the relay and the contacts had pretty much turned to carbon dust.
A quick rummage in one of my many boxes of dead Saab parts produced an identical relay, fitted and the compressor seems to be kicking in regularly now. No misting up today, but it was dry all day, so we'll see what happens when the rains return...
Took advantage of the sun to take a few snaps (although the car is pretty filthy)
Plenty of tread on G2's
A fairly clean engine bay. No rust creeping into any of the under-bonnet bodywork and the plating of the fixings and brackets is almost like new. Puts my 8 year newer (but higher mileage) Monaro to absolute shame.
Boot appears to have hardly been used. Spare tyre has never been on car. Tool kit complete.
All 4 arches are utterly minty!!
Wood and (some) leather
Big bum!!
You can just see the lacquer peel on top of the rear wing. Does let the car down but really trying to avoid bad thoughts about getting it sorted!!
Lovely day
OCD alert - that headlight wiper is annoying me out of all proportion to the seriousness of the issue!!!
I saw it in the classified ads on UK Saabs.
The missus is driving it today!! She hadn't driven an auto for 30 years, so gave her a quick refresher last night. She was fine with starting, stopping and reversing, but for some reason got in a flap with the indicators and wipers - even though they are on the same side as her daily!!! Bless
The missus is driving it today!! She hadn't driven an auto for 30 years, so gave her a quick refresher last night. She was fine with starting, stopping and reversing, but for some reason got in a flap with the indicators and wipers - even though they are on the same side as her daily!!! Bless
Gave the old girl a mini-service at the weekend as the weather was fine, oil flush and change and swapped the wheels front to rear to even out the wear rate.
I thought it was odd that the rear wheels were balanced with stick on weights inside the rim, whilst the fronts had hammer on weights on the inside lip??
Then when I drove off I understood why - tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap... really loud!!
Stopped to investigate and the stick on weights, now on the front, were just barely clipping the brake calipers.
Since the contact was minimal and lead is softer than steel, I decided that I could safely leave it alone and the caliper should have clearanced the weight after a couple of miles....
2 days commute and 120 miles later and... tap, tap, tap, tap bloody tap!!!
Seems that lead is more durable than I gave it credit for!!
On the plus side, had a crawl underneath whilst swapping the wheels and it is pretty clean underneath too
I thought it was odd that the rear wheels were balanced with stick on weights inside the rim, whilst the fronts had hammer on weights on the inside lip??
Then when I drove off I understood why - tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap... really loud!!
Stopped to investigate and the stick on weights, now on the front, were just barely clipping the brake calipers.
Since the contact was minimal and lead is softer than steel, I decided that I could safely leave it alone and the caliper should have clearanced the weight after a couple of miles....
2 days commute and 120 miles later and... tap, tap, tap, tap bloody tap!!!
Seems that lead is more durable than I gave it credit for!!
On the plus side, had a crawl underneath whilst swapping the wheels and it is pretty clean underneath too
Edited by 99t on Tuesday 26th November 21:41
Two months on and not too much to report really. Fluid levels are static and everything is still working. A slight water leak into the boot by one of the rear lights needs looking into, if it ever stops raining, but that's about it
I'm loving the comfy ride and laid back auto 'box and even though the handling could never even loosely be described as sporty, I think it's fair to say I've rather fallen for the old girl's relaxed charms!!
Getting about 26mpg overall which is about as good as one could hope for from one of these. With a manual box, the same 2.3 engine is meant to be capable of mid thirties mpg, so whilst it niggles slightly to know I'm losing 10mpg just for not having to change gear, so long as I keep my usage level sensible, it shouldn't become an issue.
Edit to add: of course, I should have predicted that since buying my "winter wheels" there hasn't been any hint of us having a proper winter around here - I've barely even needed to clear the windscreen in the mornings!
I'm loving the comfy ride and laid back auto 'box and even though the handling could never even loosely be described as sporty, I think it's fair to say I've rather fallen for the old girl's relaxed charms!!
Getting about 26mpg overall which is about as good as one could hope for from one of these. With a manual box, the same 2.3 engine is meant to be capable of mid thirties mpg, so whilst it niggles slightly to know I'm losing 10mpg just for not having to change gear, so long as I keep my usage level sensible, it shouldn't become an issue.
Edit to add: of course, I should have predicted that since buying my "winter wheels" there hasn't been any hint of us having a proper winter around here - I've barely even needed to clear the windscreen in the mornings!
Edited by 99t on Sunday 26th January 11:36
Finally some drama to report!!
Was nearly home from work one day last week when I became aware of the exhaust scraping on bumps which it never usually does.
Upon inspection, 5 out of 6 exhaust rubbers had failed / disappeared and the whole system was only attached to the turbo at the front and by the one remaining rubber on the tailpipe.
How that one held on I don't know because it had stretched to about twice its original length! No wonder the exhaust was sagging in the middle!!
Fortunately my spares collection yielded six new / good used rubbers and with a little assistance from a jack the exhaust is back where it should be. And miraculously not blowing anywhere
Was nearly home from work one day last week when I became aware of the exhaust scraping on bumps which it never usually does.
Upon inspection, 5 out of 6 exhaust rubbers had failed / disappeared and the whole system was only attached to the turbo at the front and by the one remaining rubber on the tailpipe.
How that one held on I don't know because it had stretched to about twice its original length! No wonder the exhaust was sagging in the middle!!
Fortunately my spares collection yielded six new / good used rubbers and with a little assistance from a jack the exhaust is back where it should be. And miraculously not blowing anywhere
With the MOT looming, I suddenly found myself without headlights the other night. Not ideal when you live out in the sticks!!
A few flicks of the headlight relay revealed the culprit pretty quickly, and a quick Google revealed that dry joints are common on this particular relay. A short session with the soldering iron and all seems well again
A few flicks of the headlight relay revealed the culprit pretty quickly, and a quick Google revealed that dry joints are common on this particular relay. A short session with the soldering iron and all seems well again
Looking a bit like it should have a "Police Aware" sticker on it at the moment!!
Just waiting for new brakes all round to arrive. Then it'll be MOT time.
Not quite sure what to do with the Griffin. It's a lovely old thing to waft around in and has a real feel of quality to it, but there are a few jobs starting to stack up..
Lacquer peel on rear wing getting worse very quickly
Screen pillar rust is slowly creeping, nearside not too bad
Offside looks ominous though, especially as windscreen is starting to delaminate
Options as I see them are:-
Just waiting for new brakes all round to arrive. Then it'll be MOT time.
Not quite sure what to do with the Griffin. It's a lovely old thing to waft around in and has a real feel of quality to it, but there are a few jobs starting to stack up..
Lacquer peel on rear wing getting worse very quickly
Screen pillar rust is slowly creeping, nearside not too bad
Offside looks ominous though, especially as windscreen is starting to delaminate
Options as I see them are:-
- MOT and then sell as is, I'd probably get most of my money back. Not really ready to part with it though.
- Run as bangernomics winter wheels, do just enough work to keep reliable but no more. Probably the sensible option.
- Pull the screen, see just how bad things are and if not terminal, fix properly and paint, also paint rear wing. Even doing all work bar the paint myself, this would cost more than I paid for the car, and I doubt I would ever see the money back. Would be very satisfying to make the car near mint however.
- If screen rust is terminal break for excellent B234, leather, winter tyres and other good bits. Weigh rest in and probably get money back in full. Or bodge screen back in and do option two for a couple of years, then break.
V8 FOU said:
..change the trans oil. These autos are very weak..
Yes so I understand. The previous owner changed the gearbox oil and filter a couple of years ago, it really hasn't done many miles since, so should be ok for a while yet, hopefully. If the autobox fails at some point in the future and the car is otherwise sound, I would be tempted to convert it to manual and go seeking some serious power as it would make quite a sleeper...NiceCupOfTea said:
It was supposed to last me one winter, I still have it now and it has been fantastic.
Hmm sounds familiar!! The problem with cheap cars is that you start with low expectations, so if a banger then gives good service it's easy to feel like it is owed something in return. It becomes like an aging family pet, a bit scabby, starting to go a bit deaf and blind and with a dodgy hip, but still full of life and character. Makes putting it out of (our) misery difficult...
Notadoctor said:
50p says you'll have a mint Aero (car not choc) by summer that'll increase in value and classic status.
Actually I'd take that bet. Unless the MOT is an utter disaster (and I can't see it) I think I'll be sticking with the Griffin.Unless of course a really nice Aero turns up locally at a price that "would be rude not to"
There are two reasons I would keep the Griffin over an Aero (which would HAVE to be a manual)
One is the "magic carpet" non-sports suspension fitted as standard, that really does do amazing things to the road surfaces around here. And which an Aero would lack.
Two bizarrely enough is the autobox, the potential Achilles heel, which makes it the only auto I own.
These two things together make it a supremely relaxing way to travel when I'm really not in the mood for driving!! Plus, of course, we might actually get some snow this winter!!
Edited by 99t on Friday 15th December 08:03
Currently running without an APC (boost control) valve fitted after mine failed electrically and wouldn't respond to re-soldering the wires internally.
New valve is on order but for the moment boost control is by right foot only and it has turned the Griffin into a proper old school torque monster!
God knows what sort of power it would be producing if I floored it (I haven't dared due to a desire not to grenade anything) but tentative 1/4 throttle prods result in the boost needle flicking past the end of the red sector and massive wheel spin in 3rd gear!
New valve is on order but for the moment boost control is by right foot only and it has turned the Griffin into a proper old school torque monster!
God knows what sort of power it would be producing if I floored it (I haven't dared due to a desire not to grenade anything) but tentative 1/4 throttle prods result in the boost needle flicking past the end of the red sector and massive wheel spin in 3rd gear!
Edited by 99t on Tuesday 20th January 09:15
My inner hooligan has quite enjoyed acting as manual (right foot) boost controller this week in the absence of a working boost control valve.
Spool up has been viciously quick at times, so much so that I nearly ran into the back of someone I was about to overtake as it came on boost so much sooner and harder than expected!! Ahem.
Not sure the winter tyres have enjoyed the extra boost quite as much as I have though, although they did finally get to sample a little snow this week!
Fortunately, for both car and licence, my new (to me) T5 APC valve arrived today, tested ok and has been duly fitted. All good, boosting to mid-red on full throttle, which is a bit higher than it ever went previously so maybe the APC valve was always a bit duff? T5 valves are a bit notorious for it I guess. May consider a T7 valve conversion if this one packs in as they are meant to be better.
Anyway for now the ultimate performance is still pretty good for a big old bus, more progressive and less raw in delivery perhaps, but still very decent. It feels like it would stay with my Monaro into 3 figures now which it never has before...
Spool up has been viciously quick at times, so much so that I nearly ran into the back of someone I was about to overtake as it came on boost so much sooner and harder than expected!! Ahem.
Not sure the winter tyres have enjoyed the extra boost quite as much as I have though, although they did finally get to sample a little snow this week!
Fortunately, for both car and licence, my new (to me) T5 APC valve arrived today, tested ok and has been duly fitted. All good, boosting to mid-red on full throttle, which is a bit higher than it ever went previously so maybe the APC valve was always a bit duff? T5 valves are a bit notorious for it I guess. May consider a T7 valve conversion if this one packs in as they are meant to be better.
Anyway for now the ultimate performance is still pretty good for a big old bus, more progressive and less raw in delivery perhaps, but still very decent. It feels like it would stay with my Monaro into 3 figures now which it never has before...
NiceCupOfTea said:
Those APC valves do have a reputation for failing, and second hand ones are a bit of a lottery. IIRC my dad ended up buying a new genuine Saab one to fix his boosting issues.
Yes I knew buying a used T5 APC solenoid was a risk, but so far I seem to have struck lucky by doing so as it's still boosting nicely.In other news, having disconnected the battery to clear any ECU adaptation prior to fitting my "new" solenoid, I couldn't find my glasses anywhere yesterday so had to revert to my spare pair.
Having done about 70 miles since then, I woke up about 3am this morning having an "oh crap!" moment as I remembered where I had left them - on top of the battery... Assumed they are lost forever, turned over and went back to sleep.
Checked this morning and sure enough no glasses on top of the battery. Looked around the engine bay more in hope than expectation and there they were resting on top of the gearbox!
A tad oily but not even scratched!!
Thanks very much to the blind b
d in a transit van that decided not to brake yesterday.
Doesn't look too bad at first glance but it was a 30mph+ impact whilst I was stationary so it is goosed underneath, boot floor pushed in and nearside rear wing kinked behind the wheel arch.
Judicious use of a sledgehammer and a block of wood on the slam panel last night means that the boot at least closes again now.
The old girl still drives perfectly, the lights work, and there are no sharp edges or bits hanging off, so ok to continue to use I think. Just means any plans I had for tidying the paintwork and making mint are now pointless.
At least this happened before I spent any cash I guess!
As of now this is a proper bangernomics thread, I'll run her 'till something breaks or she fails the MOT and then sadly break / scrap.
d in a transit van that decided not to brake yesterday.Doesn't look too bad at first glance but it was a 30mph+ impact whilst I was stationary so it is goosed underneath, boot floor pushed in and nearside rear wing kinked behind the wheel arch.
Judicious use of a sledgehammer and a block of wood on the slam panel last night means that the boot at least closes again now.
The old girl still drives perfectly, the lights work, and there are no sharp edges or bits hanging off, so ok to continue to use I think. Just means any plans I had for tidying the paintwork and making mint are now pointless.
At least this happened before I spent any cash I guess!
As of now this is a proper bangernomics thread, I'll run her 'till something breaks or she fails the MOT and then sadly break / scrap.
I think people are hanging onto the good ones, but they can and do rust structurally, mainly around the back end which has resulted in many being broken.
Gearboxes, though better than C900 ones, are far from bullet-proof, especially once the boost starts being increased so this will have accounted for a few too.
I would definitely have another 9000, but I fear the odds of finding one, especially an Aero, as sound as this one was, for even vaguely sensible money, are very slim...
Gearboxes, though better than C900 ones, are far from bullet-proof, especially once the boost starts being increased so this will have accounted for a few too.
I would definitely have another 9000, but I fear the odds of finding one, especially an Aero, as sound as this one was, for even vaguely sensible money, are very slim...
So despite its wounding, the 9000 passed another MOT yesterday and still drives beautifully.
The list of advisories is growing though, now including headlight output and the state of the exhaust.
Lights can be re-silvered and exhausts obtained easily enough but the will to spend the money, on what is effectively a write off, is lacking.
The list of advisories is growing though, now including headlight output and the state of the exhaust.
Lights can be re-silvered and exhausts obtained easily enough but the will to spend the money, on what is effectively a write off, is lacking.
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