Steering wheel (non)alignment and increased camber levels?
Discussion
When my GT4 was last at my OPC it had an alignment check and I think at that point the steering wheel ended up off-centre. I didn't bother doing anything about it as I was taking it elsewhere for a couple of modifications and a full geo in the near future and assumed it would be sorted at that point.
That work has now been done and I'm running -2.5 degrees of negative camber on the front but the steering wheel is still slightly off centre, even though I asked for it to be centred as part of the geo work. I took it back there on Monday for a tweak but I've been told the wheel can't be adjusted any more as it will trigger a steering wheel position sensor fault. I've asked if adjusting the tie rods and re-aligning the toe will fix it but they've said it's a result of the aggressive camber setting rather than the geometry of the car. They've had the same problem on a GT3RS previously too.
Has anyone else come across this? Or should front toe adjustment fix it and I need to get them to re-do it?
Cheers for any advice.
That work has now been done and I'm running -2.5 degrees of negative camber on the front but the steering wheel is still slightly off centre, even though I asked for it to be centred as part of the geo work. I took it back there on Monday for a tweak but I've been told the wheel can't be adjusted any more as it will trigger a steering wheel position sensor fault. I've asked if adjusting the tie rods and re-aligning the toe will fix it but they've said it's a result of the aggressive camber setting rather than the geometry of the car. They've had the same problem on a GT3RS previously too.
Has anyone else come across this? Or should front toe adjustment fix it and I need to get them to re-do it?
Cheers for any advice.
Thanks all. The OPC initially got the wheel off-centre and didn't mention it, so sloppy work on their part for sure - as we've come to expect from OPC geos.
The geo place I'm using didn't realise they hadn't fixed the problem as it's very slight so it's unfair to say they should have noticed it. You only realise it's off a tiny amount when you go out for a run on a straight and flat road. You can't really tell on a workshop ramp.
I'm waiting for my geo place to get back to me otherwise I have another local geo place that I've been thinking about checking out for a little while so I may just take it there to see if they can sort it.
The geo place I'm using didn't realise they hadn't fixed the problem as it's very slight so it's unfair to say they should have noticed it. You only realise it's off a tiny amount when you go out for a run on a straight and flat road. You can't really tell on a workshop ramp.
I'm waiting for my geo place to get back to me otherwise I have another local geo place that I've been thinking about checking out for a little while so I may just take it there to see if they can sort it.
I agree, I think the tie rods need tweaking. I think because it was just off centre they tried re-calibrating the steering wheel TDC electronically as a simpler fix but it didn't go far enough. This was to avoid re-doing the front geo I suspect but that's what's going to have to happen.
r1flyguy1 said:
Ive had the steering wheel not straight issue after an OPC geo, then had Cup2’s fitted and a GEO by a very highly regarded GEO company, even after that the steering wheel sits left side low, I mentioned it after the road test following their work and they assured me it was straight!!!
When driving along the road with the marker TDC the car steers to the right slightly!
Maybe they just cant be bothered to do the job properly or my head is not on straight
That's exactly the issue I have - I am wondering if my eyes have gone all When driving along the road with the marker TDC the car steers to the right slightly!
Maybe they just cant be bothered to do the job properly or my head is not on straight
OK, so a quick update on my car's steering wheel alignment.
I was at my geo place this morning for around an hour or so and the toe front and rear was completely re-done from scratch with the wheel re-centred as the first step. Unfortunately it doesn't really seem to have helped, the wheel marker is still around 1/2 inch to the left when on a flat road going straight ahead.
I've spoken to them after arriving home and it's going to get booked in again for a few hours for another full geo reset but this time I'm going to jump in and out of the car at various points to check that the wheel is centred dead straight to my eyes to begin with, same once the geo's been re-done, take it out for a test drive with one of the guys there etc etc.
So no fix as yet, but they're going to get it sorted.
I was at my geo place this morning for around an hour or so and the toe front and rear was completely re-done from scratch with the wheel re-centred as the first step. Unfortunately it doesn't really seem to have helped, the wheel marker is still around 1/2 inch to the left when on a flat road going straight ahead.
I've spoken to them after arriving home and it's going to get booked in again for a few hours for another full geo reset but this time I'm going to jump in and out of the car at various points to check that the wheel is centred dead straight to my eyes to begin with, same once the geo's been re-done, take it out for a test drive with one of the guys there etc etc.
So no fix as yet, but they're going to get it sorted.
Yeah, it's weird for sure!
The car seems to track OK, although it does pull to the left a touch at times if I let go of the wheel. I'm assuming this is just the car following the camber of the road but I suppose it may be something else Hopefully the next attempt to fix it will throw up something if there's anything wrong.
The car seems to track OK, although it does pull to the left a touch at times if I let go of the wheel. I'm assuming this is just the car following the camber of the road but I suppose it may be something else Hopefully the next attempt to fix it will throw up something if there's anything wrong.
Twinfan said:
Tripe Bypass said:
When the wheel is centred, is there an identical number of turns before you hit the lockstops? If not, the racks not centred.
Good question, I'll have to check it...Some sort of parts tolerance issue then? Is it a case of re-calibrating the steering wheel sensor as far right as it will go without triggering any warning lights and living with it?
churchie2856 said:
Just read back earlier in the thread and you state that with the yellow steering wheel marker TDC on a flat straight road the car goes right. So I assume therfore on a straight cambered road (with the car on the left) with the wheel again TDC, the car drives straight (the subtle "right" bias compensating for the pull due to road camber). Is that the case?
No, it's not the case. The car still goes left, just not quite as much.Das speck said:
Have they tried rotating both tie rods in the same direction to center the rack? - it’s quite a common adjustment and independent to the geo of the car.
I don't think so, I'll mention it next time I speak to them. Thanks!Thinking some more about this, and chatting to one of the guys at my geo place, we're wondering if the steering wheel was taken off the car the last time it was at my OPC. While it was there it had a small warranty job done which involved lifting the carpets closest to the central tunnel on the driver's side so the wheel may have been removed for access and/or to protect it.
Looking at this video of a 991 steering wheel removal it's fairly finely splined, so one tooth may well be enough to give the wheel position that I've got. I'll be annoyed if that's the case though as there's clearly a mark on both the column and the wheel to line everything up correctly (see around 3min 40secs in the video):
https://youtu.be/R5niDXjES9I?t=221
Here's what I think is the problem graphically:
[a] |----------0----------| = Steering wheel marker TDC at the true centre of the rack (equal turns each side)
[b] |-----------0---------| = My current scenario, the steering wheel marker is TDC slightly to the right of true centre of the rack (slightly more turns to the left than the right)
The car has then been geo'd with the steering wheel marker TDC but actually that means it's slightly off-centre to the rack. When driving, I think the rear is spot on and is pushing the car along dead straight. I'm assuming there's some sort of self-centering effect on the steeering wheel though where it wants to sit in the middle of the rack, something to do with the EPAS perhaps? So the wheel moves to position [a] above, the marker ends up slightly to the left and the car in effect looks like this:
\---0---\
|
|
|
|---0---|
When driving straight ahead I think the front tyres are scrubbing and actually pointing slightly left, hence the drift to the left if I lift my hands off the wheel.
That's my theory at least, and I think I need to have the airbag and steering column bolt removed to check the markers on both the steering wheel and the steering column to see if they're perfectly aligned...
Looking at this video of a 991 steering wheel removal it's fairly finely splined, so one tooth may well be enough to give the wheel position that I've got. I'll be annoyed if that's the case though as there's clearly a mark on both the column and the wheel to line everything up correctly (see around 3min 40secs in the video):
https://youtu.be/R5niDXjES9I?t=221
Here's what I think is the problem graphically:
[a] |----------0----------| = Steering wheel marker TDC at the true centre of the rack (equal turns each side)
[b] |-----------0---------| = My current scenario, the steering wheel marker is TDC slightly to the right of true centre of the rack (slightly more turns to the left than the right)
The car has then been geo'd with the steering wheel marker TDC but actually that means it's slightly off-centre to the rack. When driving, I think the rear is spot on and is pushing the car along dead straight. I'm assuming there's some sort of self-centering effect on the steeering wheel though where it wants to sit in the middle of the rack, something to do with the EPAS perhaps? So the wheel moves to position [a] above, the marker ends up slightly to the left and the car in effect looks like this:
\---0---\
|
|
|
|---0---|
When driving straight ahead I think the front tyres are scrubbing and actually pointing slightly left, hence the drift to the left if I lift my hands off the wheel.
That's my theory at least, and I think I need to have the airbag and steering column bolt removed to check the markers on both the steering wheel and the steering column to see if they're perfectly aligned...
TDT said:
That should be seen in the geo print out for steer ahead then?
With steer ahead (front) and thrust angle (rear) from the rear both being 0° at the same time for the car to track straight with steering straight on a flat road.
Post your latest sheet please.
This is the latest geo reading I have, from a week or so ago. It's been adjusted since but to the same specs and looks OK to me? With steer ahead (front) and thrust angle (rear) from the rear both being 0° at the same time for the car to track straight with steering straight on a flat road.
Post your latest sheet please.
Das speck said:
The caster of the strut makes the wheel self centre. Think shopping trolly.
Imagine in your drawing the rack is a threaded rod and your wheel is a nut. - what happens if you turn the threaded rod?
Yep, I get you. I'm just wondering why the car doesn't go straight ahead with the marker at TDC given the geo print I posted above for TDT. Something else seems to be going on Imagine in your drawing the rack is a threaded rod and your wheel is a nut. - what happens if you turn the threaded rod?
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