Tuscan opinions
Discussion
I'm completely uninitiated with TVR as a brand - never even sat in one. I am however considering putting a fun car back on the driveway. Saw this locally
https://www.usedcarsni.com/2002-TVR-Tuscan-4-0-Spe...
I'm vaguely aware of chassis and engine issues but this one looks cheap (and rough inside), how badly is it likely to bite financially?
Tell me it's a terrible idea!
https://www.usedcarsni.com/2002-TVR-Tuscan-4-0-Spe...
I'm vaguely aware of chassis and engine issues but this one looks cheap (and rough inside), how badly is it likely to bite financially?
Tell me it's a terrible idea!
Phil_D said:
If you want a drive in one to compare and contrast I’m based just outside Belfast. Have a number of TVR’s including a Tuscan (mk2 s)
Flipping yes please!! A look around or a passenger ride would be more than generous 
Will try fire you an email or suchlike, think I encountered your Cerbera thread on RMS whilst browsing
Edited by Fattyfat on Wednesday 12th April 22:25
Had a look at the car from my original post today - a brief 20 minute look non the less. What an impressive looking thing, a lot of wow factor for the uninitiated!
According to the sales guy, and I was straight up honest that I was primarily tyre kicking today, the car was taken as a trade in some time ago and they've been happy for it to sit in the showroom among a few other toys they have in stock. It's now time for it to go but I reckon it's had little or no use since 2019. I guess Covid etc wiped 2 years and its rarity in these parts explain the down time.
I've no frame of reference as of yet but the bodywork looked good and better than I expected given the mileage. Wheels have been refinished and wear matching Michelins. The interior could benefit from a new carpet set (sun bleached and some wear) the seats have had a combination of repair and re-upholstering. Difficult to tell about the chassis but there is mention of outriggers being done quite recently. Dealer was happy, if i give them a little notice, to pop it on the lift for my own through inspection.
They kindly sent me the service history via email and the car certainly has had money spent. Loads of servicing, rebuilt engine to factory spec and new clutch at 29K, although that's 17 years ago. Valve clearances done 2k ago, new brakes all round 8k ago. Loads of other bits and pieces invoiced as well from a specialist over here
What now? Well the price is firm as they state they're now below cost and it's been made clear its a buyer beware sale so some cahoonies required on my part. I know we can argue the legality of that but I see their point of view. My budget would be pretty much maxed at 20k which would leave no immediate slush fund for issues.
I'm going to take Phil up on his very kind offer of a look at his Tuscan S and that'll give me a baseline to work from. I can then go for a proper look armed with some more knowledge. Admittedly the Speed Six lump is my primary concern
Bottom of the market car with a few miles but good history, would a nice Chim 'fit' me better and be less troublesome, sound better? A few have mentioned it'd likely be fine for occasional use but i'd like a commuter for the better weather, something that can do a roadtrip or 3 and handle the occasional burst from the right foot.
Worst of all, the missus thinks it looks awesome
According to the sales guy, and I was straight up honest that I was primarily tyre kicking today, the car was taken as a trade in some time ago and they've been happy for it to sit in the showroom among a few other toys they have in stock. It's now time for it to go but I reckon it's had little or no use since 2019. I guess Covid etc wiped 2 years and its rarity in these parts explain the down time.
I've no frame of reference as of yet but the bodywork looked good and better than I expected given the mileage. Wheels have been refinished and wear matching Michelins. The interior could benefit from a new carpet set (sun bleached and some wear) the seats have had a combination of repair and re-upholstering. Difficult to tell about the chassis but there is mention of outriggers being done quite recently. Dealer was happy, if i give them a little notice, to pop it on the lift for my own through inspection.
They kindly sent me the service history via email and the car certainly has had money spent. Loads of servicing, rebuilt engine to factory spec and new clutch at 29K, although that's 17 years ago. Valve clearances done 2k ago, new brakes all round 8k ago. Loads of other bits and pieces invoiced as well from a specialist over here
What now? Well the price is firm as they state they're now below cost and it's been made clear its a buyer beware sale so some cahoonies required on my part. I know we can argue the legality of that but I see their point of view. My budget would be pretty much maxed at 20k which would leave no immediate slush fund for issues.
I'm going to take Phil up on his very kind offer of a look at his Tuscan S and that'll give me a baseline to work from. I can then go for a proper look armed with some more knowledge. Admittedly the Speed Six lump is my primary concern
Bottom of the market car with a few miles but good history, would a nice Chim 'fit' me better and be less troublesome, sound better? A few have mentioned it'd likely be fine for occasional use but i'd like a commuter for the better weather, something that can do a roadtrip or 3 and handle the occasional burst from the right foot.
Worst of all, the missus thinks it looks awesome
s6boy said:
The dealer sounds straight if they're willing to get it on ramps for you and the feedback seems quite in depth. Body and paint look good in the pictures.
It seems a good indication the owner has spent money where it's needed if there are matching Michelin PS4s all round. Not a guarantee but they could have gone for much cheaper tyres.
As others have said the interior doesn't look too shabby and if the carpets have faded it'll give you an excuse to change the colour
A few questions for the dealer:
If it has been sitting around such a long time why was it MOTd last November?
If the tappets have been done then who by? If they have the experience to do that job plus balance the throttles there's a chance they know the cars history, I can't think there are too many places over there that would do it. If the owner has brought it over here then another good indication it's been well looked after.
For some wriggle room you could either ask for a little off the asking price or get them to fix the drivers window. Shouldn't be too big a job to do if you're ok with the spanners as long as the guide is in decent condition.
As you've had a generous offer to see another owners car, I reckon it would be worth having him along to hear the car start from cold, and then come out on a road test if allowed. Definitely worth a good pub lunch
I hope all works out as it seems to have more positives going for it.
To answer a few of the previous posts - It seems a good indication the owner has spent money where it's needed if there are matching Michelin PS4s all round. Not a guarantee but they could have gone for much cheaper tyres.
As others have said the interior doesn't look too shabby and if the carpets have faded it'll give you an excuse to change the colour
A few questions for the dealer:
If it has been sitting around such a long time why was it MOTd last November?
If the tappets have been done then who by? If they have the experience to do that job plus balance the throttles there's a chance they know the cars history, I can't think there are too many places over there that would do it. If the owner has brought it over here then another good indication it's been well looked after.
For some wriggle room you could either ask for a little off the asking price or get them to fix the drivers window. Shouldn't be too big a job to do if you're ok with the spanners as long as the guide is in decent condition.
As you've had a generous offer to see another owners car, I reckon it would be worth having him along to hear the car start from cold, and then come out on a road test if allowed. Definitely worth a good pub lunch
I hope all works out as it seems to have more positives going for it.
Bearing in mind, in NI at least, there was MOT exemptions during covid and unfortunately MOT history checking isn't as comprehensive as it is on the mainland, don't list advisories for a start. I reckon the dealer took the car in sometime in late 2019, just months before the proverbial hit the fan. We have a pass in late 2018 at 66K, then a couple of fails, I guess the dealer did some remedial work during that time, I'm sure they'll be happy to clarify when I view again next week. It passed in Nov 22. Car was serviced at that time too and had a new radiator in Dec.
Previous work is all from a specialist called Torqueflyte but I believe they've wound the TVR side of things up. Obviously I'll need to figure that out as if the car would have to travel annually to England for anything above routine servicing that would be a serious ballache. Cars don't scare me but there's enough folklore around the speed six that, well you know...
Hopefully Phil_D can guide me on that when I chat to him next week, Don't know the fella (yet) but I'll owe him lunch either way
I think the photos are older as the car is cleaner than I expected, Really should have taken a few pics. Electrics not yet tested so I can't comment on that drivers side window.
I may well take a chance on this car, decide increase my budget or look at the Chimaera as was my original line of attack. 4 star classics have a Crystal Topaz example that caught my eye, might not be much better than the one I'm viewing though!
Couple of questions for anyone still reading lol
1. Weather proofness - If I do buy, this might have to live outside some of the time and our weather is kinda wet. Do these leak as badly as I'm expecting?
2. Fuel - I'm guessing 97ron or better only? If i got caught out do they dislike 95 ron? Is E10 a problem? I'm guessing 15mpg is probably good going?
3. Storage - I've a garage which is full of 'things' Anyone use an outdoor carcoon? Otherwise I'll be begging the MIL to use her garage
4. Performance - Anything modern you'd compare it too?
Cheers, FF
PrinceRupert said:
Honestly, this sounds like a bad idea. These cars don't like to sit, so buying one that's been sitting, from someone that knows little about them, with no comeback and no money to sort anything sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
Even if nothing goes wrong immediately, you'll still expect a chunky bill at its next service, if you stick it into a specialist and intend to take a no expenses spared approach to maintenance. It will inevitably needs things attending to. My recent major service was 1.7k and that was with nothing major - the service itself, a boot lock, a couple of hoses, a couple of engine mounts, few other bits and pieces. That's on a well looked after car that had a major service two years before and a minor service the year before.
I'd buy a cheaper Chimaera and keep a few grand for inevitable issues that need sorting myself.
There's money but the bank manager AKA 'er indoors' might get pissy if I suddenly had to spend 5 or 6k sorting issues. Couple of grand a year maintenance isn't terrible, all things considered.Even if nothing goes wrong immediately, you'll still expect a chunky bill at its next service, if you stick it into a specialist and intend to take a no expenses spared approach to maintenance. It will inevitably needs things attending to. My recent major service was 1.7k and that was with nothing major - the service itself, a boot lock, a couple of hoses, a couple of engine mounts, few other bits and pieces. That's on a well looked after car that had a major service two years before and a minor service the year before.
I'd buy a cheaper Chimaera and keep a few grand for inevitable issues that need sorting myself.
This is merely an exercise on a car that is local, Chim is still on the radar truth be told, as is some other more conventional options.
Cheers, FF
TrotCanterGallopCharge said:
Ask the garage how much they'd want to warranty it (min 6 months, preferably a year), that might give you an idea of how risky they think it is, & budget to set aside?
Speak to Powers about rebuild costs in worst case as well.
Was made pretty clear that I'm the warranty. That is a separate discussion but entirely understandable IMHO. I'd guess if I was after complete piece of mind it'd be a car from somewhere like Str8six etc.Speak to Powers about rebuild costs in worst case as well.
Sure these things are all part of the journey, haven't even driven a TVR - might hate it lol!!
PrinceRupert said:
Yeah I've read the same that the early factory rebuilds weren't necessarily great, often using the same poor quality components that caused the failures in the first place.
There is a heated debate amongst owners whether a rebuild is important or not, many say that if it was going to fail it would have failed by now, at least if it has been driven much since the rebuild which this one has.
I know when I bought mine, I wanted to buy one with a Str8Six / Powers rebuild ...
The past few days have been educational to say the least. This rebuild was done in 2005 and the car has had valve clearances and chain tensioning checked multiple times since - last done 2k miles ago or in 2019. I haven't found anything online concrete about Smolensky era rebuilds. Will see what next week brings. Ultimately 20K is a fair wad for me and there's lots on the market (not necessarily Tuscans) so I'm actually keeping my head screwed on for a change.There is a heated debate amongst owners whether a rebuild is important or not, many say that if it was going to fail it would have failed by now, at least if it has been driven much since the rebuild which this one has.
I know when I bought mine, I wanted to buy one with a Str8Six / Powers rebuild ...
Cheers, FF
Basil Brush said:
Did you say the factory rebuild was done in 2005? If so the component issues had been fairly well sorted out by then compared to the earlier factory rebuilds pre mid 2002. Has it had a clutch since the rebuild, as over 30k miles per clutch is good going, and that's 2k if it needs the whole lot.
Yes, 2005 for the rebuild. Don't see any mention of clutch other than a AP racing one at the time of rebuild. I see that's NLA. Clutch and some new carpets - there's the best part of 3K lolPhil_D kindly showed me his Tuscan S this evening. Had a passenger ride, he even allowed me a drive and I somehow managed to resist his encouragement to send it!! (unfamiliar car and not mine etc)
What. A. Car!
I'm completely smitten. I had expectations/ preconceptions and Phils car went way beyond. Snug yet roomy, excellent ride comfort. Pedals nicely weighted, long throttle. Brake performance A+ and my god that engine A very tractable unit yet explosive when you want it to be. Bit of a pussy cat really when bimbling about but the feeling that the car would rip yer head off if you take liberties is very appealing
Of course a really mint S like his is way outside my budget currently. I'm going to have another look at the example I posted and have a chat with the guy who did the servicing work and form an opinion from there. There is a few questions around the chassis that will need answered. Will tread carefully but tonight has me 99% sold on getting into TVR ownership
Cheers, FF
What. A. Car!
I'm completely smitten. I had expectations/ preconceptions and Phils car went way beyond. Snug yet roomy, excellent ride comfort. Pedals nicely weighted, long throttle. Brake performance A+ and my god that engine
A very tractable unit yet explosive when you want it to be. Bit of a pussy cat really when bimbling about but the feeling that the car would rip yer head off if you take liberties is very appealingOf course a really mint S like his is way outside my budget currently. I'm going to have another look at the example I posted and have a chat with the guy who did the servicing work and form an opinion from there. There is a few questions around the chassis that will need answered. Will tread carefully but tonight has me 99% sold on getting into TVR ownership
Cheers, FF
BEARDYB0Y said:
You've caught the bug! You are in dangerous waters now!! 
I had the exact same thing when I first drove my Tamora. Its only my third car I've owned but I really cant see me ever wanting anything more, there is nothing else quite like a TVR and certainly not for the money. The steering and brake feel is spectacular and the surge of power (even from the 3.6l) is intoxicating... then there is the sheer drama of the noise.
All the best with the search, you wont regret getting a good one!
Cheers, I may regret buying a bad one though!I had the exact same thing when I first drove my Tamora. Its only my third car I've owned but I really cant see me ever wanting anything more, there is nothing else quite like a TVR and certainly not for the money. The steering and brake feel is spectacular and the surge of power (even from the 3.6l) is intoxicating... then there is the sheer drama of the noise.
All the best with the search, you wont regret getting a good one!
Another kind forum user is letting me have a look at his Chimaera 400 tomorrow. Equally excited but the Tuscan has set the bar very very high.
Cheers, FF
Squirrelofwoe said:
Will be interesting to see how you find the Chimaera after the Tuscan!
Just summing things up in my head as I type this. Again, the generosity of a stranger to allow me to view and drive a car is top notch. Difference is that the Chimaera I viewed is indeed for sale but not yet advertised AFAIK. Looked to be mechanically very good for the asking price and had some good baseline mods done but would need a few things if I went down that particular route.The Tuscan is a completely different beast to the Chim. Phils car spoiled me just with the shear violence of the performance, his is a very fit and very well sorted car. Differences such as cabin space, control weighting, road manners etc are a generation ahead from the Chimaera. But then a 400 Chim is a different budget and different ownership proposition. Apples and Oranges comparison really.
Still have to look at the 'cheap' Tuscan again, will see what happens.
So I called in with the dealer to see if Saturday morning would suit to get it up on the ramp... The 4 poster was free so they did facilitate that there and then. Had a drive after and....
Outriggers look like they've had repair rather than being replaced as I could see weld build up on certain areas. It's then had a lick of paint and there is indication of overspray. Also has a couple of leaks. Most likely power steering somewhere and there is a leak coming from one of the oil reservoir pipes and from the gearbox. Also oil build up on the drive shaft ends at the hubs.
The car did still drive very well. Strong engine, gearbox and clutch felt good. Could definitely feel the MK1 geometry at the front, it's twitchy.
So, on the fence. It could be a good occasional car if bought for well below the asking but will likely head into project territory with a year or 2 of use. It's a roadworthy car but does need some spending considering what it is/deserves (leaks, carpets, clutch etc)
Gut feeling is unless this one can be bought very cheaply I'll be holding off and upping the budget. Still may look at something more conventional but I don't know what is going to offer that driving experience for similar money. Will sleep on it after speaking to the garage who looked after it.
Outriggers look like they've had repair rather than being replaced as I could see weld build up on certain areas. It's then had a lick of paint and there is indication of overspray. Also has a couple of leaks. Most likely power steering somewhere and there is a leak coming from one of the oil reservoir pipes and from the gearbox. Also oil build up on the drive shaft ends at the hubs.
The car did still drive very well. Strong engine, gearbox and clutch felt good. Could definitely feel the MK1 geometry at the front, it's twitchy.
So, on the fence. It could be a good occasional car if bought for well below the asking but will likely head into project territory with a year or 2 of use. It's a roadworthy car but does need some spending considering what it is/deserves (leaks, carpets, clutch etc)
Gut feeling is unless this one can be bought very cheaply I'll be holding off and upping the budget. Still may look at something more conventional but I don't know what is going to offer that driving experience for similar money. Will sleep on it after speaking to the garage who looked after it.
Cheers, there was what I'd call abnormal amounts of weld on areas that probably had suffered some corrosion. A repaired chassis if you will but I was hoping to have seen a tidier job, subjective as that opinion is.
Car has Billies/eibachs, fairly sure the oil at the rear is bearing seals or similar
Steering was an observation, not a negative. It was interesting to drive 2 examples from polar ends of the market (not that Phil's car is for sale, I didn't ask, didn't have to, he clearly loves it!) back to back.
Car has Billies/eibachs, fairly sure the oil at the rear is bearing seals or similar
Steering was an observation, not a negative. It was interesting to drive 2 examples from polar ends of the market (not that Phil's car is for sale, I didn't ask, didn't have to, he clearly loves it!) back to back.
PrinceRupert said:
I see you're in NI, if you're ever in London let me know and you can come check out my Mk1 Tuscan, it was towards the bottom end of the market (£28k in March 2021; albeit was bought from Str8Six, was cheaper as was 'high' mileage at around 65k) and is a great, well sorted car (other than it is in the bad books as it just cost me a small fortune in transport fees due to an oil pressure issue which turned out to be the oil sender - again, was only replaced six months ago!). It has had a couple of expensive services (700 quid minor last year, 1700 quid major this year) and needed a couple of things in the interim (tyres after a puncture, two bloody oil senders ....) and has cost me a bit of cash in transport fees (as I want to get it to Str8Six, which isn't that close) - but overall I reckon that's not all that bad.
No trips planned this year but a kind offer which I'll keep track of.Seems to be a gap in my budget and the car I'd ideally want so I think I'll be holding off for a while. The vendors of the 'cheap' car weren't for entertaining any offers and that's probably no bad thing, for me anyway.
Will see what pops up on the market in due course. Chimaera is still on the radar but I now fear buying one and then thinking I should've held out for a Tuscan
So, for now...
Cheers, FF
Will see what pops up on the market in due course. Chimaera is still on the radar but I now fear buying one and then thinking I should've held out for a Tuscan
So, for now...
Cheers, FF
Shnozz said:
At £20k I’m not surprised. Think if you can’t stretch to that you might be saving a long while to find another for anywhere near that price point.
Regardless, if cash is that tight I’m not sure I’d want to be running a speed 6 TVR.
Should've clarified better. My budget for a toy was 20K. The car I viewed is 20K but really wants a lot of money spending on it, there's no wiggle room for necessary refurbishment. That makes it poor value compared to a more sorted example IMHO. After doing plenty of research I'd be better looking at a car with the desirable rebuild etc. That's realistically a 25-30K (or more) proposition. If I spend that now I'll likely end up divorced!!Regardless, if cash is that tight I’m not sure I’d want to be running a speed 6 TVR.
Associated running costs are fine, buying the wrong car to start with isn't.
Cheers, FF
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