996 GT3, 997 GT3, Cayman GT4
Discussion
I'm thinking of a change... My budget can probably cover a 996 GT3, a 997GT3 or a GT4. I'm looking for a sharp fun road car, occasional track. I previously had a 996GT3 RS. I'd go straight back there if I had the budget.
Which of the above offers the best road driving experience and what else should I be thinking of?
Cheers
Bert
Which of the above offers the best road driving experience and what else should I be thinking of?
Cheers
Bert
Wow, great feedback so far and a lot to take in. No time to do that now, but I'll read over the weekend and respond.
One thing I did do was to have a better look at prices and found both the GT4 and 997 GT3 to be possibly over my budget range. I have wondered for a while how close you could get a 'standard' 996 to be like a GT3 in feel, pointyness and balance (probably not at all worried about outright speed for use on the road).
The Hartech rebuild that 911V have might make a good starting point.
All food for thought and thanks for the brilliant info.
Bert
One thing I did do was to have a better look at prices and found both the GT4 and 997 GT3 to be possibly over my budget range. I have wondered for a while how close you could get a 'standard' 996 to be like a GT3 in feel, pointyness and balance (probably not at all worried about outright speed for use on the road).
The Hartech rebuild that 911V have might make a good starting point.
All food for thought and thanks for the brilliant info.
Bert
lemmingjames said:
Id imagine £40k inc base car purchase to turn it into a GT3-lite, but then theres the 200k mile GT3 up for auction that had a engine rebuild 28k miles ago. But youd need to be quick as not sure when the auction is
7th July 
Although I'm not really in a position to change that quickly sadly.
I'm pretty sure that car will sell quite well as there is a lot of interest in a 'bargain'!
I think I've decided that I am budget constrained, so wouldn't be able to go for a GT4 or 997 GT3 anyway. It's a long while since I had the RS, so my memory will be hazy. So I'm probably going to keep a watching eye on the 996 GT3s out there.
Dan911 said:
Have you driven one v your 996RS?
Porsche911R said:
nice vid showing how a 911 is being driven at 103% to get pole.
https://youtu.be/t10yzkVNgxc
Do you have a link to a 996 GT3 driving on 'pole' pace by any chance? The 2.0 SWB race car has got very different grip and power characteristics.https://youtu.be/t10yzkVNgxc
Cheers
Bert
Well it's developed into an interesting thread. 911R's comments are getting more and more polarised with his 'corner entry is everything' mantra which is most amusing. But hey, I'm merely a crap clubbie racer, what do I know? Well obviously you cant do a fast corner without a great entry so getting to the apex is key. But you can't do a fast corner without a good exit and getting a good exit is the whole point.
Well of course it's the whole point of fast laps which I am wholly interesting in..... when I am testing, qualifying and racing my single seater.
When I'm driving cross country or even doing a track day in a 911, I really don't care about how fast the lap is. What I care about is how much fun I'm having.
Anyway, it's a brilliant thread so far, very much enjoying it. But I suspect I'll go really dull and get a 996 GT3.
Bert
Well of course it's the whole point of fast laps which I am wholly interesting in..... when I am testing, qualifying and racing my single seater.
When I'm driving cross country or even doing a track day in a 911, I really don't care about how fast the lap is. What I care about is how much fun I'm having.
Anyway, it's a brilliant thread so far, very much enjoying it. But I suspect I'll go really dull and get a 996 GT3.
Mitch911 said:
In fact, buy the red one already mentioned and you are well on the way.
I think I missed this with all the talk of Lewis and Fernando! Which one?Bert
Porsche911R said:
BertBert said:
But you can't do a fast corner without a good exit and getting a good exit is the whole point.
Bert
Good exit won't happen if you are 20mph off the apex speed on the wrong line !!Bert
https://youtu.be/_FlCyb3Vs0o
watch from 9.30 how the entry is so far wrong he is totally screwed. basic driver error.
I picked the much loved 996 GT3 cup car ;-)
Regarding the entry to La Source, why are you so pejorative about it? The "proper" entry line seems to be well occupied to me with other cars. He could either try an inside line, queue up behind the car on the outside line or run into the back of him. In traffic the ideal line is often compromised. Watching some recent Radical racing at Spa, quite a few people took a similar line in traffic and made the move stick.
He got quite good speed to Eau Rouge alongside the car to his left (that had gone really wide on the exit of La S) and just in front of him, but got the door shut in Eau Rouge and had to completely lift off. Then really slow along the Kemmel #obvs. That seems to me to have everything to do with race craft and nothing to do with the ideal entry line to corners.
Interesting to watch, thanks for posting!
Bert
m33ufo said:
Might be mine...unless I missed another red one?
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
I've decided it's time to stop beating around the bush and buy an RS.
It's nice, is it in Cardiff? For viewing, not nicking purposes!https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
I've decided it's time to stop beating around the bush and buy an RS.
Porsche911R said:
If you want to learn the fastest way round a track he is the only person to watch, the pole record holder.
time and time again he gets a pole lap, you have to ask yourself why Bottas cannot do it .
no good watching 16th place or club sport drivers if you want to learn how to be faster.
I stated watch Alonso he has a slow car but some how can over take faster cars, that's a master class of race craft and staying on the fastest line into the bend to get the fastest speed out of the bend forcing a car to cover the inside line now off the fastest line.
I am giving up now, giving away too many trade secrets :-p
But dude, clearly the key part to fast laps is the corners and the key to corners is the entry. Noone in their right mind is going to argue that the entry doesn't matter. Just stop going on about it as if you have some incredible inside knowledge.time and time again he gets a pole lap, you have to ask yourself why Bottas cannot do it .
no good watching 16th place or club sport drivers if you want to learn how to be faster.
I stated watch Alonso he has a slow car but some how can over take faster cars, that's a master class of race craft and staying on the fastest line into the bend to get the fastest speed out of the bend forcing a car to cover the inside line now off the fastest line.
I am giving up now, giving away too many trade secrets :-p
But all this claptrap about watching Hamilton to learn how to drive faster? But then not Bottas? What kind of s
te is that? Firstly it's pretty fkign impossible to drive a faster lap in your own race car by watching the coverage of an F1 driver. Secondly if you've learnt so much from Ham and have nothing to learn from Bot, what aren't you Ham's team mate?By the way are you sure that it was the poor entry to La Source that slowed the GT3 driver rather than the great big f
k off lift going up the hill? With powers of observation like that, you aren't going to learn much from watching Lewis!Careful with those trade secrets
Bert
Steve Rance said:
Hi Bert
As Digga says there isnt much that separates the 996MK2 GT3 and 997GT3 comfort and Clubsports. The 996 MK1 Comfort and Clubbie had more differences which included a LWF and Battery isolator in the cabin. The 996RS got the LWF but the 997Gen 2 and 997CS didnt. If I were you i'd just buy on condition and spec. Many 996 comforts have been converted to buckets and had cages fitted. If you are tracking these will be expensive to add if the car doesn't already have them. Other than that, Floating front discs and decent dampers - prefereably rebuildable - would be a nice bonus. A lot of cars have these upgrades already fitted. Other mods may be nice but not as essential. There tends to be less modified 997's than 996's about by comparison so you may be obliged to go for a Clubsport as it may be an easier and cheaper starting point than modifying a comfort model. I can't qualify this but I suspect that the 997 market will be less accepting of a modified car when you come to re sell it - if you are the type of chap who runs around with his head on fire at the thought of values - which I suspect that you are not.
When you have an inspection, a leakdown test will tell you more than a rev range readout which I wouldnt worry too much about unless it has 1000's of range 2 cycles. The engines are good for 10,000 rpm. If the leak test comes in lower than 3% per cylinder - which it probably will - you should be fine.
Thanks Steve, makes sense. I definitely agree that it doesn't really matter .1 or .2 Just a case of the condition and the specific spec. I'm not that fussed about values, but I do try not to buy cars with big depreciation in them. So all safe there in a 6GT3. I'm also happy with mods other than where the mods are specifically aimed at track use (which a lot are) to the detriment of road use. I do like buckets, but don't like full cages for the road, happy with a half cage.As Digga says there isnt much that separates the 996MK2 GT3 and 997GT3 comfort and Clubsports. The 996 MK1 Comfort and Clubbie had more differences which included a LWF and Battery isolator in the cabin. The 996RS got the LWF but the 997Gen 2 and 997CS didnt. If I were you i'd just buy on condition and spec. Many 996 comforts have been converted to buckets and had cages fitted. If you are tracking these will be expensive to add if the car doesn't already have them. Other than that, Floating front discs and decent dampers - prefereably rebuildable - would be a nice bonus. A lot of cars have these upgrades already fitted. Other mods may be nice but not as essential. There tends to be less modified 997's than 996's about by comparison so you may be obliged to go for a Clubsport as it may be an easier and cheaper starting point than modifying a comfort model. I can't qualify this but I suspect that the 997 market will be less accepting of a modified car when you come to re sell it - if you are the type of chap who runs around with his head on fire at the thought of values - which I suspect that you are not.
When you have an inspection, a leakdown test will tell you more than a rev range readout which I wouldnt worry too much about unless it has 1000's of range 2 cycles. The engines are good for 10,000 rpm. If the leak test comes in lower than 3% per cylinder - which it probably will - you should be fine.
It sounds to me like i have completely fallen back into my comfort zone...The 996 GT3
So I've just been on a ramble through the 996GT3s on the PH classified. On face value it seems a bit mystifying. Prices range from 58k to 84k without much rhyme or reason on the face of it. I probably need to look in more detail, but what are the things that drive a high price in a 996GT3? Or even a low price come to that?
I'm not ready to press the button yet as I have a car to sell, but thought it worth an investigation.
Bert
I'm not ready to press the button yet as I have a car to sell, but thought it worth an investigation.
Bert
m33ufo said:
Hi G....as you know, I was motivated to sell so priced my car at the bottom of the market purely for that reason. Substantially it's price which sells a car although I think mine had the right bits, was the right colour and I think was in damn good shape.
Very best of luck.
Thanks Mark, your car looks great, just a shame the timing wasn't right for me!Very best of luck.
Now to the inevitable question in these circumstances...(and no it's not about depreciation/appreciation/investment )
Who is the best at inspections of these cars these days? Someone who can really get into the detail and find worn out components, knows what wears and what doesn't?
When I was on the trail 10 years ago, I used Andy Fearn and we rejected loads of GT3s. In the end I upped my budget and got a 2,500 mile RS that was virtually brand new!
Bert
)Who is the best at inspections of these cars these days? Someone who can really get into the detail and find worn out components, knows what wears and what doesn't?
When I was on the trail 10 years ago, I used Andy Fearn and we rejected loads of GT3s. In the end I upped my budget and got a 2,500 mile RS that was virtually brand new!
Bert
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