Timewarp Rover 200 BRM
Discussion
Those PH'ers who know me will be familiar with my illness with the unfortunate incurable symptoms of buying 1990's and 2000's era MG Rover products ( See here for Rover 75 based evidence).
The disease was contracted in my childhood growing up surrounded by MGR products-my parents owned such delights as a Maestro, a R8 214Si then a 214SEI, a couple of 75 Connoisseurs and a Rover 200Vi, a personal favourite. I've owned examples of R8's, a 75 and ZT, but I've never managed to find a mint 200Vi to buy. I did a few months ago, but the bugger slipped through my fingers.
However, while searching, I found a 38k mile, dry stored for 12 years 200 BRM that seemed absolutely perfect. Cue a hurried drive up the M6 to Litchfield, to find an absolutely spanking car with zero rot (try that now-BRM's were allegedly hand built over the course of a week's night shifts at Longbridge, and seem to have zero rustproofing as a result), a mint interior and just generally a nectar car to a Rover bee such as me…
A deal was struck to include the plate, and the nervous journey south on a decade plus old cam belt began.
It didn’t go well.
The M6 wasn’t that nice a place to wait for the RAC (membership strongly advised if owning a fleet of British vehicles). Fortunately the cam belt was intact, the alternator decided that it didn’t want to be part of the onward adventure.
The nice man from the RAC turned up, filled the car up with electricity and followed us off the motorway to a pub to wait for the relay flat beds home. At least the petrol saving paid for a steak-I just got home at 2am after leaving Birmingham at 5pm…
Home the next day, I began the extraction of the offending alternator, replacing it with a genuine Rover one (in stock at Brown & Gammons, much as I detest using them) and carried out a full service to include fresh cam belts, a water pump, coolant, spark plugs and filters. A pleasant morning’s work-nothing was seized, everything came apart easily and underneath the car was as mint as the top. Fortunately the battery survived being flattened and took a trickle charge happily.
Unfortunately when the previous owner had driven the car out of long term storage, she’d caught the O/S/R wheel arch and creased it slightly. A real shame; what was even more frustrating is the paintless dent repairer who attacked it before I picked it up created a mess modelled on a teenagers face. I don’t have a picture of the damage as I couldn’t bring myself to photograph it, even though it was pretty small (about the size of a hand, and not even a David Seamon palm, either).
Finishline in Gravely to the rescue. They also refurbished the wheels and did some precautionary tidying of the boot hinges, a common R8 rust point.
A set of new Dunlop tyres (the cars were originally supplied on Dunlop rubber-I want to maintain originality), a geometry check, a machine polish and the car is ready to…be tucked away for winter. Sigh.
I’ve had a few drives on dry days and it’s just great-raw like modern hot hatches aren’t, the power is all at the top end of the rev range (think 6000 rpm before things really start happening), the LSD is pure witchcraft (Milton Keynes roundabouts are great fun) and the grip it generates on supple suspension could teach a few modern cars a lesson. It’s not powerful at all compared to modern stuff but it really involves the driver.
Hope you enjoy the finished article. Here’s to Pride of Longbridge and sunny days next year-it’s going to be preserved but used for 1-2k fun miles a year.
The disease was contracted in my childhood growing up surrounded by MGR products-my parents owned such delights as a Maestro, a R8 214Si then a 214SEI, a couple of 75 Connoisseurs and a Rover 200Vi, a personal favourite. I've owned examples of R8's, a 75 and ZT, but I've never managed to find a mint 200Vi to buy. I did a few months ago, but the bugger slipped through my fingers.
However, while searching, I found a 38k mile, dry stored for 12 years 200 BRM that seemed absolutely perfect. Cue a hurried drive up the M6 to Litchfield, to find an absolutely spanking car with zero rot (try that now-BRM's were allegedly hand built over the course of a week's night shifts at Longbridge, and seem to have zero rustproofing as a result), a mint interior and just generally a nectar car to a Rover bee such as me…
A deal was struck to include the plate, and the nervous journey south on a decade plus old cam belt began.
It didn’t go well.
The M6 wasn’t that nice a place to wait for the RAC (membership strongly advised if owning a fleet of British vehicles). Fortunately the cam belt was intact, the alternator decided that it didn’t want to be part of the onward adventure.
The nice man from the RAC turned up, filled the car up with electricity and followed us off the motorway to a pub to wait for the relay flat beds home. At least the petrol saving paid for a steak-I just got home at 2am after leaving Birmingham at 5pm…
Home the next day, I began the extraction of the offending alternator, replacing it with a genuine Rover one (in stock at Brown & Gammons, much as I detest using them) and carried out a full service to include fresh cam belts, a water pump, coolant, spark plugs and filters. A pleasant morning’s work-nothing was seized, everything came apart easily and underneath the car was as mint as the top. Fortunately the battery survived being flattened and took a trickle charge happily.
Unfortunately when the previous owner had driven the car out of long term storage, she’d caught the O/S/R wheel arch and creased it slightly. A real shame; what was even more frustrating is the paintless dent repairer who attacked it before I picked it up created a mess modelled on a teenagers face. I don’t have a picture of the damage as I couldn’t bring myself to photograph it, even though it was pretty small (about the size of a hand, and not even a David Seamon palm, either).
Finishline in Gravely to the rescue. They also refurbished the wheels and did some precautionary tidying of the boot hinges, a common R8 rust point.
A set of new Dunlop tyres (the cars were originally supplied on Dunlop rubber-I want to maintain originality), a geometry check, a machine polish and the car is ready to…be tucked away for winter. Sigh.
I’ve had a few drives on dry days and it’s just great-raw like modern hot hatches aren’t, the power is all at the top end of the rev range (think 6000 rpm before things really start happening), the LSD is pure witchcraft (Milton Keynes roundabouts are great fun) and the grip it generates on supple suspension could teach a few modern cars a lesson. It’s not powerful at all compared to modern stuff but it really involves the driver.
Hope you enjoy the finished article. Here’s to Pride of Longbridge and sunny days next year-it’s going to be preserved but used for 1-2k fun miles a year.
Edited by itcaptainslow on Thursday 15th November 13:25
martin mrt said:
Ive always had a bit of a liking for these, secretly.
The interior was amazingly over the top when they were new, but time has been kind to them and I think they look fantastic
Many won't "get" them, but for those that do, what a fantastic car in amazing condition
It's certainly an event being in it. This one has obviously had an easy life but there's no squeaks or rattles and the leather feels beautiful-soft, supple and thick.The interior was amazingly over the top when they were new, but time has been kind to them and I think they look fantastic
Many won't "get" them, but for those that do, what a fantastic car in amazing condition
daniel-5zjw7 said:
Awesome! Always liked these, and this one must be 1 of 1 condition wise! How many are actually left?
1145 were build, 795 for the UK market. How Many Left suggests 121 are currently taxed with 238 SORN (mine will be joining that figure soon for winter).thebrm.co.uk owners club usually tries to see how many it can get together for Pride of Longbridge, I’m not sure of the numbers it garners but it’s not the sort of car you buy by accident, so hopefully most of them are known to the club. Mine has been off the radar for a number of years!
Sadly they’re usually worth more in bits; that interior is obviously worth something in good condition but the part everyone is really after is the PG1 gearbox with the close ratios and LSD. It’s a straight swap into a S1 Elise!
Sebastian Tombs said:
Lovely car. Always like the interiors on these.
I came here because you have just been mentioned on Smith and Sniff's Suzuki Jimny video - at 1:13, with a just about discernible shot of the rear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KEhMLOK_0U&fe...
Ha! Funnily enough I remember thinking “It’s a new Jimny!” when I saw that the other day!I came here because you have just been mentioned on Smith and Sniff's Suzuki Jimny video - at 1:13, with a just about discernible shot of the rear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KEhMLOK_0U&fe...
Some dealerships painted the orange snout silver because they thought it was hindering sales-they clearly didn’t get the reference...
300bhp/ton said:
itcaptainslow said:
daniel-5zjw7 said:
Awesome! Always liked these, and this one must be 1 of 1 condition wise! How many are actually left?
1145 were build, 795 for the UK market. How Many Left suggests 121 are currently taxed with 238 SORN (mine will be joining that figure soon for winter).thebrm.co.uk owners club usually tries to see how many it can get together for Pride of Longbridge, I’m not sure of the numbers it garners but it’s not the sort of car you buy by accident, so hopefully most of them are known to the club. Mine has been off the radar for a number of years!
Sadly they’re usually worth more in bits; that interior is obviously worth something in good condition but the part everyone is really after is the PG1 gearbox with the close ratios and LSD. It’s a straight swap into a S1 Elise!
Do you mind me asking, what sort of money did you pay for it? I know of 2 BRMs, both will be off the radar of the owners club.
I’m hoping in a couple of years time it looks cheap-modern classic hot hatches seem to be gathering pace all the time on the market, especially as the bad examples die out and people want a nostalgia fix.
Edited by itcaptainslow on Sunday 17th May 19:45
Stuballs said:
Greetings fellow BRM owner and congrats on finding such a minter! Looks amazing!
Mine, like many, was a bit sorry when I got it. Then I dailied it for a couple of years which made the rust even worse. They are sooooo much worse for rust than the other R8s! I fettled mine a bit and had all the rust fixed when it was resprayed. She lives in a garage now!
Agree with the other comments about the seats - no support at all. Add more grip from coilovers and they are hilariously bad.
I love mine and will never sell it!
Hopefully see you at Pride of Longbridge on 13th April next year. The number of BRM's decreases every year. My first year there were 37! The pic below was 2016 when I think we had about 22
Awesome! Can’t wait for that. Hope the weather is good...Mine, like many, was a bit sorry when I got it. Then I dailied it for a couple of years which made the rust even worse. They are sooooo much worse for rust than the other R8s! I fettled mine a bit and had all the rust fixed when it was resprayed. She lives in a garage now!
Agree with the other comments about the seats - no support at all. Add more grip from coilovers and they are hilariously bad.
I love mine and will never sell it!
Hopefully see you at Pride of Longbridge on 13th April next year. The number of BRM's decreases every year. My first year there were 37! The pic below was 2016 when I think we had about 22
I went many years ago in my ZS180 (when I had it-I miss that thing) and it was a great day out.
Fast Bug said:
itcaptainslow said:
Some dealerships painted the orange snout silver because they thought it was hindering sales-they clearly didn’t get the reference...
I sold the new one we had, complete with orange snout. We considered painting it silver though as we had a couple of potential buyers say no to it because of the orange. Great fun to drive 
CharlieAlphaMike said:
mattyprice4004 said:
That's the cam locking tool - but it does indeed look like cardboard at a distance!
Thanks. It does look very odd doesn't it?Edited by itcaptainslow on Saturday 17th November 14:39
CharlieAlphaMike said:
itcaptainslow said:
Edited by itcaptainslow on Thursday 15th November 13:25
Incidentally, are my eyes deceiving me or is that a piece of cardboard keeping the cams in place?
I didn’t see the last couple of replies to this thread until I popped back in to post something-sorry chaps!
I remember the dealership well. It was right in the centre of the City, close to the railway station and right on the corner of a busy cross roads (traffic light controlled). At that time, I had Rover's as company cars; a 216S followed by the new replacement, the 214 (with the Honda derived engine). The 216 was hopeless - the sunroof leaked from day 1 and was never cured and it was always breaking down. Luckily I didn't have it for long before it was replaced by the 214 which was much improved. My 214 was in white with the lower body painted in grey. I recall a colleague having the same car but in beige with grey lower body paint
Can you imagine that?
Here's a link to a pic of the dealer forecourt as was:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shaw2bshaw/12751367
And an article relating to it's closure:
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/s...Thanks for the picture and article-always nice to see stuff like that. Shame the dealership isn’t around in some form still today.
The 214 (R8 shape) would have been the K-Series engine! The 216 could have either been the Honda unit or the K-Series.
Must admit as much as I liked the R3 the two tone colour schemes were questionable...! My parents had a Charcoal 214SEI which looked really smart-the shape did suit darker colours better as it has quite mature, classy lines. Bright colours look a bit weird on it.
The ties with Honda had been severed by the time the R3 was launched, although it carried over some of the underpinnings from the R8.
The 1.8 VVC seen in the BRM produces a peak output of 143bhp-later VVC units in the ZR/TF160 were 160bhp thanks to a different ECU, throttle body, machining work on the cylinder head (although this is sometimes debated apparently!) and stronger pistons (which don’t actually add to the power output).
There’s a reason the K-Series is popular with kit car builders and was used by Lotus & Caterham for years-it’s extremely light and powerful for the size, plus easily tuneable.
CharlieAlphaMike said:
itcaptainslow said:
It’s been in the area all of its life-the first and second owners were both local. I think the dealership has now gone, sadly-can anyone confirm?
I left Lichfield over 18 years ago and I'm sure it was still a Rover dealer then. It appears to have been taken over at some point and converted to Ford before finally having to close it's doors last year. I remember the dealership well. It was right in the centre of the City, close to the railway station and right on the corner of a busy cross roads (traffic light controlled). At that time, I had Rover's as company cars; a 216S followed by the new replacement, the 214 (with the Honda derived engine). The 216 was hopeless - the sunroof leaked from day 1 and was never cured and it was always breaking down. Luckily I didn't have it for long before it was replaced by the 214 which was much improved. My 214 was in white with the lower body painted in grey. I recall a colleague having the same car but in beige with grey lower body paint
Can you imagine that?Here's a link to a pic of the dealer forecourt as was:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shaw2bshaw/12751367
And an article relating to it's closure:
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/s...
The 214 (R8 shape) would have been the K-Series engine! The 216 could have either been the Honda unit or the K-Series.
Must admit as much as I liked the R3 the two tone colour schemes were questionable...! My parents had a Charcoal 214SEI which looked really smart-the shape did suit darker colours better as it has quite mature, classy lines. Bright colours look a bit weird on it.
chrismc1977 said:
I always consider that these Rovers (along with the previous generation) are pretty sound mechanically given the Honda underpinnings...
Not sure how the engines stack up? The old 1400 K seemed a willing unit but not sure about the larger capacities...what are the book figures??
Must be good with a diff!
Apart from the Honda 1.6 unit in some versions of the previous generation R8 to my BRM (which is the R3 shape), most of the engineering was Rover. I’m awaiting the arrival of MG John here! Not sure how the engines stack up? The old 1400 K seemed a willing unit but not sure about the larger capacities...what are the book figures??
Must be good with a diff!
The ties with Honda had been severed by the time the R3 was launched, although it carried over some of the underpinnings from the R8.The 1.8 VVC seen in the BRM produces a peak output of 143bhp-later VVC units in the ZR/TF160 were 160bhp thanks to a different ECU, throttle body, machining work on the cylinder head (although this is sometimes debated apparently!) and stronger pistons (which don’t actually add to the power output).
There’s a reason the K-Series is popular with kit car builders and was used by Lotus & Caterham for years-it’s extremely light and powerful for the size, plus easily tuneable.
Escy said:
I thought the K series engine was popular with kit car builders, Lotus and Caterham as they knew their target market like to wield a spanner and the K series is the gift that keeps on giving in that respect. The headgasket is near enough a service item. 
It’s not if it’s fixed properly, with the correct parts, checking the correct things and using the correct procedures. 
Fun Bus said:
I’m watching the Sniff n Smith video on YouTube of the new Suzuki Jimny (I like Porter, not the Jimny) and what gets a mention at 1 minute 12 seconds?!
OP, check it out.
Seen it already thanks to a mention earlier in the thread. I was desperately trying to think where I was when that must have been taken (I haven’t exactly done many miles in the BRM!) but am none the wiser!OP, check it out.
AshD said:
Itcaptainslow - i think i may have seen you a couple of months ago. I’m only a few miles up the road from you in Bedfordshire and waved at the driver from my Up Gti and the driver (you?) waved back noting my appreciation of your steer.
Of course there could be another one in the area.
(Also got a slight soft spot for Rover’s having had a 620, 620Ti and a v6 75 in the past along with an S1 Elise 135)
I remember it-near Shefford! I do also remember thinking “Ooooh, Up GTI!” (my girlfriend has one) so I was as much showing appreciation for your car too Of course there could be another one in the area.
(Also got a slight soft spot for Rover’s having had a 620, 620Ti and a v6 75 in the past along with an S1 Elise 135)
AshD said:
itcaptainslow said:
AshD said:
Itcaptainslow - i think i may have seen you a couple of months ago. I’m only a few miles up the road from you in Bedfordshire and waved at the driver from my Up Gti and the driver (you?) waved back noting my appreciation of your steer.
Of course there could be another one in the area.
(Also got a slight soft spot for Rover’s having had a 620, 620Ti and a v6 75 in the past along with an S1 Elise 135)
I remember it-near Shefford! I do also remember thinking “Ooooh, Up GTI!” (my girlfriend has one) so I was as much showing appreciation for your car too Of course there could be another one in the area.
(Also got a slight soft spot for Rover’s having had a 620, 620Ti and a v6 75 in the past along with an S1 Elise 135)
Definitely lusting after your BRM - enjoy!
Mr Whippy said:
Wow, interesting car to find in such condition.
I always liked the look of these in the day and they’ve aged well on the outside!
Those seats though, surely as part of the package they’re the weak link when properly using the car?
Considering special diff, gearbox and suspension etc, something a bit more racey would have been expected?
I wonder why anyone would store such a car for so long though. It’s got to be rare to find such a car?
You do tend to hang onto the steering wheel when cornering hard! The Vi seats worked better in that respect as the centre was velour, so gripped your backside.I always liked the look of these in the day and they’ve aged well on the outside!
Those seats though, surely as part of the package they’re the weak link when properly using the car?
Considering special diff, gearbox and suspension etc, something a bit more racey would have been expected?
I wonder why anyone would store such a car for so long though. It’s got to be rare to find such a car?
However, the leather in mine smells utterly delicious...
suffolk009 said:
I had one for a couple of years a while back.
My wife hated it on sight, then as she started to drive it she ended up loving it. Got some stick from friends about it (esp the interior) but they too ended up liking it.
It came with a silver pout, which is why I photographed it's backside in the photo on the way home from picking it up. I got that sprayed orange the second day I owned it.
Some dealers sprayed the snout silver as they thought it was putting buyers off!My wife hated it on sight, then as she started to drive it she ended up loving it. Got some stick from friends about it (esp the interior) but they too ended up liking it.
It came with a silver pout, which is why I photographed it's backside in the photo on the way home from picking it up. I got that sprayed orange the second day I owned it.
J4CKO said:
chrismc1977 said:
I wonder if the shorter fd swaps in to the BRM LSD box?
Easy & cheapish Performance boost if so, and very much under the radar
Is it a performance boost though ? You dont have any more power.Easy & cheapish Performance boost if so, and very much under the radar
It was chosen specifically as a package and works well on the road, shorter diff ratios tend to mean you accelerate marginally more quickly in gear but change more often and end up with more revs on the motorway, remember going in an Escort with a 2 litre Pinto but it had a 1.3 diff which apparently made it super fast, it did seem quick but inappropriate for the engine.
suffolk009 said:
itcaptainslow said:
Some dealers sprayed the snout silver as they thought it was putting buyers off!
My favourite local mechanic (looks after all my cars now) was an apprentice at a Rover garage at the time. They did just that to the orange - some others painted them green to match. Apparently they had a BRM "forced" upon them. Most delaerships took an age to sell them, so they let the cars be used as the shop runaround. 18 years old kids then (not unsurprisingly) wrapped them around lamposts and put them in ditches at an alarming rate. This gave them a wildly distorted record with the insurers and premiums went up accordingly*.- so I am told.
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