Blasphemy or beauty?

[AdamTDSC]

I decided to give PH a go after pretty much giving up on forums..

So I was curious on what people think about my choice of Engine for the 1977 BMW 02 I am restoring.
For reference of how I came to this decision, I bought the 02 three years ago with intentions of doing a turbo arched resto mod with a bit of extra power. The car was dragged from a miserable, damp, rat infested garage in South London and although I could have found a nicer starting point the thing spoke to me and it was meant to be!
Day one

Once it arrived at my home I began to rip it apart finding chewed wires, rust and rat faeces! Oh and a handful of vintage coins under the dash!

My original plan of hopping up the legendary M10 went out of the window as I slowly got carried away with the idea of power so it had to be pulled.


Being excited to get the thing moving I started to buy parts. Custom GAZ coilovers, full cage, brakes, fuel system and the second Engine and a rather large turbo.
M42b18 (E30 318is) with MS2 management, custom made a plenum and exhaust manifold. Thennn...

I owned a turbo car and didn’t really like it which threw the whole idea out of the window. So I went ahead with a car I’d always wanted the E46 M3. I fell in love with the S54 and this got me thinking I really need the 02 to be NA. Technically it wouldn’t have been all that wrong to turbo the 2002 is a significant milestone in the history of turbo cars.

Anyway I digress, in my head I had a handful of options... S14B20/23 (E30 M3) S54, S65, LS
After back and forth a bunch of times it had to be 4 banger. Weight distribution was an important factor and I wasn’t willing to compromise the driving position to achieve that with the heavier engines.
S14 seemed like the logical option being an evolution of the M10. But as fast as E30 M3 values appreciate so do the parts. The right Engine and box would be nothing short of 15k..

So what could I do that’s a reasonable price, NA, high revving and readily available? Honda!

Weighing up the options of F20c (s2000) and the extra hassle of K20 (CTR). A few friends convinced me that the K was worth the extra effort and I picked one up!

Jenvey ITBs and cams should make all the right noises!


And far from the turbo arches originally planned I drove to the ring to collect a different choice of kit. Things escalated...


So I ask the Internet, am I wrong?

[AdamTDSC]

Thanks everyone!

I didn’t post it in readers rides as it was more just a post to see what people thought of the K20 swap. I may do a build thread as things go on.

The reason for the kit was with my love of Gruppe 2/5 racing of the period it’s my favourite period of motorsport history! Plus it was a rust bucket...

[AdamTDSC]

Butter Face said:

The only problem I see is that the K20 seems to be missing a supercharger

I did consider that but I couldn’t deny it of glorious intake sound

[AdamTDSC]

Thanks for the postive responses and suggestions!

I did consider the M52 as I had one in the e30 as it’s lighter than the other 6 cup options. But it was crossed off the list as I decided it had to be 4 cylinder for weight distribution and concerns of Engine bay space and cooling etc...
There is no denying BMW have created some of the best engines of all times but each one I selected seemed to have some sort of hurdle or compromise. As far as the K20 goes the only real compromise is the fact it’s not BMW.

This would be my ultimate option but I don’t have £40k just for an engine

As for the colour that was another thing that was back and forth 100 times I love the golf yellow but the idea of a full period livery is winning at the moment!

And as for you Scott we will get there one day...

Oh and the Herman Vtec sticker is going to happen! Great idea

Edited by AdamTDSC on Thursday 5th July 10:18

[AdamTDSC]

Vitorio said:

TekoTime said:

wolfracesonic said:

Are you going to put a 'Yo! Vtec just kicked in' sticker on it when it's done?

Shirley, it should be "VTEC jüst kickenfahrt in, jo!"

"Freude am VTEC"?

How about

Honda
Die Macht der Träume

[AdamTDSC]

Mark Benson said:

Lots of Honda powered Escort Mk2s rallying round Ireland - don't see this as being any different.

A nice update to an otherwise neglected car -

Thanks I had noticed this and it’s also a common choice for lots of track car platforms.

I think really it’s difficult to deny it just ticks all the boxes barring the purity one!

[AdamTDSC]

avenger286 said:

AdamTDSC said:

Mark Benson said:

Lots of Honda powered Escort Mk2s rallying round Ireland - don't see this as being any different.

A nice update to an otherwise neglected car -

Thanks I had noticed this and it’s also a common choice for lots of track car platforms.

I think really it’s difficult to deny it just ticks all the boxes barring the purity one!

I built an Hillman Avenger with a ZETEC in it on bike carbs and a type 9 box. Got some stty comments from the asoc about it. At the end of the day it still looks like an old car and sounds like an old car with carbs on it just goes a lot quicker! I like braking the norm

Well it sounds really cool to me for the exact reasons you already stated!

[AdamTDSC]

V8mate said:

Assume you're keeping the RWD format? Which gearbox will you use?

Yes I’m using a Mazda RX8 gearbox as it is a nice box and slim design may not require cutting the tunnel!

[AdamTDSC]

MX6 said:

Very cool project. I certainly approve of the modifications, I can appreciate an all standard classic as something to see at a show or in a museum, but don't have any desire to own one myself, wouldn't be able to resist the urge to fiddle with it!

There's something that is appealing to me about going with the brand of engine that matches the chassis, but on a purely technical level a Honda motor seems to make decent sence.

I can appreciate a concourse restoration too but for a car to actually use it’s certainly not the route I’d like to go!

It did take me a while to over come the engine not being BMW mentally but all the other boxes being ticked made me realise really it doesn’t matter all that matters is how it drives, sounds and feels! And with the Jenveys it will still have that raw induction sound that old cars are famous for!

[AdamTDSC]

Very nice! I wish I could justify the extra 10 grand to have that engine!

[AdamTDSC]

MrBig said:

TekoTime said:

Shirley, it should be "VTEC jüst kickenfahrt in, jo!"

Please this get made into a sticker for the rear window!

I wholeheartedly endorse your choice on engine, cant wait to see it completed. Out of interest though, why the K20 over the F20? I thought the latter made about 50 more horsepower?

Oh it’s going to happen trust me!

I read and read about it as I was skeptical when people told me the K20 was a better Engine. What really sold it to me was the fact people were swapping them into s2000s. There were a number of reasons why it was technically a better choice despite the less power but the main one was the vast array of parts available and the tunability with the revised VTEC. They seem to be capable of making mid range a lot better

[AdamTDSC]

I guess this may turn into a build thread although it wasn’t my original intentions!

The metalwork side of it I have too many photos to even begin really so il just list what has been done
New inner and outer sills
New front floors
New inner wing a posts
Rifle butt wing mounts
Vertical wing mounts
Headlight buckets
Rear lower panel and corners
Flat boot floor (next on the to do)

The cage is a work in progress but will be tied in to the b pillars and bulkhead then the rear struts braces and a few additional gussets

[AdamTDSC]

ZX10R NIN said:

Great work It'll look superb & that engine will be perfect for it my mate has one in his MK2 Escort it really suits (although I will add it's coming out to make way for a Millington engine) the nature of the car & the induction noise is crazy.

The millington is a great Engine too! Bet that will sound awesome

[AdamTDSC]

JakeT said:

I wasn't taking a dig at all, I absolutely don't blame you one bit for using a 4-cyl. As you say, the weight distribution is much better and a Honda engine is so free revving it will have no trouble shifting such a light car. If you ever feel a lack of torque you can always supercharge it too.

It wasn’t taken that way at all dude! Believe me I’ve thought everything over and over and over again and again for months before I made a final decision on it

[AdamTDSC]

Xaero said:

AdamTDSC said:

MrBig said:

TekoTime said:

Shirley, it should be "VTEC jüst kickenfahrt in, jo!"

Please this get made into a sticker for the rear window!

I wholeheartedly endorse your choice on engine, cant wait to see it completed. Out of interest though, why the K20 over the F20? I thought the latter made about 50 more horsepower?

Oh it’s going to happen trust me!

I read and read about it as I was skeptical when people told me the K20 was a better Engine. What really sold it to me was the fact people were swapping them into s2000s. There were a number of reasons why it was technically a better choice despite the less power but the main one was the vast array of parts available and the tunability with the revised VTEC. They seem to be capable of making mid range a lot better

I'm not overly familiar with the K20, do you have any articles you can post too about that? I was looking into swapping a f20c into something non-Honda so researched it a bit. As it starts with ~50bhp more mostly due to revving higher, how much more are you looking to get from the K20? Would it be through forced induction?

I’m not sure if linking other forums is okay but if you google K20 vs F20c there’s a few threads with some good info.
The extra power will be from exhaust and 45mm Jenvey ITBs and a cam. I’d be happy with anything over 250hp really as it’s gobna be pretty light

[AdamTDSC]

Tickle said:

Great build potential, good stuff!

Have a word with Dan at HPE Automotive. He specialises in Honda conversions in Elise's; however he has tuned many N/A ones with great results, and sound!

Thanks il keep him in mind if I get stuck!

[AdamTDSC]

seefarr said:

Great choice of engine and this:

crofty1984 said:

Also, if you change the colour I'm going to have you arrested.

I have something up my sleeve with regards to that part...

[AdamTDSC]

This should certainly help with that intake sound associated with the race cars of this period!
I also received a load of parts from K Tuned via tegiwa which has been a huge help!
Next job will be test fitting all the parts on the engine and mocking up the exhaust manifold

[AdamTDSC]

amc_adam said:

Brilliant, looking forward to this! It would be good to see more of the fabrication work you are putting in to it?.

It should be starting to get more interesting than just rust repair now so the cage and flat floor plus the gussets etc I will try to get photos

[AdamTDSC]

I haven’t been able to update this in a while!

After countless hours of research in creating a front end rack setup that works (pretty difficult with these cars) a post on a forum got me in touch with a guy in France who just happened to have an ex race car he was willing to sell the parts from!

Next step powdercoat



The beauty of this is the full adjustability