Ferrari F430 Spider

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mwstewart

Original Poster:

7,608 posts

188 months

Sunday 22nd June 2014
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Those who have read my M3 thread will know I was hunting for a Rosso (red) Spider with tan interior, but in the end I decided I would be happier in something slightly more toned down. I put a deposit on this Grigio Titanio Spider last week and will be collecting it at the beginning of August. The dealer is being very helpful in that respect by waiting for me to complete and move house; apparently a lot of his customers are collectors and don't tend to collect for anything up to six months - interesting!

The car is flawless and I really can't wait to collect it.

The spec is as follows:
2006
27k Miles
Full Ferrari Service History
6 Speed Manual
Grigio Titainio Exterior
Rosso Leather Interior
Carbon Fibre Driving Zone Trim
Ferrari Navigation and telephone module

The Dealer photos:








This thread won't be updated frequently like my others as I'm not planning to modify it in any way smile

Famous last words..

mwstewart

Original Poster:

7,608 posts

188 months

Monday 23rd June 2014
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Thanks all thumbup

I really wanted a manual; that open metal gate is something I always associated with Ferrari. I don't have anything against semi-automated changes - I had an SMG M3 some years ago and enjoyed it - but I still really like changing gear myself.

Grey won't be to everyone's tastes and I do understand why.

I can't wait to collect smile

mwstewart

Original Poster:

7,608 posts

188 months

Monday 23rd June 2014
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Thanks all. No Ferrari jacket and hat, nor mods...yet laugh


Craigwww said:
Congrats on your first Ferrari purchase. Lovely colour and condition. As a fellow manual F430 owner (also E46 M3), you have picked the right gearbox in my opinion. I also believe that the manuals will become more sought after in years to come as the last of the proper V8 manual Ferraris.

Just a friendly tip, if the gear change is not silky smooth, don't listen to the old "they all do that" argument from the dealer, they don't. I had some "notchy" 2nd gear issues with mine at 18k and it took me a while to trace the issue to a cracked plastic reverse gear bushing. I swapped it out with a Hill Engineering stainless steel one and the gear change is now sublime. A few other owners have done that same after being told it's a common characteristic of the car.

If you are going to use main dealers, beware big bills, even if the car is perfect just now. These cars chew through wishbones, ball joints, bushings, random underbody nuts and bolts & o2 sensors like SMG M3's through salmon relays. Also loose wing mirrors, sit in the car with the engine running and check there is no visible vibration of the wing mirrors, mine has been tightened 3 times now in 3k miles and they're a pain to strip down. Also worth checking if the exhaust manifolds have been changed already, if not budget another 3-4k for that as they will inevitably leak soon and can cause major problems.

Total cost of service/maintenance of my 'mint' car in 18 months of ownership is around 8k but that's all been work from a main dealer as I like to keep the car pristine and don't have time for tinkering myself.

Anyway I know your handy with a spanner so I wouldn't worry too much. It's all worth it, nothing drives like a Ferrari does. Enjoy :-)
Thanks Craig. The car comes with a comprehensive one year warranty which includes the manifolds. There was an invoice in the recent history for a manifold leak. Ferrari sorted it. I know the pre-cats degrade and can enter the engine, but I'm not well versed on leaks - what causes them?

The ball joints have just been replaced, but if they go again within a short period I would look to re-engineer the arms with stronger joints.

mwstewart

Original Poster:

7,608 posts

188 months

Wednesday 2nd July 2014
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Thanks all. Video to follow thumbup

mwstewart

Original Poster:

7,608 posts

188 months

Thursday 3rd July 2014
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Oh no. A list of potential modifications laugh

mwstewart

Original Poster:

7,608 posts

188 months

Thursday 3rd July 2014
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AndyBrew said:
stunning, just stunning!
Thanks. I see you have a black Scud - awesome!

mwstewart

Original Poster:

7,608 posts

188 months

Friday 4th July 2014
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thumbup

mwstewart

Original Poster:

7,608 posts

188 months

Wednesday 13th August 2014
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I said I wouldn't modify it, but...

I'm having the steering wheel trimmed to my own design by Jack at Royal Steering wheels.

He's starting on it when back from holiday on 4th September

I also found a photo online of another Grigio Silverstone car but with a red roof (I got the colour wrong in my original post; it's Silverstone not Titanio). I'm currently getting quotes for a roof re-trim.




Edited by mwstewart on Tuesday 15th March 13:08

mwstewart

Original Poster:

7,608 posts

188 months

Monday 25th August 2014
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Erudite geezer said:
Mr mwstewart Sir, what are your thoughts on the Ferrari wingshields/ badges?

Personally I think no Ferrari should leave the factory without a pair.

Considered getting these for your F430?
I completely agree. I've had a pair of Scuderia Shields on order for a couple of weeks so all being well they will be here next week. The factory ordered shields are £4500 but that price includes a slightly different pair of front wings which are pressed to recess the shields.

I'll have to make do with the shields stuck directly to my wings.

mwstewart

Original Poster:

7,608 posts

188 months

Monday 25th August 2014
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CB2152 said:
Have you seen the "First World Problems" thread recently? hehe
laugh


mwstewart

Original Poster:

7,608 posts

188 months

Wednesday 27th August 2014
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Erwin1978 said:
Love the red fabric for the roof! With you being so focussed on OEM will anything other than a factory supplied roof drop the value of the car hugely? Especially with such a lovely manual 430 (which is bound to increase). Or will you keep the original roof and swap again when it is time to move on? I'm always enjoying your threads and love the minute details and craftsmanship, so please do not consider my comment a slight on your behalf. Cheers!
I'm going to use http://www.kbaggstrimming.co.uk/Gallery_Marque/Gal... for the retrim because they already have a pattern for the F430, so as you suggest I can keep the original roof. To be perfectly honest except for the mechanical parts none of the Ferrari parts are particularly great quality, so I almost expect the replacement to be an upgrade smile


mwstewart

Original Poster:

7,608 posts

188 months

Wednesday 27th August 2014
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I was initially very disappointed with the car, primairly I think because the build quality came as a shock after the kind of performance cars I've owned, and still do (M3). I wasn't quite prepared for what is considered 'normal' within the realms of supercar ownership! I would place the general trim/interior/bodywork fastening quality on par with a Mk4 Fiesta, but with a fabric roof. Don't get me wrong, it isn't terrible, but there is a gulf between it and for example my E46 M3, which let's face it is an old car now. I feel magazines and internet reviews serve to create a kind of romance and aura around these cars that in my opinion isn't fully justified.

I am perhaps being critical because I like well-made things and my expectations were off, but essentially a Ferrari is a great chassis and engine with some - very - nicely designed parts screwed on afterwards in a way only the Italians can. I've had a nosey around some of the trim and fastenings etc. and the best way to sum it up would be: good concepts but sometimes the execution is poor smile I will be improving some of the trim in due course.

Handling wise it is very good but I need at least another month with it before I've raised my driving to the point where I can explot its limits. On the legal side of a ton my modified m3 is a sharper handling car, and if there wasn't a power difference between the two there would be little in it on a twisty road, however the mid engine balance of the Ferrari can be felt at all times and in fairness as a car it doesn't begin to shine until well into prison-sentance territory. This is where the gap between the two cars opens up.

As other reviews have covered the F430 can pootle along quite happily if it needs to, though I have noticed that after 30 minutes or so of heavy stop/start traffic the clutch can judder so that's something that is best avoided. With the Manettino set to 'wet/slippery' the suspension becomes very pliable, comfortable in fact, though with eight ball joints linking wheels to chassis any transition in road surface is always immediately felt despite the comfortable damping.

The engine is as expected: a masterpiece. I thought the CSL airbox was glorious until I heard the F430; it has such vocal talent and such a wide range of sounds that one can almost play it like an instrument! Between 7k and 8.5k it's simply awesome and it's the first car I've owned that I would call fast. I think any more power than this would just frustate me on the public roads.

Back to the theme of the first paragraph, something has already gone wrong. I dropped off the car this morning to Graypaul in Nottingham as a section of the magnesium roof frame has cracked. I had the sense to buy an extended warranty but this part is being covered under the supplying dealers warranty. I've asked Ferrari to check over the roof to ensure there are no alignment issues or anything else - for example snapped elastic under the fabric - that will cause the issue to reoccur. I had to take a photo as I ended up parked next to a 458 also finished in Grigio Silverstone.


I did find last week that the car has Capristo brackets fitted to the rear silencer which is a sure sign the previous owner knew about the OEM manifold issue and F430 ownership in general, so that's good. In spite of the brackets I have just ordered a pair of stainless tubular manifolds as I couldn't shake the feeling that I was driving around in a grenade with the OEM manifolds still fitted.


I expect to update in a months time and by then have fallen in love with the car. It has happenend before hehe

Edited by mwstewart on Tuesday 15th March 13:11

mwstewart

Original Poster:

7,608 posts

188 months

Monday 1st September 2014
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Max M4X WW said:
Being a serial Fiesta owner like yourself Mark that had me in stitches laugh
Haha, you will also apprecaite the electronic release button for the glove box:


mwstewart

Original Poster:

7,608 posts

188 months

Monday 1st September 2014
quotequote all
Cheers smile

Scuderia Shield copies. These are gel badges and I've since decided to go for a replica enamel badge version produced by someone on Ferrari Chat.


My replacement manifolds have arrived. They are mande by 'Top Speed' http://www.topspeedauto.com/ and cost an incredible £655 including delivery for the pair. They are a 4-1 design which optimises power in the top end of the rev range. I chose them after looking at the alternatives;

Fabspeed/Agency power - Quality of construiction appears identical to Top Speed except for the flange, which is cast and of better quality. £1,600 ish
Capristo - As above excpet these are a 4-2-1 design which optimises mid-range torque rather than top end. £3,676.45.
Supersprint - Of the manifolds I have seen these are clearly the best design and quality. £3338.23
Why am I replacing the manifolds? The OEM Ferrari manifolds contain a pre-car and are prone to cracking, and due to the route the primaries take around the chassis, debris can collect close to the exhaust ports and enter the engine on the over-run. The manifolds were revised in 2008 and called 'Mk2', but even these fail. I'm not interested in additional power but this is a welcome side effect due to the removal of the pre-cats in all of the after market manifolds.
Why have I chosen Top Speed? I don't like how certain components attract a premium just because of the target vehcile or market, for example the often disproportionate cost of powder coating/refurbishing alloy wheels just because they are a car fashion accessory, or the price of certain components for premium or exotic cars. I chose the Top Speed manifolds because they are exceptionally well-priced and appeared in photos to be procuded to a standard which meant they comfortably out-lasted the OEM manifolds. I beleive they are new to market hence I was happy to treat them as an evaluation.

What are they like?
The manifolds have been TIG welded. It's not artwork quality but perfectly functional and decent quality. Material is T304.


Welding, O2 sensor, and cat flange detail.



The flange has been welded externally and internally. Internal welds are neat and have been dressed where required.


The manifolds have been constructed so that the steps from overlapped sections face away from exhaust flow, which is ideal.


This next photo shows the worst part for me: the joint and resulting radius of the rearmost cylinders could be smoother.


Mating face tolderance was circa 1mm. This is within spec for the composite gaskets supplied by Top Speed, but is boderline for a multi-layter-steel (MLS) gasket used on the OEM manifolds.


Composite gaskets supplied:


I perfer the MLS gasket so I decided to have the manifolds linished to suitable tolerances i.e. within ~0.25mm.


Ferrari gaskets ordered from Eurospares.


I will report back regarding fitment once I have the car back from Graypaul.

Something else I want to mention is another enthusiast, Aldous Voice, who has an excellent blog: http://aldousvoice.com/ Aldous has been very helpful to date in answering various questions I've had about the car.

mwstewart

Original Poster:

7,608 posts

188 months

Thursday 4th September 2014
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The car is back from Graypaul and now sports a replacement section of the magensium convertible roof frame. The underlying cause was identified as a broken pin. The roof had an adjustment and alignment check as part of the work and was given a clean bill of health, which I'm really pleased about as the roof mechanism can and will cause issues if out of spec. It's something useful for the history file.

I'm not impressed with the customer service from Graypaul however; I had to call them for updates and when I did it felt like I was causing them trouble. In comparison I have the Golf booked in on Friday for a £99 service and I've already had a courtesy call to confirm and remind me! I will look elsewhere next time even if it means a long trip.

mwstewart

Original Poster:

7,608 posts

188 months

Saturday 6th September 2014
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I'm in the process of replacing the OEM exhaust manifolds with the stainless tubular versions covered in my previous post, and whilst doing so I'm cleaning behind the various guards and trim pieces and replacing any corroded fasteners with stainless versions. It seemed like a good opportunity for a quick photo study of the parts that aren't usually seen.

O/S/R wheel arch with liners removed and stock manifold visible through the aperture. Suspension is coil over with double wishbone and a tie rod, which is adjustable for toe. Camber adjustment is made by shimming the wishbone mounts.


Close up of stock manifolds.


There are two aluminium fuel tanks; one in front of each rear wheel. I suspect they are baffled.



I found this signature at the top of the O/S/R arch - possibly a worker at Alcoa where the chassis is made.


Hydraulic manifold for the Spider roof mechanism is visible at the rear of the O/S/R wheel arch.


The air inlets atop the rear quarters feed air along in to the airbox. This photo shows the ducting linking the two.


Rear diffuser removed revealing transaxle.


Airbox lids and engine bay access panels removed.


Flat under tray removed showing the rear of the Alcoa chassis. It's a mixture of box section, pressed, and extruded sections welded together.


Front of the engine showing how the services run around the periphery of the engine bay and converge in a neat run to the front of the car.


The engine is dry sumped, and the sump is structural. The main cap studs are through-bolted here to increase stiffness of the bottom end.


Here are the stock manifolds removed. The job took around five hours and can only be described as a pain! My car had replacement Mk2 manifolds fitted by Ferrari in 2009 and the nuts must have been tightened by a Gorilla; given there is access to turn some of the nuts 1/8th of a turn at best, one more than one occasion I seriously thought I may end up stuck.

mwstewart

Original Poster:

7,608 posts

188 months

Sunday 7th September 2014
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Rocksteadyeddie said:
Love this thread. Really interesting to get your qualified insight into how a Ferrari is put together.
H100S said:
Bookmarked another one of your threads! Great work, now you have stripped the car further has your opinion changed on the build quality? How do you feel it is wearing its 8 years and 27k
Thanks both. The mechanical parts are the best on the car and are generally arranged and manufactured to a good standard, but there are issues. Suspension components are heavily performance based and carry some compromises associated with that; all of the joints are plated steel spherical joints which are susceptible to water ingress and corrsion hence become a service item at quite short intervals. The ball joints on my car were replaced by Ferrari dueing a mileage based service in 2010 at a cost of £4.5k and the car has covered 8k since then but I estimate is only a year away from requiring the same again.

The rear top mounts (called 'Silent Blocks') have been replaced already along with one of the rear tie rod ball joints. The other side tiw rod joint is showing play so I shall replace both sides with stainless versions manufactuerd by Hill Engineering. http://www.hillengineering.co.uk/catalog/194794-p-...

I've already covered the exhaust manifold issue and aside from that the engine is essentially service and forget. In general the underbody and engine bay finishing is not on par with a modern German car and hence it's not a car that would fair well if kept outdoors or in a damp garage.

In summary the mechanical parts and layout are significantly more impressive than the trim, which I suppose is the essence of the car.

mwstewart

Original Poster:

7,608 posts

188 months

Monday 8th September 2014
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H100S said:
Great reply. I appreciate your feed back and honesty, car parts is my trade however i deal with volume not Prestige.
You're welcome. If you want to have a look at some of the parts then the workshop manual http://www.ferraridatabase.com/The_Downloads/The%2... is superb, and even contains technical drawings for various components.

mwstewart

Original Poster:

7,608 posts

188 months

Monday 8th September 2014
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mwstewart said:
Hydraulic manifold for the Spider roof mechanism is visible at the rear of the O/S/R wheel arch.
Minor correction to the above: the manifold is in actual fact for the E-Diff, not the roof.

I now have the replica Scuderia Shields fitted to the front wings. I used the Ferrari measurements to position them.


Mk2 exhaust manifold failiure
I mentioned previously that my exhaust manifolds were the Mk2 version fitted by Ferrari in 2009 after the original Mk1 versions failed. I had a blow from my exhaust which prompted me to buy the stainless versions as soon as possible, and given that the stock manifolds were scrap I took an angle grinder to them in order to remove the heat shields and confirm a definite failiure.

Here are both of the manifolds with the shields and heat insulating material removed.


The right bank manifold was OK.



Strengthening gussets added by Ferrari.


Here's the left bank manifold. There is a 50mm crack right around the primary of cylinder eight.


mwstewart

Original Poster:

7,608 posts

188 months

Thursday 11th September 2014
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Rear Tie Rods
The Hill Engineering rear tie rod ends arrived. They are stainless steel ball joints encased within a billet aluminium end. The original Ferrari ends are plated ball joints in a forged alloy end. Ferrari fitted the arms in 2011 as a complete assembly and they hadn't used any anti-sieze compond which I always find vital when dealing with alloy threads. I had to cut off one of the original ends as it wouldn't budge even with heat applied. I've also bought new bolts to secure the end plates.


Assembly fitted.


I removed the A/C compressor to gain better access to the N/S exhaust nuts, and one of the three securing bolts snapped off in the block. Thank God it was the lower bolt (see arrow) which is easy to access otherwise it could have been a huge amount of work to rectify! It turns out that Ferrari use a grade 12.9 bolt for one of the three, with the others being 8.8! Combine that grade of bolt with an alloy thread in a hot engine block without any anti-sieze and you have a potential recipie for disaster. I decided to Helicoil the mount to make it better than original. I also replaced the bolts with new ones this time all in grade 12.9.


Manifolds fitted
Manifolds coated, and new studs from Ferrari. They are only 71p each so it makes sense to replace them. The nuts were from VW as it happenend; most manufacturers now use M8 exhaust studs with the smaller 12mm hex head.


It took me twenty minutes to fit the new manifolds which is in stark contrast to the four hours it took to remove the stock manifolds! The replacements fit well - a little tight around the studs compared to OEM, but that's no bad thing - so at this point they are looking to be a complete bargain. Let's see how they hold up to regular use.



Hill Engineering Foot Rest
I ordered this at the same time as the ball joints. The standard Ferrari foot rest is just a black rubber peice stuck onto an aluminium back plate. The Hill piece matches the rest of the pedals.


Standard rest:


Hill Engineering were brilliant to deal with and the service was great, and fast. The products are excellent quality so I certainly recommend them.