Anyone interested in a Land Rover build thread?

Anyone interested in a Land Rover build thread?

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300bhp/ton

Original Poster:

41,030 posts

191 months

Thursday 14th April 2016
quotequote all
Don't know if PH folk have any interest in this sort of thing. Anyhow this has been the main project taking most of my time since May last year.


Starting with this:


And being used for this:


And looking like this at one stage:



To back together, rebuilt and fully running again with lots of upgrades. biggrin



Can post more details and info if people are interested.

300bhp/ton

Original Poster:

41,030 posts

191 months

Thursday 14th April 2016
quotequote all
tonyb1968 said:
I do love a good Series III build thread, is this a 2.25 petrol 4 cyl or a nice V8 build? wink
I'll sort out some more pics then. Oh and neither... it started as a 2.25p however. smile

300bhp/ton

Original Poster:

41,030 posts

191 months

Thursday 14th April 2016
quotequote all
At heart I'm an off roader. Don't get me wrong, I love my sports cars, muscle cars, performance cars and RWD. And currently own what some may consider as obscene 3 V8 powered cars, an AWD Impreza and a turbo charged sports car.

But truth be told, if I could only have one car, it'd be a 4x4.

I'm a big Jeep fan, I love American trucks, but Land Rover's are where the heart is.

Some of you may remember I had a fairly standard 2.25 Series III 88. I've owned it for a good number of years now. And I've known the vehicle a lot longer, knowing 2 of it's previous owners.

Only real changes where some unknown branded parabolic springs (sourced from Paddocks 12-14 years ago), with Procomp shocks.



Now, being an "off roader" and using the vehicle off road. My criteria for the vehicle is probably rather different to many PH'ers. Or even run of the mill SUV owners.

The vehicle gets used off road extensively, for recreation and also for competition. The latter mostly done with the ALRC through MSA sanctioned events, typically in the RTV format.


The 88 didn't go too badly. The rear flexed "ok", but the front didn't. And while it handled well it seemed to ride quite harshly and hard at the rear unless you had 2 or 3 people in the back.


Some "before" pics:







Rear end flex ok for a mostly stock leafer:


But front way too stiff:



Off road you really want good wheel travel, it stops you getting stuck as easily and makes for a much more stable vehicle on uneven terrain.







Sadly I did experience some running issues, traced to several bug bears. I replaced the ignition system twice over, sadly with 2 new defective coils!!!! Eventually opting for an electronic ignition kit (which I should have done from the off).

It also burnt a valve out, so I swapped on a 2nd hand head. But sadly this didn't stem it's oil drinking problem. A shame, as the 2.25 is quite a nice refined engine.

I also had issues with the carb and simply got sick of it being unreliable and not running right. I'm not sure what was up with it. It was fine one day and then not the next. We must have stripped it down a 100 times. But it just wouldn't run like it did and was far too variable.

As standard this era of Land Rover should have had a down draught on it. The originals are hard to come by, so the previous owner opted for a new carb. But most of the offerings are cheap Chinese knock-offs. I'm not sure what went wrong with it, but something wasn't right and it was far too variable in terms of reliability.


I opted to fit an SU setup intially, by way of a custom adapter pipe to mate to the inlet manifold and purchased a new old stock SU off ebay, listed for a Sherpa van.

The SU wouldn't seem to run with the mechanic fuel pump very well, even after getting a new pump and lots of people saying it should. An electric pump solved this.

With the SU on it was dependable, although I think the jetting wasn't quite right and it did run a bit rich. It also drank fuel. Has to one of the worst vehicles on fuel I've ever owned, and I've owned a V12 Jaguar in the past!!



All joking aside, I think it was average 14mpg, but sometimes less. Mostly off road and short journeys however. But with the pitifully small fuel tank on the Series, it meant you had to continuously poor fuel through it. 120 miles to a tank was about it.


The final decider that it needed some work, was while setting up an RTV trial, I bent the rear cross member recovering my brother after he got is Tdi Ninety stuck in a huge mud hole.

You can see it bent here:





I'd already replaced the front chassis legs. So it looked like the rear was next...



.... or at least that was the original plan rolleyes

300bhp/ton

Original Poster:

41,030 posts

191 months

Friday 15th April 2016
quotequote all



The first plan was to simply lop off the old rear cross-member and fit a new one:



Sounds easy. Until we found out the rear legs where rotten also. So we fabbed up some new legs, only to find out there wasn't really anything to attach them too.


So off came the body:



Which left a more manageable bit to work on:



With the engine out too, there was not a whole amount left too look at:


Edited by 300bhp/ton on Friday 15th April 11:37

300bhp/ton

Original Poster:

41,030 posts

191 months

Monday 18th April 2016
quotequote all
Chassis was refurbished and given a second lease of life.




To eventually end up looking like this:



Some more pics of the chassis prep and paint. Lots of grunt work here. Sand blasting like this is horrible, but it was cheap. Used POR15 paint for the chassis.

I did consider getting it galvanised, but the extra work and costs involved made it prohibitive.










300bhp/ton

Original Poster:

41,030 posts

191 months

Monday 18th April 2016
quotequote all
To address some of the suspension issues with the standard Series setup. I opted for a nice long 2 leaf parabolic at the rear. This is a Rocky Mountain Spares spring, which I believe follows the Heystee design very well. I specifically wanted a 2 leaf rear, as it previously had a 3 leaf, which was way too firm in my opinion.

And 2 leaf springs seem somewhat hard to come by.






For the front I conceived an idea based on one or two other builds I've seen. Although none that have done exactly this.

What I did was fit a long rear spring to the front, and modded the mounting points to suit. So it is still an 88" wheelbase.


For cost reasons I opted to use the old 3 leaf spring from the rear. Although time will tell if this is too stiff, if so I'll get some more Rocky Mountain Spares 2 leaf ones. Although my rational was, the rear used to flex "ok" and the front has the weight of the engine to cater for.








And eventually back to a rolling chassis....





Next was to fit the new shocks I'd selected.


Initially I was going to opt for some Bilstein 5125 shocks, as I'd heard good things from two members on here. But they seemed just a little pricey and needed importing from America, which has time implications and more potential cost with VAT, delivery and import duty. And as I needed to account for every penny being spent, I gave David at Llama4x4 a shout to see what he could offer.

He sent me 4 of these:



For what I considered to be a very good price. As you can see, the new shocks, Rough Country N2.0's, are substantially longer than either the front or rear standard shocks. And also significantly longer than the Procomps that were on the vehicle (sorry no pic of those, but the Procomps where 1-2" longer than stock shocks). He also sent me a set of super long extended stainless brake lines.

300bhp/ton

Original Poster:

41,030 posts

191 months

Tuesday 19th April 2016
quotequote all
Fitting the shocks.

First major hurdle was the bushes supplied fitted in the shocks were too small.



Being US shocks they came with 5/8th or something bushes. A quick call to David at Llama and he said there should have been some 3/4 bushes in with them. He sent a set out to me. Top service and no complaints.



Next came to fitting the shock. My aim here was to retain the full up travel, i.e. have enough upstroke for the axle to still hit the standard bump stop, but while increasing the amount of down travel. Most aftermarket kits for a Series gain droop using a longer shock, but reduce the up travel. I considered several options such as moving the shocks in board, a bit like some guys do in the USA or Gon2Far did. However if you are doing this on a 109 there is loads of room, but less so on an 88 and I wanted to avoid having to custom cut an exhaust around them.

In the end we decided to go for shock towers. A side advantage of this, is it keeps the shock upright, which makes the shock the most affective.

Rear shocks test fitted:



NOTE: the shocks are upside down. I spoke directly with Rough Country using their live chat. So easy and took about 2 mins in total to get hold of them, ask a question and get the answer. These shocks should have the main body at the bottom.



A similar shock tower design was devised for the front.








All four shocks now fitted (and the correct way up). You can also see the super long brake line too.

300bhp/ton

Original Poster:

41,030 posts

191 months

Tuesday 19th April 2016
quotequote all
This is what we were left with once the old foot wells had been removed.




Now we had a rolling chassis and the shocks and springs fitted, we re-fitted the body, and hoping it all lined up. Which is mostly did, well nothing a drill and a hammer couldn't solve at any rate.













Next was setting to work on the footwells, a fair bit of work, but well worth it, and so much easier to do without the engine in the way.













300bhp/ton

Original Poster:

41,030 posts

191 months

Wednesday 20th April 2016
quotequote all
To the body we fitted complete new footwells and posts to the bulkhead.







You can also see one of the front shock towers, although we adapter this design later on.



I must apologise here, as I have lots more pics of the inter-meaning steps and progress, but they need uploading. So I'll have to upload them at a later date.


Here are some pics of citing the Defender steering column however:










The next job was to fab up the power steering.

Part of me didn't want to with PAS, it sort of goes against Series tradition. But my hands aren't what they used to be, and anyone who has done any serious off roading in a Series will know how viscous the steering wheel can be. In addition the standard steering had gone from good, to worse, to terrible to dangerous. I hadn't managed to trace where the slop was, but it had gone from being really nice, to wondering all over the road and gone very heavy. Pricing up to sort the Series setup out was no cheaper (maybe more expensive) than going the PAS route.

I opted for a Defender column, I believe this one came from a Td5. And p38a box. All curtsey of ebay. I forget how much, but think all the bits set me back £100 or less.


First mock up:






You may have noticed that the shock tower has changed slightly. Of course being upright they were in the way for the steering. A simple solution was to cut and cant them over slightly.

And bolted in place.














The Series steering wheel no longer fit, which I think was 48 spline. I had a nice aftermarket wheel. Luckily I had an old 200Tdi steering wheel from my 3 door Disco, that fitted right on. It's arguably the wrong colour and a little big, but it fits and works for now.



300bhp/ton

Original Poster:

41,030 posts

191 months

Thursday 21st April 2016
quotequote all
Deciding on what to do with the engine took some time. Part of me wanted to stick with the 2.25, but mine had oil consumption issues and I just hadn't got it running how I wanted.

I did look at rebuilding and modding it, or going 2.5P. And more exotic options like a T-Series from an Mpi Discovery. But ultimately I really fancied just getting it running again, and as I already have three V8's in my life, a 3.9, a 4.6 and a 5.7, something that could reliably and regularly return mid 20's or more mpg sounded appealing.

I opted for a 200Tdi off ebay for 300 notes. As it should in theory be a basic bolt in replacement.


Using Steve Parkers kit to bolt up the Tdi to standard Series gearbox, much swearing and working by torch light and the power train was assembled ready to be put in the vehicle.

Big thanks to my brother who went out of his way to help on this one.






At last the engine was in.








Now anyone who tells you fitting a Tdi in a Series is a 5 min job and requires only bolting in, is well, a liar!!

Sure it bolts up. But even that required shaving a bit off one of the engine mounts in order to fit it to the block. The bigger hurdle is the fab work for the rad, cooling pipes and turbo setup.


After much debate I decided to use the Discovery rad that came with the engine. As per the guidance on Steve Parkers website, cutting down the original Discovery rad shroud to fit where the Series rad used to be. My original hope was to fit the entire rad and intercooler assembly as you would in a Defender, but the p38a steering pump really meant there wasn't enough room.

This left the question on what to do about the intercooler. I'm fully aware of the advantages one offers. But in order to get the vehicle running I opted to forgo an intercooler for now. I may in the future see about mounting one in front of the rad as per Steve Parkers guide, but to buy a modded intercooler from them is a bit pricey. Or I may try something else. But I want to run it for a bit first and see how it goes.





To aid plumbing of the turbo, we "clocked" it. Essentially rotated it, which requires the drilling of some holes. But you end up with the outlet point up, instead of straight into the wing.




I had to get a high pressure hose made up for the PAS pump to box. And to address the issue of the steering arm, I had a solid one cut down and re-tapped. It's essentially a lower steering arm (as they are longer). ALRC regs won't allowed welded steering parts, so this seemed the best option.


300bhp/ton

Original Poster:

41,030 posts

191 months

Monday 25th April 2016
quotequote all
So to date the final/current spec is:

88" wheel base Series III
Series gearbox
Series transfer box
Series axles
4.75:1 diffs
Defender Steering column & P38a steering box
200Tdi non intercooled


There are still a few things to do. The lower dash is currently out and needs patching up. And I need to make up a few panels to cover the PAS box and other gaps in the inner wings. As well as get and fit some mud shields in the wings.

I have an X-Brake hand brake to fit.

And I need to sort the recovery points out front and read.

Intake filter is only temporarily attached too at the moment.
















300bhp/ton

Original Poster:

41,030 posts

191 months

Wednesday 27th April 2016
quotequote all
Quite pleased with how it flexes, nothing too extreme, but goes well on and off road, and a vast improvement over a standard Series.

I could tweak a few more bits, I have some longer One Ton military spec spring shackles I could fit. Pretty sure these would allow even more travel, but might cause prop issues and will alter the pinion angle of the diffs.
















300bhp/ton

Original Poster:

41,030 posts

191 months

Wednesday 27th April 2016
quotequote all
Vid of it in action and some other Landy footage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gh5BaCvon0I

300bhp/ton

Original Poster:

41,030 posts

191 months

Wednesday 27th April 2016
quotequote all
Yeah it does pretty much mate up.

So new clutch plate to match the spine on the Series box.

And you also drill and tap some holes from the timing case to the block. On a Disco you have long bolts that go through from the bell housing. Without these the bottom half is mostly being supporting by the shaft and can cause crank oil seal issues.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Wednesday 27th April 19:02

300bhp/ton

Original Poster:

41,030 posts

191 months

Wednesday 27th April 2016
quotequote all
I've not competed yet in it. But it has been round a few trials sections. And I'm using it in two weekends time to setup an event.

Re: the exhaust. I think with some persuasion it'll tuck up a bit higher. Although it is following the standard routing of the exhaust. I think the silver exhaust on the black chassis and the fact I've got the side sill panels removed make it stand out more than maybe it actually is.

That said, the short wheel base has meant it's not yet caused an issue on anything I've driven it on. Although time will tell if it will be an issue.

300bhp/ton

Original Poster:

41,030 posts

191 months

Monday 9th May 2016
quotequote all
Finally got chance to really test the suspension this weekend. Spent most of Saturday setting up an RTV event for Chiltern Vale Land Rover Club, at the Brickhill site.

This gave great opportunity to test it out thoroughly. And not just the suspension.

The Tdi performed flawlessly as did the p38a power steering.


The vehicle now feels extremely capable and didn't really suffer from traction at all during the setup.


It's still not an 'extreme' setup and I believe just some longer shackles would likely improve the suspensions articulation even more, although run the risk of prop binding and pinion angle issues.

But I think anyone with a stock leafer, or even a coil 90 would have to agree, it flexes pretty good for what it is.





















And although a few people have commented on the exhaust looking like it hangs low, I can attest and say it didn't get hung up on anything all day either. So quite pleased with this.


300bhp/ton

Original Poster:

41,030 posts

191 months

Thursday 14th July 2016
quotequote all
At last got round to fitting my X-Brake about 10 days back.

Fairly straight forward, although took many hours as there is quite a bit to do. The instructions were a little vague at times and the kit was missing 2 bolts. But all fitted and working. And I can report it's effectiveness. And highly recommend.


I also temporarily swapped my 7.50 16 Diamonds for some very rare 8.25 16 XZL's. An 8.25 is a mid way size between the more common 7.50 and 9.00. They are just over 33" tall and compared to a 7.50 XZL are a good 2" or so taller.

Also have been working on repairing the dashboard. Some in progress pics, it's now painted and back in the vehicle.




Parked up next to my Uncles new this year Puma.




CB radio also fitted (Thunderpole T-1000). And took the 88 to a local classic car show (Classics in the Walled Garden at Luton Hoo, for those that know the area). It seemed to a get positive responsive for the most part, despite being rather less shiny than the majority of the 500+ cars that attend the show.




300bhp/ton

Original Poster:

41,030 posts

191 months

Thursday 14th July 2016
quotequote all
Last weekend spent 4 days green laning in Wales. Did 440 miles in 4 days.

The Series went very well. Very impressed with the fuel consumption, best I've ever had from a Tdi, so much so I didn't believe it at first and had to work the figures out 3 times before I would accept it.

36mpg on the way there. And 30mpg combined for the entire trip.


There were 5 us in the group, a 1953 V8 Series 1, two Tdi Ninety's and a Tdi Defender 90.




Did a mix of lanes (sorry not many pics of mine). Including the famed Strata Florida.









The 8.25 tyres helped a bit on the road, but cruising speed really is limited to 50-52mph. Anymore and the revs are just too high for continual driving.

Over drives do seem appealing, but at £1500 are not on the cards at the moment. Think I'll try a pair of 3.54:1 diffs first and see how I get on.

300bhp/ton

Original Poster:

41,030 posts

191 months

Friday 15th July 2016
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
Try an Ashcroft transfer box first.
Definitely on my Xmas list...
http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/the-series...
Yeah, this is what I wanted to do originally, but they didn't have any all of last year. And they only got them in stock a week or so after I put the gearbox and engine back in the vehicle.

Changing diffs is easy and cheap and won't disable the vehicle. Changing over the transfer box is a fairly big job and a lot more costly, so probably isn't on the cards for these reasons now. But I agree, all things being equal, it would have been my preferred option.

300bhp/ton

Original Poster:

41,030 posts

191 months

Friday 15th July 2016
quotequote all
smn159 said:
Or an R380 gearbox conversion. Amazing that overdrives are now that much - mine cost me £250 just a couple of years ago eek
Don't really fancy the R380, want to keep it "Series" feeling to drive, if you know what I mean. Also fitting one is a lot of work and compromises other areas.

Re, overdrives. I think the Fairly ones can be had from £250-400 used. But might not be in working order. Sorted ones more like £500-800. These aren't made anymore and I think some parts are difficult to find.

The Roamerdrive is a different design and a better one. And they retail for about £1500 in the UK. But are often difficult to find in stock.

http://rockymountainspares.co.uk/product/overdrive...