Maserati Gransport (aka the wedding dress)

[Zombie]

Confession time.

Forgive me Father for I have sinned.

I have strayed from the flock of the Busso Chuch and the Diocese of Alfa Romeo.

I've been been worshiping at the altar of Maserati.

And, right now, After3 months of "challenging" ownership, I beg your forgiveness....

Edited by Zombie on Monday 4th November 21:33

[Zombie]

I've not been keeping this quite as such. I'd been looking for a 4200 for a while, at least 12 months and certainly before PH posted there "spotted" article;

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-eurocars/maser...

(Thanks for highlighting that Matt...)

For some reason, probably socio-economic, the search for one was particularly difficult as most 4200's are entered around London, which is a 4-500 mile round trip for me. The other problem was of my own doing. I wanted a Gransport rather than a 4200.

They're effectively the same car, the 4200 is better spec'd, equipment wise but the GS is regarded as the better drive.

After looking at a number of cars, all in the same far away location, on separate occasions, I wasn't exactly conned into buying a car but the high pressure sales tactics that, only with hindsight, have become apparent resulted in my purchase.

Most would have described this thread using the phrase "brave pill"...

So why call it the wedding dress? Well, it's fuji white. I showed a picture of it to the girls in the office before I went to see it and they described it as such.

The interior isn't much better in terms of colour choice, but then again, most 4200's look like they've been spec'd by Stevie Wonder.

Pics from the original ad;

s-l1600 by Chris, on Flickr

s-l1600-6 by Chris, on Flickr

[Zombie]

We've (the car and I) had a difficult relationship since then. Starting with it dribbling gearbox oil all over my drive. I was aware it had a leak though previous MOT history but it proved to be more significant than the "minor" description.

And other more minor issues... I apologise for my laziness but what follows now is C&P'd from the Maser forum...

4 Days into Maserati ownership and I ran into my first issue today. Battery Voltage, which was showing on the gauge as slightly less than this;

IMG_1240 by Chris, on Flickr

I had a bit of a panic about it but figured, a voltage that low would be causing issues and warning lights. Something confirm by the people on the 4200 Faceballs group.

I did go though it when I got home. Firstly I tested the battery;

IMG_1236 by Chris, on Flickr

Which is fine;

IMG_1237 by Chris, on Flickr

And then the alternator, without and then with electrical load (Heated rear window, lights, fan etc);

IMG_1239 by Chris, on Flickr

All of which means that the gauge is perhaps under-reading. It's difficult to tell as, in my opinion, the markings are contradictory / ambiguous.

Edited by Zombie on Monday 4th November 01:47

[Zombie]

I mentioned a gearbox oil leak earlier in the thread, which has resulted in some further investigation being undertaken over the weekend;

IMG_1378 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1377 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1379-2 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1375 by Chris, on Flickr

All seems good up front, it has the "right" exhaust manifolds for a start.

IMG_1373-2 by Chris, on Flickr

Moving to the back of the car...

A leak from the diff oil seals would be consistent with the evidence, the brace between the exhausts was liberally coated in gearbox oil;

IMG_1364 by Chris, on Flickr

But the seals are dry;

IMG_1371 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1372 by Chris, on Flickr

It seems to be coming from above the rubber bung in the pic below. There are some actuators up there but I don't think they're the cause and I do think it is gearbox oil.

I was seriously hungover at the time so I didn't get to far into it, I just topped the gearbox oil up with 3-400ml (apparently it takes 3l) of 75/90 and I'll look into later when I've finished rebuilding the other car's engine.

[Zombie]

(30th Aug 2019)

I've had another look at the g/box leak tonight and I'm still no further forward with it...

This time I took the boot apart;

IMG_8916 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1400 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1399 by Chris, on Flickr

My Dad mention he'd found a guide relating to topping up the selespeed system and that the writer stated that he was simply able to remove the heat shield. I'd like to know how as I don't think it can be done without bending it in half or removing the rear bumper!

I was able to wriggle it out of the way after applying some masking take to the inside off the rear diffuser to stop it being scratched.

IMG_8917 by Chris, on Flickr

And I learnt nothing. It's no leaking out of the hydraulic pipes.

IMG_8925 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_8923 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_8920 by Chris, on Flickr

I'm back to it's leaking around the rear mount;

IMG_8919 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_8918 by Chris, on Flickr

Which makes me wonder if there is a problem with the mount itself? It seems to be filled with a liquid, is it some kind of weird type that is somehow filled with gearbox oil? I can't imagine it would be... (ETA, it's not)

IMG_8918 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_8927 by Chris, on Flickr

The only thing I can think to do now is unbolt the engine mount and the corsmember it's attached to and see if there's anything obvious there.

But I can't work out how to support the gearbox whilst I do that. The bottom of the box has a fragile looking box attached to it;

IMG_1364 by Chris, on Flickr

Anyone know what function the box serves?

And does anyone have any suggestions where the leak might be coming from?

Thanks.

[Zombie]

I'm pretty sure it's gearbox oil. Certainly smells like the stuff. But I don't remember what the hydraulic oil used in selespeed systems smells like? Is it the same horrible smell?

The clutch wear reading as of <500 miles ago was;

s-l1600-29 by Chris, on Flickr

It drops maybe 50ml on the drive after I've used it, i.e. when its hot. Not a lot but enough to be annoying.

I had it up on axle stands, ran it up to 60mph through the gears, no leak was evident.

Looking at these pics I found of a gearbox;

s-l1600-27 by Chris, on Flickr

s-l1600-26 by Chris, on Flickr

s-l1600-22 by Chris, on Flickr

s-l1600-23 by Chris, on Flickr

s-l1600-25 by Chris, on Flickr

There isn't anywhere for the box to be leaking from.

So it must be the hydraulics.

Or the gearbox casing is cracked

[Zombie]

(30th Aug 2019)

Couple of other bits of info, as much for my own information than anything else as I'm having to covert everything from km into miles...

11th Oct 2017 MOT 41564 miles

No advisory for oil leak.

19th Oct 2018 MOT 44646 miles

Advisory for oil leak recorded.

18th Aug 2019 I bought it at 45,500 miles

It's now done 46ish k. (250 mile return journey + general showing off)

So it did 3k between Oct 2017 and 2018 and developed the oil leak during that time. In the following 10 months it has travelled less than 1k miles. Most of which are likely mohave been in the dealers hands as "it's taxed and had petrol in it" lol

I suppose it is plausible that it had a clutch late 2017 and having only done 1k since it could still be over filled with hydraulic fluid?

Or am I being overly optimistic?

[Zombie]

I've carried on with the investigating over the last couple of evenings;

IMG_8930 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_8931 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_8933 by Chris, on Flickr

Which included removing the bumper to liberate the heat shield...

IMG_8939 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_8942 by Chris, on Flickr

And the subframe crossmember / gearbox mount

IMG_8944 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_8948 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_8940 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_8941 by Chris, on Flickr

I couldn't see the leak but my Dad had a look and we concluded its leaking where the feed pipe (no 17) from the pump enters into what eurospares describe as the power unit (distribution block with all the solenoids on it) or no. 1 in the diagram.

106_026 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_8948 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_8947 by Chris, on Flickr

What isn't clear is whether or not it is leaking from the pipe union or the larger hex head that the union screws into.

I've put the wheels back for now whilst we think about that and another problem which is...

IMG_8937 by Chris, on Flickr

Firstly, I was expecting it to have adjustable height platforms on the suspension strut, but it doesn't. Is that right?

And the problem is there's fore-aft movement in the upper arm ball joint on both sides.

I'm assuming that there should be none?

That being the case, what's the best (i.e. cheapest) way of repairing them? I know you can get replacement bushes but is there anyone who can refurb the ball joint itself?

[Zombie]

There was an M8 bolt missing out of the top of the gearbox. All it does is clamp a pipe or wiring harness (can't remember which) to the top of the box. The bolt hole itself was hidden behind the wiring to the actuators (3,4,5) and a sensor (pressure?) above no 3.

In this pic I've lodged a torch between the boot floor and the actuator block, and it's shining light on a little ratchet spanner, which should give an indication of the position of the bolt;

IMG_8951 by Chris, on Flickr

And a close up...

IMG_8953 by Chris, on Flickr

I was able to confirm with the straw from a can of brake cleaner that it is a tapped hole that is open at the other end inside the gearbox. Which explains why it was gearbox oil and why it wasn't leaking at standstill.

[Zombie]

Next job on the list... Upper rear arms, which had worn ball joints.

IMG_8955-2 by Chris, on Flickr

On the face of it, it seemed a relatively easy task, undo the ball joint (19mm nut) and the nut/bolt (22mm) through the bushes.

Of course, it's not that easy. We had to drop the rear subframe by around 15mm (but still keeping it on it's mounting bolts) to get the rearmost bush mounting bolts out. They have various C shaped shims either side of the arm inside of the mount, which is something to be aware of if you choose to do this yourself.

IMG_8959 by Chris, on Flickr

The ball joint is an odd setup too. The 19mm nut is a prevailing torque nut for a start, bit it needs to be;

IMG_8970 by Chris, on Flickr

The stud needs to unwind and come out from the ball joint socket, the prevailing torque nut means that this happens, in theory. The same applies when it comes to refitting it. The stud should wind into the ball joint, bottom out and then the nut should tighten up.

Thing about all this is, in order for it to come apart as it should, it needs to be free of corrosion.

The same applies to the nuts and bolts through the upper arms. I was talking to Stuart at Trident Spares and he was saying that in the case of these, they can corrode, expand and crack the pivot points open... Which is a bit worrying.

Fortunately, whoever replaced the arms before us (they were date stamped 2006, car is 2005) used a suitable assembly lube and it all came apart as it should;

IMG_8961 by Chris, on Flickr

And we put it back together with the new arms using copper slip... But I forgot to take a pic of it reassembled.

Next job was to put the rear end - bumper, heat shields, boot floor, electrics, battery & interior trim back in.

I'd made a half hearted attempt to clean the bumper one evening last week;

IMG_1467 by Chris, on Flickr

And the heatshield needed a clean as well;

IMG_1471 by Chris, on Flickr

The heat shield was easy enough, 10 min with some degreaser and a stiff brush was all it took. I also made some repairs around one of the mounts to the boot floor.

As for the bumper, I left it at my parent's house and as if by magic...

IMG_1473-2 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1478-3 by Chris, on Flickr

I also gave the exhaust pipes a bit of a clean;

IMG_1475 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1477 by Chris, on Flickr

Finally back in one piece;

IMG_1480 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1479 by Chris, on Flickr

It's now nearly at a point where I'm happy with it, mechanically.

It could probably do with a service and a gearbox oil change.

The brakes are OK..

Back tyres are nearly on the wear bars, new ones have been ordered.

And it needs a new N/S track rod. I'm going to order that this week and once that's been fitted, get it in for tracking - It will have needed to be done after the rears arms, so it makes sense to do it all in one go.

[Zombie]

18th Oct 2019

MOT is due today. I was late booking it into my prefered garage so it's not going in till Tuesday now. I'm not overly worried about it. In addition to the the work we've undertaken recently, I've also put new tyres on the back as they were down to 2.5mm.

There was also an advisory for the nearside steering track rod last year. Given the amount of miles it's done in the meanwhile, I don't think it should of passed given the amount of movement it had.

IMG_1588 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1589 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1590 by Chris, on Flickr

A basic attempt at measuring to ensure the tracking was somewhere near, but the tolerances for tracking are extremely tight so getting it right isn't easy;

IMG_1591 by Chris, on Flickr

And, given that it's had new arms at the back, tyres and a track rod... A full alignment seemed like a worthwhile adventure;

IMG_1602 by Chris, on Flickr

[Zombie]

Oct 27th 2019

Passed it's MOT this week. A proper MOT where they actually scrutinised the car...

Pass, no advisories. Pleased with that.

[Zombie]

romeodelta said:

Lovely.

I've always seen these as the spiritual successor to the 916 GTV V6 I had, but I've not been able to take the plunge for various reasons.

Kudos for not being afraid to do the work yourself as well.

Thanks

Brompty said:

What a car - and well done for being brave enough to buy it knowing that you will have work to do.

Hmmm.... whilst I knew about the g/box leak and the track rod, the upper rear arms were an expensive unknown.

hondafanatic said:

Thanks for taking the time and effort to type all that up. Really interesting. Hope you continue to find the time to update this thread.

How do find the car from a drivers point of view?

Thanks.

Most of the (limited) miles I've done in it have been undertaken with the dodgy rear wishbones and tracking that was off so I've not really formed an opinion as yet;

It's entertaining.

Much like the other car ( 147 GTA ) it's dominated by that engine, which sounds mega, even with a standard system - the Gransports have silencer bypass flaps in them. They also make for an interesting comparison as for all their fundamental differences, they're very similar in character.

It doesn't have the same, instant, throttle response of the GTA though. It's very quick, but it needs revs whereas the GTA with a torque biasing diff just goes instantly in any gear at any rev range. Genuinely, I think the GTA would be the faster point to point car just because its power is more user friendly.

In the wet it will light up the back in 3rd gear at 70mph, which can be entertaining or downright terrifying. But, *touches wood* I think if you're sensible, and leave the traction control on (for those unexpected puddles like on a dual carriageway on-slip...) It seems to be very forgiving.

The steering is super sharp and isn't inert. Ride quality is good, better than the GTA.

the gearbox can be a faff. It's great and completely intuitive IF you're moving, but it's clumsy at slow speeds and you end up look like a right show off at lights or roundabouts as you really need to drop it into 1st on the approach, which means a downshift and throttle blip. I'm also mindful to keep it in Neutral whilst waiting in traffic, which means if you want to engage 1st, you need your foot on the brakes...

[Zombie]

omniflow said:

Yup - love your threads, love the detail, love the obvious passion for doing things right, love the cars. I have an Alfa 156 GTA and a Maserati, but what I don't have is your patience, skill and support network to do any work myself.

Please keep posting, people do read them and they do enjoy them.

Thanks, I really do appreciate that.

Prizam said:

Maserati is on my shortlist for the next toy car. Just so lovley.

Hiya Stu, Haha, what are you running at the moment? Still got the TVR? And some random luxury barge no doubt?

0a said:

I dislike “white” cars. But that colour on that car looks fantastic. These are proper exotic things. I know a 3.0 GTV owner who has moved onto one and loves his. It’s proving cheaper to run, or so he says, as well!

Thanks Joe. As Rick alludes to, "Fuji White" is Nuvelo white by the looks of it - it doesn't appear to be any different in colour to my Dad's 156SW...

Falcon500 said:

Love the voltage gauge. Its as if they threw the numbers with some Italian flair at the general vicinity of the gauge and said its alright as long as the needle is above 10. Does not matter where above 10.

It's about as accurate as a weather vane, and entirely dependant on wind direction despite measuring voltage...

Leon R said:

Great car, looks really good in white too and props for doing all that work yourself.

Again, thank you.

[Zombie]

herbialfa said:

Good stuff mate! Kudos!

Thanks Brian.

RemyMartin81D said:

This thread is a visual version of the words 'fk that'

Kudos to owning it and doing all the work on it yourself. It's a lovely car.

5mileofdeath said:

Lovely motor mate and immensely brave!

Glad to see it passed the MOT ok..

Thanks both but I'm not sure brave is the right word. Foolish maybe...

Bright Halo said:

Very nice looking 4200
How on earth did that gearbox bolt go missing?

Incompetent and/or lazy spannering, of which there is a growing number of examples. One of which I shall post about shortly.

davebem said:

Another brilliant thread zombie, will be watching this one.

Thanks Dave.

samoht said:

Looks great in pearl white :-)

I salute your dedication and skills in fixing a semi-automatic gearbox yourself! Nice one, it seems like you have the kind of mechanical skills to make Maserati ownership work.

Yeah, hmm. well, maybe. Like the girls said, wedding dress. I am half considering setting up a wedding car hire service....

It's definitely pushing the limits of my knowledge. But Thanks anyway.

[Zombie]

RicksAlfas said:

Brilliant thread! Thanks for posting.
Good luck with the car. Looks the same colour you could get 147GTAs in.

Oh, and.... “Bueller, Bueller”

Zombie said:

I had it up on axle stands, ran it up to 60mph through the gears,

Yeah, it is.

haha.... but I decided to crack the odometer and roll it back by hand...

[Zombie]

Bringing me neatly to this weekend's job. Converting the speedo to mph, which, oddly wasn't a requirement of the test to put it on the road after it was imported from Hong Kong, nor is it an MOT fail...

I did consider leaving it as km/h only but the mental arithmetic required became tiresome and a distraction on occasion.

I thought I'd taken some pics of the car whilst I had half the dashboard apart to get the Instrument binnacle out but I can't find any... No matter. I'll be revisiting that anyway.

I did take some of the process just to document the fact I didn't do a ferris buller....

IMG_1834 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1835 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1838 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1839 by Chris, on Flickr

With that done and the dashboard reassembled, I foolishly started investigating why the casing heater isn't working.

After poking about with the inbuilt diagnostics - you turn the ignition on with the controls in the right place and buttons held down and it gives you an all OK or fault codes.... This didn't reveal anything. So I stripped all the prettifying covers off and started poking about at the coolant pipes round the back of the engine...

IMG_1833 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1843-2 by Chris, on Flickr

And I found the heater matrix pipes in the bulkhead aren't connected to anything. It's been bodged and bypassed. Who the fk does that on a Maserati?! FFS!

Basically I suspect the heater matrix is leaking - they're known for it.

Which is obviously a right PITFA to fix.

[Zombie]

ITP said:

You appear to be on a similar ownership path to me! Although I have no plans to dismantle my QP..

Vey nice, my Dad has been look at QPs recently. I don't suppose you have a 159 sport wagon as a daily workhorse as well?

[Zombie]

ITP said:

Not quite, a guilietta cloverleaf!

My 159 is a TBi....

[Zombie]

psi310398 said:

Nice car!

I have a body damaged Spyder Cambiocorsa that I need to start repairing in the spring. Everything fundamental is straight but I need to recommission it and replace several panels and the radiators etc.

OP, what repair/garage manual are you using please?

I'm not... But please let me know if you find one...