Cars not selling?
Discussion
I have been watching the 993 market for a few months now and it seems like there are a lot of cars out there that are just not selling.
Some cars have been sat for months with no price drop.
Some cars have had their prices adjusted downwards.
Some cars have been flagged as sold on one site then re-advertised on another a couple of weeks later.
There are some dealers that have even INCREASED the prices of cars that are not selling!
Has anyone else noticed this with other Pork?
Some cars have been sat for months with no price drop.
Some cars have had their prices adjusted downwards.
Some cars have been flagged as sold on one site then re-advertised on another a couple of weeks later.
There are some dealers that have even INCREASED the prices of cars that are not selling!
Has anyone else noticed this with other Pork?
nickpan said:
993 Carrera 2 and 4 ‘s are only worth they £40-£50k price tag private sellers are asking if they’ve “invested” the rise in value in addressing the weak spots on the car; scuttles, chassis legs, worn suspension components etc
Buying an average example 5 years ago with a fully stamped book and keeping up with the stamps isn’t enough to justify a £20k premium today.
I turned away 3 “meticulously maintained” examples before I purchased mine. The sellers were deluded.
Yep that's what I am finding. Buying an average example 5 years ago with a fully stamped book and keeping up with the stamps isn’t enough to justify a £20k premium today.
I turned away 3 “meticulously maintained” examples before I purchased mine. The sellers were deluded.
One of my opening lines when contacting sellers is:
What work have you done outside of the normal servicing requirements during the time you have owned the car?
Most dont even bother to reply!
When buying cars, I like to get the details of a given car for sale and ring round the dealers pretending to own it to get an idea on bid prices. None of them want to buy outright and if they do the bids are rock bottom. Independent dealers just want SOR cars so they can make a quick buck on them and kick em down the road.
stichill99 said:
I was lucky to buy my 993 before the rise in prices we have seen between 2013/14 and present day but I have spent a fair wedge in upkeep in the last 5 years. Now I am usually the first to say a car is overpriced but I think if you are hoping to see nice 993's back in 20's I think you will be waiting a long time.
When I was at Moffat classic car show in the summer we were standing at a friends mk2 RS2000 when a bloke just came up and offered him £28000 which was taken. I have never really followed many prices but when I now look at what you need to spend on some rather ordinary cars I think 993's look like a bargain. I also suspect there are never going to be an abundance of manual cars on the market and I suspect the majority of owners didn't buy it on the never never and wouldn't panic sell if the classic car boom turns to bust.
I'm not looking to buy a 993 under £30K, I know that ship has sailed a LONG time ago.When I was at Moffat classic car show in the summer we were standing at a friends mk2 RS2000 when a bloke just came up and offered him £28000 which was taken. I have never really followed many prices but when I now look at what you need to spend on some rather ordinary cars I think 993's look like a bargain. I also suspect there are never going to be an abundance of manual cars on the market and I suspect the majority of owners didn't buy it on the never never and wouldn't panic sell if the classic car boom turns to bust.
It's just that when I'm looking at spending £40 to £50K on a 23 year old car, I expect to see some receipts other than the yearly MOT.
D.no said:
It does seem odd though that market forces (cars not selling) are not seemingly influencing prices greatly at the moment. Perhaps I'm under-estimating the amount of latency in the car market.
It's very strange as there are some cars (both air cooled and water cooled) that have been on sale for a long time. What I find truly perplexing is the fact I was offered a 993 at £55k and I turned it down. That exact same car has had its price increased by £12,000 in the space of a few weeks.
D.no said:
That's just perverse unless it's had over £12k spent on it in the interim. It seems to be at complete odds to the emerging market sentiment. I'd love to hear the vendors reasoning...
I have an email from them from early August and they offered the car to me at £55,000 I turned the car down for various reasons and then in the first week of September they increased the price to a fiver shy of £68,000 I asked them what work they had done on the car since our last chat and they didn't respond. I called them a few times only to find they were 'away from their desk' each time. I dont know what point they were trying to prove to me. It just seems like a very odd way to do business and it smacks of dishonesty.
You will never see the likes of JZM and 911V etc doing this sort of thing. You may see them lower their prices slightly to expedite a quick sale for their clients but generally they buy good cars at the right price and sell them accordingly. Indeed, most of the 993's currently for sale would probably not be taken into stock by the high quality independents.
You will never see the likes of JZM and 911V etc doing this sort of thing. You may see them lower their prices slightly to expedite a quick sale for their clients but generally they buy good cars at the right price and sell them accordingly. Indeed, most of the 993's currently for sale would probably not be taken into stock by the high quality independents.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
It does not matter one bit, it's all about condition condition condition.The problem is, the cars are priced according to mileage and a low mileage 'mint' car for ££££k could be in a worse shape than a 200k miler daily driver.
The owner of the 200k car knows that its a peach and if they decide to sell it, it will probably be valued at less than £30k so they keep it.
The owner of the low mileage 'mint' car who has done nothing to the car since they bought it and all the rubbers are perished and rust has taken hold sticks it up for sale and the car is priced as a collectible.
Its crazy.
IMI A said:
The idea the price has been put up to make it more of quality trophy type car just doesn't stack up. The best cars command the highest prices. Putting the price up on an average car its still an average car. Just a more expensive average car.
Jacking the price up is just basically dishonest. I contacted the dealer initially as there was no information on the car, just the price of 55. Like most dealer adverts, there is no real detail on what work has been done on the cars or what preventative measures have been taken, if any. I'm in no rush to buy as the summer is more or less over. I'm certainly not going to buy a 'trophy' car as I want to modify it and drive the pants off it. The problem for me is separating the good ones from the bad, I have already spent a fair amount on inspections on cars that turned out to be dogs.
I just wish people were more honest in their descriptions but I guess everyone thinks their own car is better than the next.
I'm slowly beginning to realise I may just have to buy one that's already done. The one at RPM looks amazing but buying a 'done' car is nowhere near as much fun as taking that journey yourself.
v8ksn said:
I'm slowly beginning to realise I may just have to buy one that's already done. The one at RPM looks amazing
but buying a 'done' car is nowhere near as much fun as taking that journey yourself.
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.IMI A said:
Maybe look at other marques too. Alfa 4C is something I can't help checking out in the classifieds. Very different but I think they're super cool. I'd love one of these one day! Very moddable too!!!
4C? The turbo 4 pot engine and flappy paddle gearbox mean its a non-starter for me. Now if you said the Alfa GTA ........
POORCARDEALER said:
The market is softening big time, only the very very best will stay up in the clouds, auction houses sale rates have dropped dramatically which is a usual indication of "market adjustment"...people are realising and ringing around trying to sell, I have been offered more air colled porsche in the last 3 months than the whole of last year, both dealer and private.
Some adjustment isnt all bad news, more enthusuasts will be able to re enter the market, cars should sell more easily due to lower buying prices allowing more buyers.
Not a bad time to be sat with a pocket full of cash
Market softening is the feeling I am getting too but that has not been based on any factual evidence, just my feeling from looking at cars for sale and the length of time they have been for sale.Some adjustment isnt all bad news, more enthusuasts will be able to re enter the market, cars should sell more easily due to lower buying prices allowing more buyers.
Not a bad time to be sat with a pocket full of cash
I have noticed it with property too, nothing really seems to be moving. My wife and I were considering moving house at the beginning of last year and then due to various reasons, we decided against it. Since then, we have seen the price of the house we were looking at reduced by the owners twice.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
https://hiltonandmoss.com/whats-happening-classic-...article said:
But the question that people really want the answer to is not what has happened in the past, but what will happen in the future. One of the question we are regularly asked is – “When will the bubble burst?”
Well, we don’t believe it will, but we do expect to see a slow down in the rise of market values. Our belief is driven by the answers our customers give to the following questions – Why, How, and What? Why? Prior to the last price crash in the classic car market in the mid-nineties, buyers were acquiring exotic classics as investment only purchases, to sit in their garages for sale at a later date. Dealers were guilty of driving prices up which only made the hungry investors, flush with the economic prosperity of the eighties, more excited about the values – in effect, there was a feeding frenzy.
Well, we don’t believe it will, but we do expect to see a slow down in the rise of market values. Our belief is driven by the answers our customers give to the following questions – Why, How, and What? Why? Prior to the last price crash in the classic car market in the mid-nineties, buyers were acquiring exotic classics as investment only purchases, to sit in their garages for sale at a later date. Dealers were guilty of driving prices up which only made the hungry investors, flush with the economic prosperity of the eighties, more excited about the values – in effect, there was a feeding frenzy.
Edited by v8ksn on Sunday 16th September 13:02
Cheib said:
When the car market turns it goes wrong big time. I'd expect a 30 to 50% correction. Last winter trade bids for air cooled cars weren't exactly punchy from what I understand.
This market has come so far you could easily see cars losing 30 to 50% of their value. Something like say a 993 Carrera S....which would currently be valued at say £70k. I reckon you could easily see those cars under £50k.
IF that happens, I guess the owners would just keep their cars instead. This market has come so far you could easily see cars losing 30 to 50% of their value. Something like say a 993 Carrera S....which would currently be valued at say £70k. I reckon you could easily see those cars under £50k.
jimmy p said:
I think this is a very pessimistic thread.
Car sales tend to dry up at the back end of summer. Certainly threads like this aren't going to help the market or less your intention is to try and further slow it so that cars become more affordable, fair enough for buyers but not nice for owners.
I don't think this thread will have any affect whatsoever on the market in general. I started this thread because I don't think there is much movement with 993's in general. They don't seem to be selling and I was wondering why that may be and whether anyone else had noticed a slow down with other cars. Car sales tend to dry up at the back end of summer. Certainly threads like this aren't going to help the market or less your intention is to try and further slow it so that cars become more affordable, fair enough for buyers but not nice for owners.
I am looking to spend a lot of money and right now I am not convinced it's a good time to spend it.......on anything!
Robbo66 said:
Steve Rance said:
Talk of bubbles bursting is very simplistic. Market conditions change and it obviously effects prices within it. Some changes are longer term that others. A lot of people are sitting on their hands right now and I can see why.
Either way, This forum really is becoming an increasingly boring place to be.
Is anyone actually interested in driving their cars anymore rather than sitting in their counting houses adding up thier values or polishing them
Moderators, can we please have a separate ‘Values’ section within the Porsche forum?
It is, totally boring, I'm sick to death of it too. However, many have serious amounts of debt or cash tied up here, so 'boring' as it may well be, it's very relevant/topical at present. Hence why we have so many threads surrounding the subject. Either way, This forum really is becoming an increasingly boring place to be.
Is anyone actually interested in driving their cars anymore rather than sitting in their counting houses adding up thier values or polishing them
Moderators, can we please have a separate ‘Values’ section within the Porsche forum?
Unfortunately, if a 'values' thread were placed in a separate area, I would suggest it would be a far more active area, than the odd driving thread we see pop up on here.
The 'driving threads' tend to be consigned to far smaller private forums like PGT or S9, Facebook or Whatsapp groups now. Sign of the times I'm afraid.
Values threads are very boring as nobody likes talking about prices and speculating what something will be (was) worth but it affects everyone. On this forum you have a full range of people and budgets. There are people seeking advice on buying poverty pork and at the other end there are people asking which latest GT trinket will retain the most value. in between these two extremes you have the average Porsche nut who loves the cars, loves driving them but does not want to lose their shirt on buying the wrong one or at the wrong time.
woollyjoe said:
- If you buy to make money - you will be part of the problem, sorry. That's my opinion.
So the price adjustment / softening, whatever *is* happening now is amazing... I want to get rid of the buyers and sellers trying to over commercialise a passion.
... Passion over greed please.
So the price adjustment / softening, whatever *is* happening now is amazing... I want to get rid of the buyers and sellers trying to over commercialise a passion.
... Passion over greed please.
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