1973 Fiat 124 Sport Coupe 1800
Discussion
TL/DR: I bought a red 1970s hotbox Fiat, and I like it.
This car has been busy hi-jacking my Lancia Beta Coupe's thread, which is hardly fair given that the Beta is currently immobilised by a busted clutch.
The long lived Fiat 124 range of the mid 1960s and the 1970s included sensible square looking family saloons, a small estate car, and a Spider, which was IIRC the longest lived of the lot (and had a modern revival in 2016). The saloon range lived on into the 1980s in Polish and other central to east European guises. All but the earliest cars had variants of the famous Aurelio Lampredi four cylinder twin cam engine, as also used with a different head by Lancia, and as used in various configurations by Alfa and even Morgan. Most versions of the Fiat 124 also had five speed gearboxes to drive the rear wheels, and other modern in their day tech included disc brakes all round.
The 124 range included three series of the Sport Coupe, a two door, four seater mini GT car. The first series, a 1400, and arguably the most elegant of the three, is very 1960s (and there is one for sale on eBay right now), whilst the second series received twin headlamps and some tech upgrades. The third series, on sale from 1973 to 1975, was the fastest and most 1970s-looking of the 124 Coupes. It remains a small and pretty car, but has a more aggressive frontal design than its predecessors, and was offered as a 1600 (1592 cc) and an 1800 (1756 cc), with a single Weber downdraught carburettor.
This car would have been competing head to head with its FWD Lancia Beta cousin, to a lesser extent with the BMW 02 series, and also with the (then) cheaper to buy sporty RWD Ford Escorts, which IIRC had twin cams or crossflows, usually the (famously good) Ford four speed, and drum brakes at the back.
I like small GT cars, and I like 70s Italian stuff. I cannot now afford Alfa 105 series cars (I had a 1977 Alfa Spider once, but family politics consumed it). I have owned several Lancia Betas and currently have a good 1978 1600 one. I had missed out on buying a blue RHD Series Two 124 Coupe a few years ago, and all the others that I'd seen coming up for sale had been LHD.
A friend in the north pointed me to the advert for this RHD October 1973 Series Three 1800, and he kindly drove his lovely Porsche 944 Turbo for an hour further north to check out the Fiat. He liked it, and I trust his judgment, so after a pleasant phone call with the pleasant and honest seller, I agreed a price and found a cheerful and simply enormous Polish dude on Shiply who wagoned the car down to south Oxfordshire.
I love it! The car is a well used example, with a lot of patina verging on scruffiness in the interior, a recent ish and not especially fabulous shiny red paint job, some bubbles but no readily apparent rust horrors, and working mechanicals and electrics. It probably has done something like the 115,000 miles showing on the Veglia Borletti speedo.
The car's main issues at present are -
(1) As advertised, it doesn't idle properly, and it cuts out at junctions. It always starts easily. I may fool around with the idle screw on the carb until my mech can get a look at it.
(2) The previous owner but one fitted a set of spectacularly terrible Chinese tyres. These are dire in the dry, and sketchy as all get out in the wet. These will soon be in the bin and replaced by some Pirellis or Uniroyals.
(3) The temperature gauge needle sticks, but responds to flngernail flicking.
(4) The car has jumped out of reverse a couple of times. The forward gears are fine.
(5) The car is missing some minor bits of trim, and one quarterlight and the two rear side windows are held shut by screws because the latches are missing or not working.
The car sounds fab. It has a great 1970s rorty, naughty, sporty sense of grunty urge to it. The steering is light, the brakes are fine, and even with the rubbish tyres I can get an idea that this is a car with great handling. It is over two years since I last drove my Beta (which is on Pirellis), so right now I cannot say which is the better handling of the two, but the 1800 Fiat version of the Lampredi feels a good deal quicker than the 1600 Lancia version of the Lampredi. The Lancia is a bit plusher inside, with head rests, side bolsters, bits of wood, posher switches, posher carpets, and more instruments (nine including the clock, against the Fiat's six). The Fiat's interior is very 70s sporty, with the alloy dashboard being a bit poor man's Series Three Lamborghini Espada (but without the 100 dials and 200 switches that an Espada has).
I think that this car is a bargain. Any old two door Escort of the mid 70s would cost waaaaay more than this Fiat, but would not, in my view, be quite such a good car; but that's markets for you!
This car has been busy hi-jacking my Lancia Beta Coupe's thread, which is hardly fair given that the Beta is currently immobilised by a busted clutch.
The long lived Fiat 124 range of the mid 1960s and the 1970s included sensible square looking family saloons, a small estate car, and a Spider, which was IIRC the longest lived of the lot (and had a modern revival in 2016). The saloon range lived on into the 1980s in Polish and other central to east European guises. All but the earliest cars had variants of the famous Aurelio Lampredi four cylinder twin cam engine, as also used with a different head by Lancia, and as used in various configurations by Alfa and even Morgan. Most versions of the Fiat 124 also had five speed gearboxes to drive the rear wheels, and other modern in their day tech included disc brakes all round.
The 124 range included three series of the Sport Coupe, a two door, four seater mini GT car. The first series, a 1400, and arguably the most elegant of the three, is very 1960s (and there is one for sale on eBay right now), whilst the second series received twin headlamps and some tech upgrades. The third series, on sale from 1973 to 1975, was the fastest and most 1970s-looking of the 124 Coupes. It remains a small and pretty car, but has a more aggressive frontal design than its predecessors, and was offered as a 1600 (1592 cc) and an 1800 (1756 cc), with a single Weber downdraught carburettor.
This car would have been competing head to head with its FWD Lancia Beta cousin, to a lesser extent with the BMW 02 series, and also with the (then) cheaper to buy sporty RWD Ford Escorts, which IIRC had twin cams or crossflows, usually the (famously good) Ford four speed, and drum brakes at the back.
I like small GT cars, and I like 70s Italian stuff. I cannot now afford Alfa 105 series cars (I had a 1977 Alfa Spider once, but family politics consumed it). I have owned several Lancia Betas and currently have a good 1978 1600 one. I had missed out on buying a blue RHD Series Two 124 Coupe a few years ago, and all the others that I'd seen coming up for sale had been LHD.
A friend in the north pointed me to the advert for this RHD October 1973 Series Three 1800, and he kindly drove his lovely Porsche 944 Turbo for an hour further north to check out the Fiat. He liked it, and I trust his judgment, so after a pleasant phone call with the pleasant and honest seller, I agreed a price and found a cheerful and simply enormous Polish dude on Shiply who wagoned the car down to south Oxfordshire.
I love it! The car is a well used example, with a lot of patina verging on scruffiness in the interior, a recent ish and not especially fabulous shiny red paint job, some bubbles but no readily apparent rust horrors, and working mechanicals and electrics. It probably has done something like the 115,000 miles showing on the Veglia Borletti speedo.
The car's main issues at present are -
(1) As advertised, it doesn't idle properly, and it cuts out at junctions. It always starts easily. I may fool around with the idle screw on the carb until my mech can get a look at it.
(2) The previous owner but one fitted a set of spectacularly terrible Chinese tyres. These are dire in the dry, and sketchy as all get out in the wet. These will soon be in the bin and replaced by some Pirellis or Uniroyals.
(3) The temperature gauge needle sticks, but responds to flngernail flicking.
(4) The car has jumped out of reverse a couple of times. The forward gears are fine.
(5) The car is missing some minor bits of trim, and one quarterlight and the two rear side windows are held shut by screws because the latches are missing or not working.
The car sounds fab. It has a great 1970s rorty, naughty, sporty sense of grunty urge to it. The steering is light, the brakes are fine, and even with the rubbish tyres I can get an idea that this is a car with great handling. It is over two years since I last drove my Beta (which is on Pirellis), so right now I cannot say which is the better handling of the two, but the 1800 Fiat version of the Lampredi feels a good deal quicker than the 1600 Lancia version of the Lampredi. The Lancia is a bit plusher inside, with head rests, side bolsters, bits of wood, posher switches, posher carpets, and more instruments (nine including the clock, against the Fiat's six). The Fiat's interior is very 70s sporty, with the alloy dashboard being a bit poor man's Series Three Lamborghini Espada (but without the 100 dials and 200 switches that an Espada has).
I think that this car is a bargain. Any old two door Escort of the mid 70s would cost waaaaay more than this Fiat, but would not, in my view, be quite such a good car; but that's markets for you!
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 4th July 10:44
thouse!
gforceg said:
While googling around your new car I've just found this piece. Three faves of mine and similar cars to the poster I have in my garage from AutoItalia magazine.
https://classicandsportscar.com/features/cut-above...
Good article, thanks! I have driven a 1971 Alfa GT 1300 Junior and it was possibly the most perfectly balanced and most delightful car that I have ever driven. I have never tried a Fulvia. I like the looks of the AC (first) series of Fiat, but I rate the middle phase BC as the best looking of the three, and the end of the line CC, whilst less pretty, has the perfectly square 1600 or the grunty 1800 to enhance it. https://classicandsportscar.com/features/cut-above...
This car does have a fair chunk of boy racer to it.
This American dude is smoooooooooth, however.
You have to read the next bit in your best Ron Swanson voice.
Ron cannot officially approve, because Fiats are from Europe, and, moreover, an internal combustion propulsion unit that has fewer than eight cylinders cannot be a motor, but Ron approves.
This American dude is smoooooooooth, however.
You have to read the next bit in your best Ron Swanson voice.
Ron cannot officially approve, because Fiats are from Europe, and, moreover, an internal combustion propulsion unit that has fewer than eight cylinders cannot be a motor, but Ron approves.
With me, you can never tell, but at present I think that this Fiat and its cousin the Lancia may be keepers. Ask me again when I have got the Lancia back on the road.
I take the point about the positive qualities of the Escorts, and was not suggesting that they are bad cars. I was just commenting on how the market now regards them. Lancia Betas have steering racks, IIRC, and I suspect that, when I try the Fiat versus the Lancia, the Lancia may win on handling, but the Fiat will win on rorty tortyness..
I take the point about the positive qualities of the Escorts, and was not suggesting that they are bad cars. I was just commenting on how the market now regards them. Lancia Betas have steering racks, IIRC, and I suspect that, when I try the Fiat versus the Lancia, the Lancia may win on handling, but the Fiat will win on rorty tortyness..
Loving the adverts, thanks!
I drove the Fiat at no more than 75mph indicated along the M40 into London. I got papped a lot by passing traffic. I followed two cool dudes in a very dark blue 1967 Pagoda Merc along the Westway. They had the top down, and we both made NOISE in the Hanger Lane underpass. Then down Baker Street, through Mayfair, St James', Trafalgar Square, along the Embankment, and across Blackfriars Bridge into Southwark, to meet Mrs BV and take a cab for a late lunch at The Ivy.
At traffic lights on the way in I treated the car as though it was all modern and eco. I switched it off because it does not idle reliably. Keeping it running using my foot to hold 1800 RPM at one set of lights induced banter when I complimented a bloke on his Kawasaki Monster and he complimented the car, and wondered if all the noise meant that I wanted a race.
London pics. That Armagnac is from 1962. So am I. Care to guess which has aged better?
I drove the Fiat at no more than 75mph indicated along the M40 into London. I got papped a lot by passing traffic. I followed two cool dudes in a very dark blue 1967 Pagoda Merc along the Westway. They had the top down, and we both made NOISE in the Hanger Lane underpass. Then down Baker Street, through Mayfair, St James', Trafalgar Square, along the Embankment, and across Blackfriars Bridge into Southwark, to meet Mrs BV and take a cab for a late lunch at The Ivy.
At traffic lights on the way in I treated the car as though it was all modern and eco. I switched it off because it does not idle reliably. Keeping it running using my foot to hold 1800 RPM at one set of lights induced banter when I complimented a bloke on his Kawasaki Monster and he complimented the car, and wondered if all the noise meant that I wanted a race.
London pics. That Armagnac is from 1962. So am I. Care to guess which has aged better?
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 4th July 20:05
Lowtimer said:
I did indeed like it and am very glad to see it properly embarned and scheduled for sympathetic improvement.
Many thanks again, Lowtimer, you very fine bloke. Your assessment of the car was very accurate based on what I have learned of it so far, but I would expert nothing less from a bloke of most excellent car knowage such as yourself. That Fiat 124 Sport badge in front of the gearstick is covering the place where what must have been a period or ish stereo with one central speaker used to be. I shall try to get something similar in there, as I do not want to put holes in the door cards.
The driving position in this car is a bit Italian gorilla, but not as much as it is in an Alfa, and the proximity of the gear stick to the steering wheel is great. The seats are comfortable, although they lack the lateral bolstering that the Lancia seats have, and the Fiat seats have Jack all lumbar support. They are also low backed and therefore Whiplash City Arizona, but the period headrests that you can get for them (the ones that sit over the top of the seat and are held in place by your back) are rather ugly.
The visibility all round is great. The heater and fan work. The demisters work. The lights work. The wipers work on intermittent, slow, and slightly less slow. The instrument lighting dimmer works, but only slightly. The dipped beams at night are meh, but the main beams are OK. The indicators self cancel some of the time, and some of the time they don't. The car has an after market starter button hidden underneath the steering wheel. There is one mysterious DO NOT PRESS THIS BUTTON button above the hand throttle. It says Made in England on it, but it does not say Kenlowe, or anything like that. It seems to be inop.
The oil is clean and bright. The car runs very cool on open roads, It sat in the middle of the gauge in moving London traffic, and started to get a tad hot when I hit some jams (not helped, I suspect, by a bit of unwilling hooligan revving to avoid cutting out), but the needle dropped quickly back to the middle when I gave the heater a blast on full fan.
I said that the brakes are fine, but it occurred to me today that they are maybe a tad soft. The local garagiste, who runs a modern MOT shop but likes an old car, says that he will charge me trade price to get the car up in the air and give it a fake MOT test that will help to generate a to do list for my mobile mech to deal with.
I have started a conversation with an eBay seller who has lots of BC and CC trim to sell. Some, not all, of the BC trim fits the CC.
The car already has a handbook and a workshop book. I have as I always do ordered from eBay 70s stylee key rings, period brochures, and am looking for some suitable mats, but there seem not to be any.
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 5th July 07:45
Crikey. Someone with big muscles has tightened the caps on the clutch and brake fluid reservoirs [EDIT: front and rear brake fluid reservoirs - the clutch is a cable rig]. I cannot get the blooming things off. They are not translucent, or at least not in garage forecourt lighting, so I cannot determine the fluid levels without getting the lids off. I will have to try with some grips. The tool kit that I have in the car is from a Series Two Jag XJ6. It usually lives in my Landy. I was going to grab the Lancia's OE toolkit but the Lancia is boxed in by barn trash. Anyway, pliers but no grips in quite posh XJ6 toolkit.
There appears to be an electric fan in the Fiat, so maybe the mystery switch is for that, but I am not sure that it is connected. The fan is not a Kenlowe as far as I can see in dim light. I cannot see a dial to set its on/off point in the engine bay, which some heaps have.
There appears to be an electric fan in the Fiat, so maybe the mystery switch is for that, but I am not sure that it is connected. The fan is not a Kenlowe as far as I can see in dim light. I cannot see a dial to set its on/off point in the engine bay, which some heaps have.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 7th July 06:39
Given a free choice I would have a blue one with a tan interior - to get the mini Ferrari thing. But these cars appear to be very rare in RHD, so grab and go!
My friend Lowtimer very sensibly declines to buy red cars, because they always crash, obvs, and if I had his resolve I would adopt his sensible policy, but in reality I am weak, and have had a red Triumph Vitesse (crashed it - minimal damage), a red Alfa Spider (let it fall to bits parked in sea air outside a dry garage, because reasons), a red Beta HPE (blew up its engine), and now this red Fiat (will be careful).
Anyway, the expected booze, blue lights, and broken glass armageddon of London's first night of PUB since March did not materialise in Southwark, and the little red Fiat has not been broken into or set on fire overnight.
My friend Lowtimer very sensibly declines to buy red cars, because they always crash, obvs, and if I had his resolve I would adopt his sensible policy, but in reality I am weak, and have had a red Triumph Vitesse (crashed it - minimal damage), a red Alfa Spider (let it fall to bits parked in sea air outside a dry garage, because reasons), a red Beta HPE (blew up its engine), and now this red Fiat (will be careful).
Anyway, the expected booze, blue lights, and broken glass armageddon of London's first night of PUB since March did not materialise in Southwark, and the little red Fiat has not been broken into or set on fire overnight.
Red red red:
I had for a fun year a 500 quid red 1990 Range Rover, which I sold for 500 quid after it failed its MOT for rust. No crashes, but it got me a speeding ticket.
Later I got given for free an early noughties BMW 540i, and that was maroony red. I did not crash it, but I did get LOADZA speeding tickets in it (yes, I know, I know) , so I chopped it in for a 2004 X Type Jag 3.0 estate found on a back lot in Luton, which is green and therefore non crashy or speedy tickety, and is now sat outside my wife's London flat with transmission fluid leaking all over the road.
I add that IF I can ever afford a Ferrari or a Maserati (this will never happen), it will be a blue one or a silver one. I LUST for the plum coloured Series Three Lamborghini Espada that is on for 125K at the moment, but the Lottery Gods do not favour me.
Lowtimer, we should have got another bloke in and syndicate-purchased that blue over tan Ferrari 456 that was on sale a month or two ago, but hey ho.
I had for a fun year a 500 quid red 1990 Range Rover, which I sold for 500 quid after it failed its MOT for rust. No crashes, but it got me a speeding ticket.
Later I got given for free an early noughties BMW 540i, and that was maroony red. I did not crash it, but I did get LOADZA speeding tickets in it (yes, I know, I know) , so I chopped it in for a 2004 X Type Jag 3.0 estate found on a back lot in Luton, which is green and therefore non crashy or speedy tickety, and is now sat outside my wife's London flat with transmission fluid leaking all over the road.
I add that IF I can ever afford a Ferrari or a Maserati (this will never happen), it will be a blue one or a silver one. I LUST for the plum coloured Series Three Lamborghini Espada that is on for 125K at the moment, but the Lottery Gods do not favour me.
Lowtimer, we should have got another bloke in and syndicate-purchased that blue over tan Ferrari 456 that was on sale a month or two ago, but hey ho.
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 5th July 09:29
AW111 said:
Breadvan72 said:
Now we need a high-angle shot of the FIAT and the MR2 - I'm betting the MR2 is wider but about the same length.The Mad Monk said:
Breadvan72 said:
Hot water good tip, but I wonder if spilling screenwash while refilling the tub last night has made the chirpy horn stop working this morning.
The Fiat is parked up in St James Square while I prowl around Soho looking for hot haircut action.
Wrong reaction I know, but not the cheapest place in the world to get a haircut?The Fiat is parked up in St James Square while I prowl around Soho looking for hot haircut action.
Piece in the Money section of today's Telegraph about Nicky Clarke(spelling?). He charges £650 to new customers for a haircut - I think that would be women, not men? He has got about 10 properties around Paddington - not really surprising!
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