Are 997 gen 1 / gen 2s over priced?
Discussion
Just curious to hear peoples thoughts on 997.1 and 997.2 prices?
Does anything think the 997s are way overpriced? Or are people actually buying at the those prices.
For reference most 997 gens seem to be £25k minimum if not £30k for quite a high miler, some even £35k for a low miler - considering the engine issues on these… do you think prices are a bit silly, or is their genuine demand at that price? A 10k engine rebuild would make it more expensive than a gen 2 if and more likely when needed.
997.2 more understandable but a decent low miler is £40k range… which I guess is fair considering a lot more reliable and desirable.
Does anything think the 997s are way overpriced? Or are people actually buying at the those prices.
For reference most 997 gens seem to be £25k minimum if not £30k for quite a high miler, some even £35k for a low miler - considering the engine issues on these… do you think prices are a bit silly, or is their genuine demand at that price? A 10k engine rebuild would make it more expensive than a gen 2 if and more likely when needed.
997.2 more understandable but a decent low miler is £40k range… which I guess is fair considering a lot more reliable and desirable.
Yeh not really looking at 987s. Only 997 and upwards. Just surprised 997.1 so high considering all the potential pitfalls and issues.
997.2 - there was an immaculate 80k miler that sold for £33k - not too long back, but just found the price tag a little too high for 80k miler. But I guess people paying it, so who am I to say it’s overvalued.
997.1 would make a fantastic project car though if they £20k was the ceiling for a well looked after car.
997.2 - there was an immaculate 80k miler that sold for £33k - not too long back, but just found the price tag a little too high for 80k miler. But I guess people paying it, so who am I to say it’s overvalued.
997.1 would make a fantastic project car though if they £20k was the ceiling for a well looked after car.
esotericar said:
Depends on what angle you're coming from. Compared to a wheezy old air-cooled needing a tonne of work, they're still very cheap. Adjusted for inflation, they also haven't really gone up much, especially now that at least some of the post pandemic gains have reversed.
Think the only cars that really make them look a bit pricey are closely related 987 models. You can get a really nice 987.1 3.2 Box for less than half the money of a 997.1. That makes the 997 look very poor value. Or a rock solid 987.2 3.4 for similar money to a 997.1, maybe even a bit less. Likewise, an extra £15k for a base 997.2 3.6 over a 987.2 3.4 isn't a great value proposition.
But then if it's a 911 you want for whatever reason, not a Cayster, well, it doesn't really matter what a 987 goes for, you're not going to be buying one. Compared to nearly all other 911s, 997s remain excellent value.
Think the only cars that really make them look a bit pricey are closely related 987 models. You can get a really nice 987.1 3.2 Box for less than half the money of a 997.1. That makes the 997 look very poor value. Or a rock solid 987.2 3.4 for similar money to a 997.1, maybe even a bit less. Likewise, an extra £15k for a base 997.2 3.6 over a 987.2 3.4 isn't a great value proposition.
But then if it's a 911 you want for whatever reason, not a Cayster, well, it doesn't really matter what a 987 goes for, you're not going to be buying one. Compared to nearly all other 911s, 997s remain excellent value.
Yeh well thats exactly my dilemma. Currently in a low mileage M2 - but looking to buy a more traditional coupe (vs M2 which is more a 2 door saloon coupe).
I'm more or less set on getting a C4 or C4s (only because of the wide body). S or not - I'm not too fussed. and Gen 1 vs Gen 2 - naturally would love to get a gen 2 - but that requires a substantial budget upgrade which is not do-able for me at mo anyway.
So as things stand I'm in the mindset find a well priced gen 1 C4/C4S - as long as it has full history - I'm willing to completely to ignore mechanical condition - as the aim would be to get a Hartech re-build and refresh the car to something completely new.
£30k total doable - and I know it's unrealistic - but if I could find a £10-15k 997 (with bore scoring issues etc) and high miles - means I can open around £15-20k get car to how it probably should have come out of Porsche factory.
Almost in a similar vibe to the RPM Technick 997 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANmQyLI70-g).
Its a big investment for me - as I love the M2 - but just lacks that feel of car wrapping around yourself or traditional coupes.
I'm more or less set on getting a C4 or C4s (only because of the wide body). S or not - I'm not too fussed. and Gen 1 vs Gen 2 - naturally would love to get a gen 2 - but that requires a substantial budget upgrade which is not do-able for me at mo anyway.
So as things stand I'm in the mindset find a well priced gen 1 C4/C4S - as long as it has full history - I'm willing to completely to ignore mechanical condition - as the aim would be to get a Hartech re-build and refresh the car to something completely new.
£30k total doable - and I know it's unrealistic - but if I could find a £10-15k 997 (with bore scoring issues etc) and high miles - means I can open around £15-20k get car to how it probably should have come out of Porsche factory.
Almost in a similar vibe to the RPM Technick 997 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANmQyLI70-g).
Its a big investment for me - as I love the M2 - but just lacks that feel of car wrapping around yourself or traditional coupes.
g7jhp said:
A 997.1 C2S will always have more potential to fail than a 997.2, but that does allow people to get into one at a lower cost.
At £20k+ even if you need a new engine at £10k it's still a £30k carm
Entry into a 997.2 C2S for £36k+ for 80k miles will still run a risk.
Main point would be buy on condition as there's plenty of other items to eat budget.
A well cared for 997.1 C2S with higher miles at a lower price maybe the best buy.
At £20k+ even if you need a new engine at £10k it's still a £30k carm
Entry into a 997.2 C2S for £36k+ for 80k miles will still run a risk.
Main point would be buy on condition as there's plenty of other items to eat budget.
A well cared for 997.1 C2S with higher miles at a lower price maybe the best buy.
Yeh to be honest I prefer the rear lights of Gen 2 (but it might just be subconsciously knowing its the later version)
stuckmojo said:
I agree with that logic.
I think the 997.1 design is more cohesive and purposeful, as if the 997.2 is a restyling that "had" to happen.
Perhaps not the stupidest idea to buy a £20k 997, sort it and be ready for a Hartech rebuild when the time comes. This is in the context of a keeper.
Mind you, I used the same logic with my then £8,750 996 10 years ago - which I still have
I think the 997.1 design is more cohesive and purposeful, as if the 997.2 is a restyling that "had" to happen.
Perhaps not the stupidest idea to buy a £20k 997, sort it and be ready for a Hartech rebuild when the time comes. This is in the context of a keeper.
Mind you, I used the same logic with my then £8,750 996 10 years ago - which I still have
I like to have the full history of the car for the sake of future provenance.
Like everything - for the more documentation something has - the more valuable something is.
Like everything - for the more documentation something has - the more valuable something is.
stuckmojo said:
why would you care about service history - as long as the car is straight - if you want to rebuild it? You'd be replacing all the wear and tear and service bits anyway?
lol - What Car does value it at that price - And I think them being a car magazine thats probably been around longer than you and I - is probably something worth listening to. Whether you agree or not - thats something else, and as you've said - you won't consider it - which is fine by me.
STiG911 said:
Ah. So you're the comedian who emailed me over the weekend offering me £15K for my 997 and making it sound like you'd be doing me a favour, 'because What Car says that's what it's worth'
You're funny. Not.
You're funny. Not.
AyBee said:
I've been watching the 997.1 market for a while and whilst I feel like it's toppy, but then cars still seem to be selling, so I must be in the minority. There seems to be a huge range of pricing though, everything from non-rebuilt cars at £18k, to Hartech'd cars at £25k to non-Hartech'd at £40k+.
Yeh I mean Hartech rebuild at £25k I'd say is a great deal.But a non-rebuild car at even £20k I personally think is defo not worth it unless its a low mileage / low number of owners.
I know a fair few people will disagree - each to their own.
Yeh just wanted to get a feel for what people think - seems a lot of different opinions.
yeh there's a really good one selling from AMS - they did the rebuild themselves with Hartech parts. £26k - seems fair but would have preferred if the rebuild was done by Hartech themselves - (not to detract from AMS reputation - they seem like a decent outfit.)
FilH said:
Been watching the prices for a bit, mainly .1 C2S . And they are all over the place.
Some have been forsale for a long time.
Some people are bonkers with the prices tho , the silver on on AT with evidence of bore scoring hence discounted price at 22k. Tho it was serviced 100miles ago ( like thats important! )
I do like the 21k car on AT with the brown leather ( might not be to everyones taste? ) But 1 owner, fsh and notes rms and other bits being replaced.
Then you have others at 30k that im guessing are really nice or the owners aren't too fussed at selling just yet.
Some have been forsale for a long time.
Some people are bonkers with the prices tho , the silver on on AT with evidence of bore scoring hence discounted price at 22k. Tho it was serviced 100miles ago ( like thats important! )
I do like the 21k car on AT with the brown leather ( might not be to everyones taste? ) But 1 owner, fsh and notes rms and other bits being replaced.
Then you have others at 30k that im guessing are really nice or the owners aren't too fussed at selling just yet.
Daston said:
I paid £40k for our Gen 2 S manual, getting one with the manual box and not PDK was a challenge plus the start of 2021 the prices were high. I am the 2nd owner of the car and it's just done 60k miles so I don't think it was a crazy price to pay especially as the dealer threw a new clutch in and aircon condensors.
Yeh to be honest I completely believe the gen 2 prices are worth the money - my issue I guess is with gen 1 prices. There's an immaculate gen 2 up for sale for £40k - and I think it's absolutely worth it. But thats something thats properly sorted - vs gen 1s with all the very very expensive pitfalls
Yeh I think the thing that bugs me is the bore scoring on gen 1 - I really don't know if it's just the internet blowing up the issue - or it genuinely is an issue that will eventually happen.
There's a video I watched saying the most cold climate 997 gen1s have bore scoring issue - where as hot climate 997 have literally no issue (from the an American Porsche specialist).
So considering we're in Uk - I'm a bit more wary of the whole bore scoring thing.
I get all cars have theirs quirks and issues - but when its the engine literally blowing up (or wearing itself down) when the whole point of a Porsche is performance driving - thats when I'm a bit wary.
I think the thing with gen 1 at £35k - I see it being way way overpriced - as several high mileage (80k milers) gen 2's have sold for £32-33k at auctions.
And a few more k - I'd be in a lowish mileage gen 2.
There's a video I watched saying the most cold climate 997 gen1s have bore scoring issue - where as hot climate 997 have literally no issue (from the an American Porsche specialist).
So considering we're in Uk - I'm a bit more wary of the whole bore scoring thing.
I get all cars have theirs quirks and issues - but when its the engine literally blowing up (or wearing itself down) when the whole point of a Porsche is performance driving - thats when I'm a bit wary.
I think the thing with gen 1 at £35k - I see it being way way overpriced - as several high mileage (80k milers) gen 2's have sold for £32-33k at auctions.
And a few more k - I'd be in a lowish mileage gen 2.
Tobermory said:
I think you have take the price of the car, add on a rebuild and then see what else you could get for the money.
In my car that would make about £35k which would get you an immaculate sorts car with the perfect balance of power, use ability (rear seats) and possibly the best iteration of 911 steering that they made.
What else could you buy for that price?
R8- no rear seats, arguably not as engaging
360’s at least £10k more, 2 seats only and almost certainly higher running costs
Evora - possibly but more fragile
I8 - maybe but again not as engaging and complex to service
NSX- 2 seats and getting expensive now
So no, I don’t think 997’s are overpriced at all, just misunderstood
In my car that would make about £35k which would get you an immaculate sorts car with the perfect balance of power, use ability (rear seats) and possibly the best iteration of 911 steering that they made.
What else could you buy for that price?
R8- no rear seats, arguably not as engaging
360’s at least £10k more, 2 seats only and almost certainly higher running costs
Evora - possibly but more fragile
I8 - maybe but again not as engaging and complex to service
NSX- 2 seats and getting expensive now
So no, I don’t think 997’s are overpriced at all, just misunderstood
Its more the fact that lets say I got an immaculate gen 1. The bore scoring - which is most likely to happen at some point - will be £10k for Hartech (full rebuild obviously).
So that essentially becomes a 35k car - for a gen 1...
Just had another look and Portiacraft are selling a 50k miler gen 2 at £39k - so thats why I feel gen 1's are way overpriced.
there's a even a high mileage 991 for £39k.
Anyway just think anyone wants to seriously sell their gen 1s then in my opinion I just think £25k is way too much for a car without a rebuild.
So that essentially becomes a 35k car - for a gen 1...
Just had another look and Portiacraft are selling a 50k miler gen 2 at £39k - so thats why I feel gen 1's are way overpriced.
there's a even a high mileage 991 for £39k.
Anyway just think anyone wants to seriously sell their gen 1s then in my opinion I just think £25k is way too much for a car without a rebuild.
Tobermory said:
If an immaculate gen 2 is worth 40k why isn’t an immaculate gen 1 at 25k even better value?
You got plenty to cover the cost of a rebuild but it’s not definitely going to need one and they sound great.
You got plenty to cover the cost of a rebuild but it’s not definitely going to need one and they sound great.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?sort=price...
991 - at £39k (100k miler)
so if we say £5-10k premium for each generation.
991 - I might be wrong - but also pretty darn reliable
997.2 - has relatively no issues
997.1 - has major issues that eventually occur (so unless we're looking at a rebuilt engine - £25k is very pricey for a non rebuild)
Anyway just my opinion. I guess I just gotta wait til prices drop or cough up the premium for a gen 2.
991 - at £39k (100k miler)
so if we say £5-10k premium for each generation.
991 - I might be wrong - but also pretty darn reliable
997.2 - has relatively no issues
997.1 - has major issues that eventually occur (so unless we're looking at a rebuilt engine - £25k is very pricey for a non rebuild)
Anyway just my opinion. I guess I just gotta wait til prices drop or cough up the premium for a gen 2.
yeh look totally - I don't have an issue with rebuilt cars priced around 25k - 27k
Me personally - just wanted get peoples opinion on non-rebuilt cars people at what I felt was overpriced. Thats all - but clearly I'm in the wrong - feels like 70% of you guys think they are fairly priced.
Fair enough.
Budget isn't an issue - and I'm not trying to get the price on 997.1s down (obviously I'd want the best deal - who wouldn't).
Reason why I questioned gen 2 vs gen 1 prices is a rebuild takes the price more or less up to a gen 2 price - and just wanted peoples take on whether that makes sense. And you guys think it does. I stand corrected.
Me personally - just wanted get peoples opinion on non-rebuilt cars people at what I felt was overpriced. Thats all - but clearly I'm in the wrong - feels like 70% of you guys think they are fairly priced.
Fair enough.
Budget isn't an issue - and I'm not trying to get the price on 997.1s down (obviously I'd want the best deal - who wouldn't).
Reason why I questioned gen 2 vs gen 1 prices is a rebuild takes the price more or less up to a gen 2 price - and just wanted peoples take on whether that makes sense. And you guys think it does. I stand corrected.
braddo said:
If the OP is serious about actually buying a car and not making dreamer offers this 4S looks right up his street:
£27k https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14066138
yeh this decent - but isn't OPC just Porsche? Like a like for like rebuild instead of the upgraded nikasel piston linings etc?£27k https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14066138
No point in buying a rebuild if its still the same engine parts as original 997.
Anyway there's Hartech 997 for £26k fully rebuilt - all new pistons etc.
Be interesting to see what this goes for…
Usually they bids head high a few hours before close of auction.
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2006-porsche-9...
Usually they bids head high a few hours before close of auction.
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2006-porsche-9...
Yeh defo, would have preferred a gen 2 but budget won’t allow. And some ways kinda a good thing, means I can make a more unique build with a gen 1, knowing I’ve got potential big expenses.
Tobermory said:
I did 300 miles in mine in appalling weather going to a conference, I can’t think of many sports cars that would have been so sure footed in those conditions.
Whichever version you end up getting, provided you go in with your eyes open you won’t be disappointed.
Whichever version you end up getting, provided you go in with your eyes open you won’t be disappointed.
Edited by Tobermory on Thursday 17th November 23:06
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