MG ZS 120+ - aka "The Learning Experience"

[Smitters]

I am now the proud owner of this awesome beast.



I've been having two trains of thought over the last few years, which have collided in a haze of imminent baby induced panic (MiniSmitters2 is due Monday at the latest - I have excellent timing and a massively tolerant OH).

The first is that there is a sweet spot of power and handling for entertaining everyday driving. I increasingly think that it needs a lot more compliant suspension and a lower bhp/tonne than perceived wisdom would suggest. Who here hasn't reminisced about the halcyon days of three wheeling a woefully underpowered car round a bend on it's ditch-finder shod 155 biscuit tins? Of being able to floor a throttle and recite quite a lot of Shakespeare/Vanilla Ice/??? (delete or insert as appropriate) before arriving at license losing territory?

I loved my 1.0 Fiesta van. I enjoyed the 1.1 Saxo that followed. I loved the Turbo 2000 Impreza that came after that, but that was also the first time I realised I had to be properly careful with my right foot. With great power came a tiny bit of responsibility.

The second is that I really enjoy working with my hands and in the right mood, love tinkering, improving and modifying cars. But that I have very limited skills. Thus, I find it quite stressful working on a car that has to be running again by Monday, or when there is a defined window to complete a job before we need to go to swimming lessons/shopping/buy yet another pair of child's shoes.

Have another pic - that's a lot of waffly text.



Hmmm. Hit submit instead of preview. Next post along in a minute. Am not a genius.

[Smitters]

Right, where was I. Oh yes. Being a tit and hitting the wrong button. Excellent.

My solution to these two train (crashes) of thought is the above. A car to just tinker with, which needs some(*) work doing to it. So in buying this I get the satisfaction of working on my own car, but without the pressure of having to get it running for work/a trackday/a show. I also get to learn to do lots of basic things on a well known, well understood car with a wealth of knowledge and a big fan base. Finally, I get to know that if I massively cock it up, it's far from the end of the world. Spares are cheap, eBay is a hive of second hand parts, knowledge and time are plentiful. And if it all goes well, I'll have a nice little fast-road/trackday car I can take out in the pouring rain and not care (much) about if it gets some gravel rash or a ding.

So, I have an MG ZS 120+, 124,000 miles, MOT to May '19, no history, some MOTs and a massive ding in one wheel. Talking of which, that there eBay just gave me these for the princely sum of £70. For four (probably) straight wheels. Once it gets to that stage, I'll try a home refurb and see how I go.





(*)OK, fk-loads. No really, the list is endless.

[Smitters]

Well, I picked the car up last night. To answer the inevitable question, is cost me 0.4 Sheds. I feel like this is quite a lot of car for not a lot of pounds and, as I will say repeatedly to my missus as she gets increasingly irate, it's impossible to put a price on the education I will receive from it. I'm 99% sure that line will work. Probably.

I went straight to the local petrol station to top up the comically low fuel level and to use my 12V pump to get the tyres to sensible and equal pressures. This is 0.4Shed motoring people. I don't have the funds to pay 50p for air! I thought I'd push my luck and park next to the local copper who was in for a snack and a coffee, but he didn't raise an eyebrow. Clearly, I'm past it!


Stickers add 100 cool points and 25bhp. Copper long gone by this point, presumably having got bored of watching a middle-aged bald man taking photos of a sheddy MG that's been crashed through Halfords.


I left the car idling while I did the tyres to see what the temp gauge did. I had paid it no attention on my test drive - the litany of car buying errors I made makes for painful/amusing reading. It is essentially a "how not to buy a car guide".

• It was the first one I saw.
• It has a smallish engine but a towbar.
• I still don't know if there are locking wheelnuts on the car, or if I have a release key.
• I forgot to open all the doors and windows, check the various electrics or if the sunroof works.
• There's a random aftermarket switch. 50% of me wanted to click it while driving along. 100% of me feared at a minimum, the car would die, or I would be somehow ejected from the seat a la James Bond.

Only two of the three lights go out when driving... oh.


Happily though, while idling nothing was spewed, ejected, dripped copiously or ran dry. I had an impromptu photo shoot, then I hopped in to drive home. As I drove, I considered which injection booster shots I would need and how many hours I may need to spend in the shower.


All of the grot.

My son was still awake when I got home. His lovely mam had allowed him to stay up so he could see the car, so I carried him down in his pjs. There was actual excited jumping up and down in the kitchen while I put some shoes on. He had a sit in the front and pronounced it "very fast".

Next steps are to get it on tarmac, put some cardboard under it to see if it leaks anything and when time allows, get it on stands to look at the rust. I've got as far as buying some new protective glasses, because stuff is definitely going to fall on my face with this one.

[Smitters]

Usget said:

I think they look great, but (your thought process around lower powered cars notwithstanding) I'd probably have gone for the KV6. Still, the 1.8 K series makes a nice noise even though it doesn't go anywhere very quickly.

It's a fair point, but I have another car with a 1.8K, so there are transferable skills here and essentially spare engine parts. Also, at my budget, most 180s were out, as were almost all the 160 ZRs with the 1.8 VVC. Plus every 180 I saw needed belts, which for my meagre skills, was probably asking a bit much. At least this has a straightforward arrangement!

To stretch the end-goal a bit, in future I would consider a home-port attempt and some hotter cams, plus the associated inlet and exhaust bits, but it'd have to be all cheap/secondhand and way down the line. I'd never take it to the point of needing a strong bottom end, but somewhere around 150 bhp and a bit more midrange torque ought to be doable. The five speed box is woefully long second to fourth, then undergeared in fifth, giving 3000+ at motorway speeds, so putting all the power up top is a fools errand anyway and this will never be "hot", only gently warm.

[Smitters]

Usget said:

Sounds like a plan, and who am I to argue with your lad!

I think he just likes the spoiler, but that in itself is a good thing. He's not managed to read the reviews of the 180 yet. I dug up a few from back in the day and they seem to go something like:

"I arrived at Brands Hatch for the launch of the ZS and wanted to hate it, but I just couldn't. The 180 was hands down an amazing surprise."

I think the decent chassis tuning MG did and the relatively light V6 did the car a lot of favours. I think it may have had a better set of ratios or even a six speed box, which would help enormously.

I wonder if one retrofits a 120...

[Smitters]

James76G said:

Nice project and I personally always favoured the pre-facelift ZS (as yours is) to thr facelifted version. I looked for a ZS 180 for a while but ended up in a ZR 160 instead, which turned out to be a far better car than the internet folk lore would have you believe.

Good luck with it.

Cheers. I looked at a few mk2 cars, but from the back they, and I'm being charitable here, are fk ugly.

I did fancy a 160, but as above, budget vs condition caused issues. Rusty rust based issues.

Talking of rust, I've been in three corners so far without real horrors. If I find any bad rot, it probably spells the end of this car for me as I have no metalwork skills, nor time and space to acquire them.

When not on my phone I'll add a bunch of photos showing what I've done so far, but due to imminent arrival of miniSmitters2, in about 16 hours, I'd better focus on other things for now...

[Smitters]

SloppyClock said:

Great purchase and good write-up, will be following this keenly.

I chose to do the same learning curve thing with an MG TF 115, which uses the 1.6 variant of the k-series. Always lusted after one of these however, but cannot convince the lady to go along with my vehicular based desires.

Top tip - don't just rely on the cardboard, coat the HG seal with talcum powder. Also do under and around the inlet manifold seal. These are the common leakage points, which I'm sure you know about already - the talcum powder just allows you to trace it much easier, and also helps with the cases where the coolant is a slow leaker or gets burnt off.

Would also suggest double checking the alternator belt, as if that snaps its been known to take the cam belt out with it.

Finally, if you ever need mechanical help, contact MG Rover Solutions. Mark is very, very well known in the MG/Rover/Lotus crowd as a mobile mechanic that does very good quality work at very reasonable prices. Downside is he gets quite booked up.

Ha - just replied to your Fiat thread then realised I'd be replying to you here too!

I do have some updates coming, so no spoilers, but in the mean time, thanks for the talc tips. Alternator belt is new and well tensioned thankfully. Cam and other belts will be renewed shortly when the head comes off.

Duly noted on MGRS. I'm hoping to do all spannering myself, but it's good to know of a recommended guru if I get stuck. I believe MGJohn and I reside in the same county too, so if I really screw up, I may end up putting out some sort of MG distress signal via powerful lamp shining on the clouds above...

At the mo though, newly arrived baby stops (or at least slows dramatically) play. That and several jobs on our camper and Beetle that are more urgent.

[Smitters]

Thank you all for the advice and congrats. I've subscribed to the Shedding with a Rover 45 too - so interesting and helpful to read and also see pics of the issue - I'll definitely take a look when time allows. Hopefully I'll get under it this weekend and also take some pics of the "handiwork" so far.

[Smitters]

mattyprice4004 said:

Welcome to ZS ownership! I've had about 10 so far, lovely cars.
There's a few reasons to pick a 1.8 over the KV6 - it's a lot more 'revvy', cheap to own and run, and handling is significantly better as the weight is more evenly balanced.

KV6 radiators aren't available new, cambelt changes are £500+ and inlet manifolds are over £1000 new too.
I'd much rather have a K4 1.8 these days - I've got a diesel at the moment, but the engine weighs the front end down quite heavily.

You're always welcome to pick my brains if needed - I own and run Discount MG Rover Spares and have a worryingly OCD level of inside-out knowledge of these motors and the K Series engine.

Thank you - you've had some of my cash already and I'm a big fan of the Maoam. I will give you a bell on the old HG front having digested the pages of your website and put my order in after payday. I've been reading a bit of DVA stuff on the oil ladder and the suitability for each gasket vs head issues and I'm undecided on the best course of action as yet.

[Smitters]

SloppyClock said:

I think the MG distress signal is a puff of white smoke coming out of the exhaust as another CHG pops

Congrats on the little'n though!

The white smoke doesn't get that far it seems... and cheers. He's ace. Mechanic in the making.


Just a little teaser as I have actually been doing things, but as I have a Samsung phone and only one of those weird cables, which is never where I want it to be, I can't load any pictures yet. So, pop quiz:

Was there,

a) coolant visibly leaking from the head/block interface when I ran the car up yesterday.
b) considerably more rust on the main chassis members creeping under the seam seal and under seal than I'd hoped.
c) a need to remove the front bumper just to unbolt the washer bottle.
d) a chunk of rust and paint knocked off a very visible spot on the front wing by a cack-handed and tired man who'd been lying on his back scraping his sheddy rust box and earnestly questioning his life choices at ten pm last night.
e) all of the above?

Sigh. I loves a project I does.

[Smitters]

So, where was I? Oh yes. Learning lessons…

My first quest was a search for rust. I’d decided up front if there was anything really bad, I’d just turn the car around and look for something else. I’m clearly not going to do a full OEM+ restoration here, but at the same time, I don’t mind spending a few pounds on some basic kit to slow down the inevitable march of the rot. Once I’ve completed that task, it’ll be on to replacing the HG and servicing the car for parts and fluids.

So, is there any rust? Er.





OK - the rear ARB looks scabby, and there's lots of surface rust, but actually, having pulled the interior out of the boot to check the strut tops, removed the sill bodykit to inspect the front of the sills and leading edges and jacked up the front for a meeting with a jetwasher and some degreaser, it's actually not that bad. So the plan stands - brush back any surface rust as best I can, especially in the wheel arches, leading edge of the floor pan and wherever it's obviously blowing the seam seal up and go from there. More work than I wanted, less rust than there could have been.

Wheel arches not too bad, though this is the better side.




Probably the worst found so far. This has been brushed back hard, but even so, there are no holes. I'm still not looking impressed though.



Getting some converter on.



Note the hamfisted jacking attempt on the floorpan by the two plugs on the right of the pic. It left a sizable dent and damage to the underseal resulting in, you guessed it, auto-lightening, colour swap to dark red mode "on". Idiots. My missus's Beetle has had this mod too.




Looking round the car produced some interesting discoveries too...

No idea what the Brands Hatch Edition is. Google has failed to enlighten me.



Living the LED life... also explains what the interesting switch is in the cabin. These are staying, obviously.



And finally, the obvious cause of the coolant loss and the reason the car came with free mineral water bottles - always a good sign. Not a great picture, and possibly highlights the amusement I'll have when removing the exhaust manifold, but there's a veritable cascade from outside cylinder 4. Like actual dripping while the engine runs. And no, before you ask, it's not coming from that coolant joint. It's dry above the head/block "seal". And there's scum in the coolant tank anyway.



So, the next few steps will be to finish brushing back and treating the front, for which I've got some Kurust, Hammerite and a bunch of Bilt Hamber products to do the seam and undersealing. Then I'll move onto the back and do the same, before putting in my orders for:

HG, head bolts, exhaust gasket, inlet gasket, cam cover gasket, new cam belt (and tool), new water pump, new tensioner, new alternator belt (new my arse - seller's telling porkies here), new aux belt, new plugs, air and oil filters (x2, one for a quick few hundred miles to flush the engine out a bit and cut open, one to pop back on with decent oil), some Holts rad-flush, new exhaust studs, new coolant tank cap (the old one hisses, which probably isn't ideal).

I'm undecided yet on whether to pull the head off then order the HG once I measure the liner protrusion and inspect for damage, or just assume it needs an elastomer gasket. I'm not going to spend £££ on hardness testing the head because I don't want to spend £££ and because I don't want to remove the cams and carrier and then have a big time gap - the likelihood of it going back together successfully after any time elapses is minimal. Having everything on hand to simply clean and rebuild on the same (engage optimism mode) day or (reality mode) same week is more likely to yield success, though it comes with a risk.



Other amusing experiments I've been dreaming up while pacing about with a wind-filled infant at midnight are:

DIY PRT to avoid the £100+ bill for a kit. I'll check pipe IDs and ODs while doing the head and then try to figure out which parts I need to do a Frankenstein's monster of a job.

DIY bushes. OK - only little ones, but it looks amusing and not too hard, for example, to make my own for the drop links instead of paying Powerflex £40. They are simply disks with a hole through and a metal tube.

Can I make my own 421 headers? OK - a long shot here, but a good excuse to learn to weld, and the exhaust run is pretty simple, so there's no reason I can't raid a scrappy for exhaust pipe parts off various cars, buy some flanges and gaskets and get making a mess. 2-1 joiners are common, so no need for complex cuts, just a clean up of the existing manifold and some lopping off of bits to make space for new bits. I may wait until the day after the MOT to do this...

[Smitters]

M1C said:

Im liking this. Fair play to you. I dont like the stickers, though......

I drove a fair few of these when they were new. I used to work at a Rover branch back in 2001 ish.

Even then, the 45 and ZS seemed 'ancient'.....BUT.....and this is a big BUT.....i still remember how good the ZS'ss's's were to drive. There was a like...consistency to all of the controls, the steering had weight and feel, the gearbox was lovely and snickety, the ride was firm but like....well, to me, 'sorted'.

The 1.8 120 engine (as i recall) was wierd...as it kinda...offered a bit of a splurge of torque. Or at least - some.

When compared to the 105ps 1.4 - which did absolutely nothing until you 'caned' it....the 1.8 had a totally different power delivery...but it did at least have some 'go' to it.

I remember thinking that, despite the ZR being (back then.....) maybe a bit 'cooler'? and perhaps better looking...? the ZS was definitely the more sorted one to drive.

Cheers. And I have good news...



I know what you mean about the car seeming quite "right". The torque seems to be accessible and given how utterly shagged my not quite mint 125k'er must be, it felt well sorted on the test drive. The ZR was a rear beam, whereas the ZS is independent suspension all round, which may make some difference to the feel.

My gearbox is not snickety. More stirring a long stick in a basket of wet washing. I suspect many, if not all original parts. An oil change for the gearbox is on the cards too, and once I'm satisfied that the car won't simply fall apart, I may treat it to some shifter linkage bushes and upgrades. It has quite a long throw which needs a bit of delicacy though. I've spent quite a while with a Caterham, where the shifter is direct to box, so the extra link points that introduce slop are quite a novelty.

[Smitters]

Just a little bump to say I've not simply lost interest and let the whole thing moulder on the drive through apathy. To be clear, the blue stter is mouldering on the drive, but through prudence rather than apathy.

As noted above, I was the lucky recipient of a second son just a week or so after buying the ZS. Therefore time and priorities were premium items. There may have been a conversation that included the phrase "...that fking car...", thus I thought it best to leave well alone and so I have.

Time has passed, nappies have been changed, life has, if not stabilised, then become less unstable, owing to the two tiny boys we have, bringing the number of boys in the house who are prone to tantrums if they don't get their way up to three... I'm learning patience and the art of not pissing off a new (and wonderful, I might add) mum.

Anyway, all that said, in a fit of keenness, I've ordered some of these:



I opted for them mainly because they're cheap. We'll see.

I have also finished the rust treatment of the front half. I'll chuck up some photos when, once again, I'm in the same place as the stupid Samsung cable. There was lots of surface rust, but nothing too damaging and deep, so I've brushed it all back, covered it in k-rust and am waiting for the time to strike for my delicate touch with the hammerite.

Impending sub-project will also be making my own bushes from some PU I bought. They're a simple one (obvs), so it's just an experiment really, but at 1/4 the cost of powerflex, it's got to be worth a go since they've got no lips or complex shapes. Watch this space.

Edited by Smitters on Monday 12th November 14:05

[Smitters]

InitialDave said:

Just caught up on the last few posts, I think you did not bad there, that's a lot less rust than the front end of mine had!

Cheers. It's an 02 build car, sold in 04, so a way before the real cost cutting came in and the underseal was more an afterthought. There is lots of surface rust though, so I'm having to be restrained in what I actually put effort into. The section where the floorpan rises up into the chassis legs and firewall seems very prone to rust, so I'm slapping on the satin black with gay abandon and tring to ignore the subframes which are peeling like onions.

In other news, my home-made parts washer for small parts, which consists of a plastic 500ml food container, a good squirt of Fairy, very hot water and some crushed pasta, plus some vigorous shaking for a few mins is very, very surprisingly effective, if a little tiring. Obviously not ideal for a manifold, but good for arb droplinks...

[Smitters]

InitialDave said:

Yes, mine had big holes there, it's definitely a bit of a trap for it. After I'd done the patching up, I waxoyled and undersealed the hell out of the whole car!

Bilt Hamber's website had a "take my money" moment last month... seam seal, underseal, cavity spray, all sorts. If I charged myself my own daily rate on labour, plus the various bits, I'm already into it for way over purchase price. Good job I'm free!

[Smitters]

Coming soon, with pics, how to shape a bush the way you want it to be... mmmm... bush.

[Smitters]

mattyprice4004 said:

Sorry, didn't see your reply to my post!
Lovely to see one getting some love - my ZT-T is away with a good friend having similar treatment.

With regards to the HG, my honest opinion is that they Payen BW750 (or a copy of it) is the way to go - it just needs to be the latest iteration of such.
The MLS, while on paper is much better, does have some flaws - notably that it absolutely cannot deal with low or uneven liners (which a large proportion of K Series do have by this time).

If you need any impartial advice, you're welcome to PM me on here or drop a line to [e-mail]

Cheers - I'll do that next week for sure. About to create some garage space, so will be able to do the engine work finally.



So, where was I in my tale of learning...

As yes, rust. There are only so many photos of a badly repainted car people need to see, especially as it simply highlights my somewhat cavalier attitude to quality finishes. I'm inspired by Project Binky for sure, but my outcomes are distinctly more Roadkill/early MCM. Not necessarily a bad thing. This is a cheap car. I do not need to spend 20 hours stripping and repainting the underside.

However, for your amusement:




Biggest issue here was actually the seam sealer lifting and having to chase rust into the panel seams. I haven't got it by any means, so this will eventually die, but I've slowed it right down with my SEMA spec paint job.



SEMA - Society of Extremely Messy Artists



The leading edge above is a very popular spot for rust. In pulling the bungs from those two holes (which I've now lost - slick work) the amount of dust and dirt on the inside is alarming. It was dry on one side, wet on the other, but either way, I'll be getting in there somehow with a tool or two and then spraying cavity seal in for good measure.



I'll be honest, this lot probably needs a second coat of paint. Where it's gone down to the bare metal the Hammerite doesn't adhere as well and runs more easily, thinning the coat.

Anyway, this marks pretty much the end of painting at the front end. There's lots more I could do, but it's diminishing returns and there are plenty of other areas to address too. I'm just pleased there's nothing structural and the sills look really solid. The last jobs will be that final coat of black anywhere that looks thin, then remount the ARB with my shiny new Polish bushes (which are "in the post..." hmmm). Then it's wheels on and either engine or de-rust the back. Probably engine and that's a big hurdle and once I've completed that I can actually drive it a bit before jacking the back up and dumping another load of st into my eyes, mouth and hair. Incidentally, Hammerite is a bd to get off your face. I wouldn't recommend doing a quick spot of painting before going to a PTA meeting. People look at you a bit funny when you have as many black dots and stripes on your face as I did and with my balding bonce, I've got a LOT of face.



So, homemade bushes. TLDR - don't bother. Or at least, have better tools, more patience and a more precise approach.

Step 1: Make tiny parts washer to clean the bits...



That's a food pot with Fairy Liquid, crushed dried pasta and hot water. And a lot of shaking. Surprisingly effective, but again, not as much fun as an illicit dishwasher sesh... so Step 2, do Step 1, but properly:



These are nicely dry after a stint in a cooling oven after cooking my pizza. I would say if you want to get away with this, don't have them still in the oven, in an oven dish when a hungry missus comes home. The double whammy of parts in a household appliance ("Why were they wet...wait, how did you clean them?") and the things in the oven not being tasty, lovingly prepared food isn't ideal.

Step 3: Roses, chocolate, soothing tones.

Step 4: Start trimming your bush...



I needed eight. So repeat your trimming ten more times. Because fk-ups.

Step 5: Add holes, then the chamfered edge. Try with a knife. Decide I like being able to count to ten. Opt for something safer. Like mounting my drill in a vice, then spinning the bush up and shaving it with the knife...



Decide I like my eyes, head and chest without a flying Stanley knife in them. Pause for a coffee and rethink things.



Better. However, the length of time it took to wind each bush on and off the allen bolt (twice per bush, to chamfer both edges), the actual chamfering, plus the fact that my extremely poor "by eye" drilling meant more than a few holes started central, but have ended up popping out slightly off centre gives the TLDR. Interesting exercise, but probably not worth the effort.

I'd love to now post a picture of the finished droplinks all nicely repainted, sorry - all badly repainted - and rebuilt with snazzy orange bushes, but instead I received the message "Your infant son has chickenpox. He's not very impressed." So it's back to reality and the responsibilities of life. I mean - how st would it be to have so many itches, but no coordination to scratch them?



Congratulations for making it this far. TBC...

[Smitters]

Ouch. I'd say so. Did you weld, or scrap?

[Smitters]

daniel-5zjw7 said:

Glad its not looking too bad OP! Certainly will be good to learn on! Was really interested in a v6 when i was last in the market (1500 max to spend) but was put off by the rust issues/inlet/cambelt etc etc and went for an e46 in the end, but still have a soft spot for the mg's! Am I right in saying the zs has the underpinnings of the previous gen honda civic?

Yes and no on the Civic. Certainly based on it, but there are some subtle differences. I saw a pair of lower control arms side by side and the shock mount is slightly offset. I'm yet to find a definitive resource. That said, the front arb bush that's coming is also a fit for a dc2 Integra.

Anyone have any pearls of wisdom on the platform share?

[Smitters]

It may not seem ideal to wave a broken car off on a ramp truck, so you can work on another broken car, but that's what today heralded, so I can look forward to a) tidying the garage and then b) being dry when working on the MG. Assuming it fits...