Porsche 997 AWD V8 Turbo
Discussion
Hi, My name is Angus (Goose) originally none on PH name Argoose but for a long time was very ill but like all petrolheads I am back and wanted to say hello with this.
I am not a business I am a private developer that enjoys building cars. This is not my first LS Conversion I have modified a number of cars using the LS1/LS3 power plant. My first project car was a TVR Griffith, which was done over seven years ago by a developer in stoke.
But have always wanted to do a Porsche over two years ago I started investigating the 997. Why, well it’s no secret that Porsche have had lots of problems with their engines. I was shock at the cost and the more research I did the more I wanted to do this project. As we are aware from discussions with the US this is the first 997 to have a LS conversion.
Project Car
Purchased 997 C4 2006 from Porsche specialist with a problem engine. Sold the engine to nice chaps at Hartech so nothing is wasted. We have used the existing gearbox with an adapter plate and the existing AWD system. We have continued to use all the existing instruments and Porsche engine management systems but have removed all the Porsche ancillaries. We lost so much weight from the removal of the Porsche engine and ancillaries that we had to fit smaller springs at the rear so that the car sat as before.
A standard LS3 with a good road/race cam can give around 520BHP with great torque and good economy. In addition to this we have added a turbo and we are looking for around 600bhp. Craig at Dyno Torque has carried out all the development work with testing and tuning at Emerald.[url]
|https://thumbsnap.com/AndZNjLD[/url]
I am not a business I am a private developer that enjoys building cars. This is not my first LS Conversion I have modified a number of cars using the LS1/LS3 power plant. My first project car was a TVR Griffith, which was done over seven years ago by a developer in stoke.
But have always wanted to do a Porsche over two years ago I started investigating the 997. Why, well it’s no secret that Porsche have had lots of problems with their engines. I was shock at the cost and the more research I did the more I wanted to do this project. As we are aware from discussions with the US this is the first 997 to have a LS conversion.
Project Car
Purchased 997 C4 2006 from Porsche specialist with a problem engine. Sold the engine to nice chaps at Hartech so nothing is wasted. We have used the existing gearbox with an adapter plate and the existing AWD system. We have continued to use all the existing instruments and Porsche engine management systems but have removed all the Porsche ancillaries. We lost so much weight from the removal of the Porsche engine and ancillaries that we had to fit smaller springs at the rear so that the car sat as before.
A standard LS3 with a good road/race cam can give around 520BHP with great torque and good economy. In addition to this we have added a turbo and we are looking for around 600bhp. Craig at Dyno Torque has carried out all the development work with testing and tuning at Emerald.[url]
|https://thumbsnap.com/AndZNjLD[/url]Edited by DT8R on Thursday 18th May 10:22
J4CKO said:
I think this is one of those things that people have a perception of how it will be, i.e it will mess with the handling and is in someway wrong but based on what I have read it seems to be a good upgrade, even before adding turbos.
After all, its not like there is a shortage of 911's with engine problems, is the cost of swapping for an NA engine comparable to getting the original engine rebuilt ?
Thanks so much for highlighting this it is a conversion that is controversial but the developer has done a fantastic job and I have been delighted with the cars performance it's amazing. People have a real perception of what right or wrong and get genuinely upset that someone would do this to a 997 and that will not change. Its the cost that makes this project really makes sense. When you start looking at basic engine rebuilds or replacement doing it right isn't cheap. I spent over a month using the donor car and getting quotes to just repair the existing engine and this doesn't even take into consideration the massive performance gains. After all, its not like there is a shortage of 911's with engine problems, is the cost of swapping for an NA engine comparable to getting the original engine rebuilt ?
If you then add performance gains then cost for a Porsche based solution can be very expensive but that's what people will pay. The Porsche LS conversion is not expensive if you want just to have your broken engine replaced with a brand new engine and ancillaries. This conversion make a lot of sense and will continue to make sense long after the Porsche engine is scrapped. Servicing any LS power plant is not expensive and is very easy on the 996/997 conversion.
Then we you consider the basic performance gains then here is some basic s comparisons. The current 997 GT3 RS is Curb weight 1360 kg (2998 lbs) and has a performance of 493 bhp / 368 kw @ 8250 rpm with rear wheel drive. The 997 Turbo S Curb weight 1585 kg (3494 lbs) and is AWD with 523 bhp / 390 kw @ 6750 rpm. We have developed a 997 LS3 V8 Turbo Curb weight 1396 kg (3077 lbs) and AWD with over 600 bhp/447kw.
Cost of LS performance is really cheap in comparison.
Edited by DT8R on Wednesday 10th May 02:18
HybridAero: We have focused on performance on this car but anyone building an LS 996/997 can expect better fuel consumption than the 3.6 or 3.8 I have had LS getting 30mpg. However this car is running bigger fuel pump and injectors so fuel consumption will not be great but we will try to get improvements were possible.
Mike335i: It’s a manual
Veeayt: We had originally considered a C2 but because this was going to be an all round day to day car I decided to play with AWD. Will be interesting to see how it develops. To date it’s been awesome but currently having its final tune up to full power 600bhp and so things will get interesting.
Thanks for you feedback and hope I can help with any more questions. The plan is to have it as a daily car and over time develop the car and share its evolution. But out the box its very good and soon to be back from Emerald now running at full power 600bhp.
One this I can't share yet is the sound track and that is mental its the first car since owning TVR's that stops people in the streets and puts a smile on peoples faces.
Mike335i: It’s a manual
Veeayt: We had originally considered a C2 but because this was going to be an all round day to day car I decided to play with AWD. Will be interesting to see how it develops. To date it’s been awesome but currently having its final tune up to full power 600bhp and so things will get interesting.
Thanks for you feedback and hope I can help with any more questions. The plan is to have it as a daily car and over time develop the car and share its evolution. But out the box its very good and soon to be back from Emerald now running at full power 600bhp.
One this I can't share yet is the sound track and that is mental its the first car since owning TVR's that stops people in the streets and puts a smile on peoples faces.
Edited by DT8R on Wednesday 10th May 11:17
Chris Stott said:
So say the engine in my 996.1 C2 goes pop, and I'm faced with a potential £10-12k bill for a Hartech rebuild... broadly, how much would it cost to stick a non-turbo V8 in it?
Well if we looked at a brand new crated LS3 and ancillaries around 14kThats engine will have 480BHP standard which is a lot more than the 997 GT3 came with and you will have also removed a lot of weight from the car as the LS is significantly lighter in weight.
Edited by DT8R on Wednesday 10th May 13:19
lewisf182 said:
It's an interesting proposition in that scenario then. How would a 997'd LS3 conversion be priced in the market? A hartech rebuild bolsters values (nowhere near the rebuild price though) so wonder how it would work for a 'better' overall engine - more power and better economy. It's an interesting question but don't wanto hijack this epic thread!
Well if we looked at a brand new crated LS3 and ancillaries around 14kThats engine will have 480BHP standard which is a lot more than the 997 GT3 came with and you will have also removed a lot of weight from the car as the LS is significantly lighter in weight.
likesachange said:
Good point.. What warranty does the hartech rebuild offer? and does a new crate engine offer a warranty (id imagine so?) ...
Until a company decides to offer this as a proper upgrade and starts to get recognised as a "good" upgrade then I guess the value will be not close to a 911 with the hartech rebuild even with the much improved performance gains.
Interesting point I have also been investigating getting a warranty company to support this and until I have a finished car that still not something thats an option. But will keep on working at thisUntil a company decides to offer this as a proper upgrade and starts to get recognised as a "good" upgrade then I guess the value will be not close to a 911 with the hartech rebuild even with the much improved performance gains.
matrignano said:
How's the balance, handling and traction affected by the engine swap?
Having a lighter but taller engine sitting on top of the rear wheels would throw the balance forward and
upwards I guess, which means poorer traction but potentially more "benign" handling (less pendulum effect)?
All I can say in response is we have not experience any off this. The car is very well balanced and they have been track testing LS3 in 996 in the US with great results, We have plans to do much more testing and some track but to date we have had great results. Remember the LS is a lot lighter than the Porsche 3.6 3.8 and isn't top heavy. Having a lighter but taller engine sitting on top of the rear wheels would throw the balance forward and
upwards I guess, which means poorer traction but potentially more "benign" handling (less pendulum effect)?
chuntington101 said:
Cracking car! Seen a few LS conversions in the states. Seems like a great mix.
Anymore details on the turbo? Also what are you using for intake cooling? Guessing a chargecooler mounted somewhere? Anymore pics?
The engine delivers over 500 bhp so the turbo is only going to be running about 5 psi and the intercooler is sat behind the rear wheels in the arch. will post more pictures shortly.Anymore details on the turbo? Also what are you using for intake cooling? Guessing a chargecooler mounted somewhere? Anymore pics?
Nanook said:
Very cool.
My first thought though, was does the engine spin the right way?
Porsche use the 3.6 engine in MR applications as well, where it's in front of the gearbox, so is the direction of rotation something that's dealt with by the diff?
I was told it wasn't an issue but being honest when I started the researching this over two years ago I did wonder. Strange but true Porsche in the USA have been getting V8 custom conversions for over 10 years. My first thought though, was does the engine spin the right way?
Porsche use the 3.6 engine in MR applications as well, where it's in front of the gearbox, so is the direction of rotation something that's dealt with by the diff?
Dr G said:
What a great project!
How 'OE' is it in terms of electronics and ancillaries? Aircon retained? ABS/Stability? ECU/s?
We have retained everything ABS,Stability and ECU all managed through Cambus. When we first got the car before doing anything we rain it up to Emerald so they could understand how everything worked very similar to VW. We have for the moment switch Stability off but that may change in time.How 'OE' is it in terms of electronics and ancillaries? Aircon retained? ABS/Stability? ECU/s?
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