Interesting 'Alzen Car'
Discussion
I seem to remember this car or at least some chat about its provenance on PCCB? Maybe ive confused it with another 964 but seem to remember it at GT Classics.
http://www.rpmtechnik.co.uk/sales/vehicle/alzen-96...
http://www.rpmtechnik.co.uk/sales/vehicle/alzen-96...
berty37 said:
yes I remember that car too. I think it was at specialist cars for a while as the owner was flogging a 964 RS through them too - it was up at GT classics in mid 2014 for £90k and sold - was a topic of debate on the Porsche Club GB forum I remember as the provenance was not 100% - maybe bits of the jigsaw have been filled in - RPM have a great reputation.
That's it good memory Sir! Although I don't remember it selling. Be a stack of fun I think Slippydiff said:
Was owned by Des Sturdee.
It's done the rounds, having been at SVP, GT Classics and somewhere else too IIRC ? I understood it was a spare shell Alzen had left over from their 964 Cup car racing campaign, and that they built it into this car. I suspect (rightly or wrongly) it's true provenance isn't known (though it most likely is an ex-Alzen car).
Hmmm this is starting to ring some bells. Im pretty sure the PCGB thread went on for some time and the owner only had what he claimed to be some old racing pics of a blue Alzen car but zero documentation, maybe these have been uncovered as RPM don't sell rubbishIt's done the rounds, having been at SVP, GT Classics and somewhere else too IIRC ? I understood it was a spare shell Alzen had left over from their 964 Cup car racing campaign, and that they built it into this car. I suspect (rightly or wrongly) it's true provenance isn't known (though it most likely is an ex-Alzen car).
carreraboy said:
Hi Mustang .... the car sold originally for about £35K when a very very good 964RS lightweight was making the same or a nice Cup Car making £25-£30k .. so not sure what point you are making. There has been a huge rise in the market over the last four years. Wish I had kept all the Air Cooled 911, over 40 owned since I was 18 I am now a young 58. I will happily keep the car if it does not sell, it wants for nothing, especially with a complete file now. The car has been invited to attend an invitational prestige German Porsche event in the summer. From people who kmow their stuff and have helped me.
If you are a serious buyer speak to Greg at RPM .... unfortunately it's a 2016 market price or dare I say priced very keen and realistic.
Hi carreraboy. Not making any point in particular just remembered the car at 52ish k in PH's for sale some while back. As I say I very much like the car although at over 100k id like something more substantial to support a cars history. As previously mentioned I remember the PCGB thread where its history was just speculation.If you are a serious buyer speak to Greg at RPM .... unfortunately it's a 2016 market price or dare I say priced very keen and realistic.
Anyhow I love it, good luck with the sale
berty37 said:
I am confused now too. I thought you sold the car in 2014???
from PCGB
'SOLD'
This was a car starring any serious and I mean serious buyer in the face for the last couple of months, and bought by someone who actually understands the car and looks further than their nose and realises the massive potential and fabulous buy it is ...
Did you realise your mistake and buy it back in the meantime?
Berty, have you anymore forum posts on this car?from PCGB
'SOLD'
This was a car starring any serious and I mean serious buyer in the face for the last couple of months, and bought by someone who actually understands the car and looks further than their nose and realises the massive potential and fabulous buy it is ...
Did you realise your mistake and buy it back in the meantime?
bigunit00 said:
Thanks for the link. This comment I think is interesting-Have you managed to trace your shell number to an original cup car yet Des?
Still mystified why my contact told me these cars were built from the spare shells at the end of the season rather than the race cars which he told me were in collections in Germany (along with the famous green cup car that so many people claim to own).
Impressed with your detective work so far Des.
But this latest car has neither a Porsche NOR Alzen chassis number??? How is it registered then?
Cheers
Rick
majordad said:
I wonder if the same happened to the Alzen car as happened to my 993 Cup RSR ?
Mine started life as a 993 Cup in Germany. After an accident it was sold to a Berlin based Race team called Chzranoswki who reshelled it into a new factory supplied cup shell from Porsche. That shell has the six digit production number on the rear parcel shelf but no Vin number. There is an ID number stamped on the front right suspension turret , put there by the race team. AFAIK to get a cup shell from Porsche you had to first have a cup car to trade, and Porsche did'nt always take them back.
For many years, and even from birth, the 964 in RS form was unloved, see Peter Morgan's uncomplimentary road test of one in Porsche Post and slightly out of date race cars were the same.
So does this make it a Bitza? Mine started life as a 993 Cup in Germany. After an accident it was sold to a Berlin based Race team called Chzranoswki who reshelled it into a new factory supplied cup shell from Porsche. That shell has the six digit production number on the rear parcel shelf but no Vin number. There is an ID number stamped on the front right suspension turret , put there by the race team. AFAIK to get a cup shell from Porsche you had to first have a cup car to trade, and Porsche did'nt always take them back.
For many years, and even from birth, the 964 in RS form was unloved, see Peter Morgan's uncomplimentary road test of one in Porsche Post and slightly out of date race cars were the same.
majordad said:
It sure does ! Shortly after I bought it the engine lost power, so I had a new one built from a 964 casing, then the gear box and so on. It's life, it's Porsche, it's racing , the way things were and are. But one thing is certain, this year mine will begin it's 11th year of racing with me, and it had a further 8 years before that in Germany. Many of us use them !
Well played you, these cars should see 'action'. So the RPM car is a Bitza but by the sounds of it if used properly that's no bad thing. Glad we got to the bottom of itEdited by majordad on Wednesday 23 March 13:04
Double gauche said:
So in conclusion the cars a bitsa but built by a chap with a famous name
As for values - it was for sale at 75 k, 6 months ago.....
Ah yes 75k makes sense. Owners looking for quite a profit and uplift in value. As for values - it was for sale at 75 k, 6 months ago.....
At the classified price id buy something original personally but then in another 6 months this car will be up for 175 anyhow. Still love the look of it though
berty37 said:
I just get very slightly wary when an outfit with the reputation as RPM use words like 'Allegedly' and 'proposing'. I note none of this is used and no lengthy essay on the description is felt necessary on the car at JZM.
When you want someone to part with £140k of their hard earned for a non matching car then best of luck the evidence I have seen is that this car has been at several places each time another £20k or so is added and the 'file' gets added to or more complete. It is actually more likely the car would of had a 3.8 RSR motor stuck in it anyway. I am sure this is a great drive but to me the question what it is purporting to be is still entirely subjective.
Yes understandably with a car like this, and their reputation, RPM are protecting themselves in the advert. When you want someone to part with £140k of their hard earned for a non matching car then best of luck the evidence I have seen is that this car has been at several places each time another £20k or so is added and the 'file' gets added to or more complete. It is actually more likely the car would of had a 3.8 RSR motor stuck in it anyway. I am sure this is a great drive but to me the question what it is purporting to be is still entirely subjective.
Edited by berty37 on Thursday 24th March 11:00
carreraboy said:
RPM have an excellent reputation .... They have ALL the paperwork which some prolific posters here seem a little afraid to inquire and then make their own uninformed opinions ..... They are selling the car as exactly what it is .... in my opinion understated. If some can't comprehend this I am sorry.
You seem to be avoiding Berty37's posts Carreraboy. Any reason for this?bigunit00 said:
I am not sure I understand the motives of some people on this thread. Ultimately it's the sellers right to ask what he wants for the car. If he finds a buyer great. If not it's likely too expensive and will need to adjust the price. Like buying a house or before accepting a job you need to do your OWN due diligence. Why cast doubt on the car? What does that achieve? How would you feel if it was your car for sale? Seems to be a lot of people bent out of shape about current classic Porsche pricing. Either put up and buy one or shut up and buy something else
No motive intended as far as i can see. The owner had resisted answering Bertys initial questions which casts doubts to a potential buyer which seems odd.Either answer all the questions on here that's asked or as you say 'shut up'.......simples
carreraboy said:
Which question would that be? So sorry no intention to avoid any flack bring IT ON Mustangs, the question I'm avoiding is..... ?
Ohhh a tad feisty, few beers maybe ? Let's start with this one-
I am confused now too. I thought you sold the car in 2014???
from PCGB
'SOLD'
This was a car starring any serious and I mean serious buyer in the face for the last couple of months, and bought by someone who actually understands the car and looks further than their nose and realises the massive potential and fabulous buy it is ...
Did you realise your mistake and buy it back in the meantime?
Edited by Mustangs on Friday 25th March 09:42
Nice post Carreraboy and thanks for all the detail ( unlike Hunter66) it certainly adds to the appeal of the car for a prospective buyer. Good to clear up Bertys question too as it sat unanswered for a few days which can make people sceptical as I'm sure you can understand especially when a car like this takes some explaining.
Anyhow RPM are a good bunch as you know so good luck with the sale
Anyhow RPM are a good bunch as you know so good luck with the sale
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