Discussion
Hello!
I took the beast for the first real drive of the season, and though it was flawless, the engine temps are behaving Strangely.
The car never overheated, but when drive at low load / low rpms, the temperature is higher than at higher rpm / higher load, all other things considered equal. For instance, 40mph on 4th gear was hotter that in 3rd.i I'm talking a few degrees difference (4-5) but it was still noticeable. On the same note, when getting the car back in storage, the temp struggled to get down with the fans on. Outside temp was 17C today, so not too warm, and the water temp was between 75 and 90 depending on the conditions.
The car has had a thermostat change before storage, and I suspect a poor quality coolant to be the origin of this behaviour. Before this, the thermostat was always open and the temp were decreasing much faster at idle with fans on than before, even with 35C outside.
Thanks!
Julien
I took the beast for the first real drive of the season, and though it was flawless, the engine temps are behaving Strangely.
The car never overheated, but when drive at low load / low rpms, the temperature is higher than at higher rpm / higher load, all other things considered equal. For instance, 40mph on 4th gear was hotter that in 3rd.i I'm talking a few degrees difference (4-5) but it was still noticeable. On the same note, when getting the car back in storage, the temp struggled to get down with the fans on. Outside temp was 17C today, so not too warm, and the water temp was between 75 and 90 depending on the conditions.
The car has had a thermostat change before storage, and I suspect a poor quality coolant to be the origin of this behaviour. Before this, the thermostat was always open and the temp were decreasing much faster at idle with fans on than before, even with 35C outside.
Thanks!
Julien
Thank you for your answers!
I don't think there may be air in the system. I've driven in several times, and the coolant level does not move. Am I right?
Aide, I've used your app to monitor the temperature, but did not make any log. But the temp really decreased a few degrees when getting one gear down. It's not so fast to move though.
Grufallo, you may be right (well, I hope so!). I know it should be lower than what written on the tank but is this OK?
Thanks!
Julien
I don't think there may be air in the system. I've driven in several times, and the coolant level does not move. Am I right?
Aide, I've used your app to monitor the temperature, but did not make any log. But the temp really decreased a few degrees when getting one gear down. It's not so fast to move though.
Grufallo, you may be right (well, I hope so!). I know it should be lower than what written on the tank but is this OK?
Thanks!
Julien
Hello!
Thank you all for your inputs.
Hi Gary, how are you?
Finally I managed to buy a jack last week and have just worked a bit on the car. In fact the bleeding screw on the radiator is not right at the top of the rad, so if you let the car horizontal, you can't bleed it fully. So I did it and some more air came out of the radiator. Coolant level was a bit low, so went to my mechanic to get some and he said advised me to put only water in because if there is too much coolant in the mix, it may not circulate properly. I did so and then bled both rail, there was no air. Then had the cat to warm and everything looks fine. I can't take the car out as I have to change a tyre. I will have to wait till Wednesday... Can't wait!
Julien
Thank you all for your inputs.
Hi Gary, how are you?
Finally I managed to buy a jack last week and have just worked a bit on the car. In fact the bleeding screw on the radiator is not right at the top of the rad, so if you let the car horizontal, you can't bleed it fully. So I did it and some more air came out of the radiator. Coolant level was a bit low, so went to my mechanic to get some and he said advised me to put only water in because if there is too much coolant in the mix, it may not circulate properly. I did so and then bled both rail, there was no air. Then had the cat to warm and everything looks fine. I can't take the car out as I have to change a tyre. I will have to wait till Wednesday... Can't wait!
Julien
Hello!
Not happy today. I've taken the car out for a little drive in town to change the tyre (which I didn't manage to do)and the car got close to 100 degrees C when in the lift to get I the garage and struggled to get down to 96 when stationary in the garage. Ambient temp around 15, air temp displayed by the car : 24... I've added some more water (and removed a bit of coolant) because the concentration was a bit high, but I don't have many illusions. Honestly I don't know what to do : I think the coolant is bled correctly, fans are working and the thermostat is new. So I get back to the original question : would a poor quality coolant have a bad effect? Could it be the new (raceproved rebuildable) thermostat be guilty?
Thank you for your help...
Julien
Not happy today. I've taken the car out for a little drive in town to change the tyre (which I didn't manage to do)and the car got close to 100 degrees C when in the lift to get I the garage and struggled to get down to 96 when stationary in the garage. Ambient temp around 15, air temp displayed by the car : 24... I've added some more water (and removed a bit of coolant) because the concentration was a bit high, but I don't have many illusions. Honestly I don't know what to do : I think the coolant is bled correctly, fans are working and the thermostat is new. So I get back to the original question : would a poor quality coolant have a bad effect? Could it be the new (raceproved rebuildable) thermostat be guilty?
Thank you for your help...
Julien
Edited by Jooles81 on Saturday 8th April 19:45
Hello,
thank you for your inputs. I put a bit more water in the coolant yesterday, and bled once more the cooling system : there was again some air in the radiator. Got the car out to log some data as Aide initially advised ( and which I dismissed, probably a mistake) and it was better today. I think I'll keep on bleeding the cooling system till nothing gets out. Obviously it's not properly bled, and it will take some time to do so. Ayway, I have 2 logs to show.
The whole log of this morning :
The last part getting in the garage with 2 cooling cycles (the parts that worries me)
The car is not over-heating. It's just slow to get the temps down and I'm afraid it will over-heat when it gets hotter.
Just thinking about it, I must have old logs I can comapre those with. I'll have a look and report back.
Julien
thank you for your inputs. I put a bit more water in the coolant yesterday, and bled once more the cooling system : there was again some air in the radiator. Got the car out to log some data as Aide initially advised ( and which I dismissed, probably a mistake) and it was better today. I think I'll keep on bleeding the cooling system till nothing gets out. Obviously it's not properly bled, and it will take some time to do so. Ayway, I have 2 logs to show.
The whole log of this morning :
The last part getting in the garage with 2 cooling cycles (the parts that worries me)
The car is not over-heating. It's just slow to get the temps down and I'm afraid it will over-heat when it gets hotter.
Just thinking about it, I must have old logs I can comapre those with. I'll have a look and report back.
Julien
Unfortunately, it looks like I'm not paranoid :
Cooling from 96 to 86 deg. used to take 200 'time units' at 37deg. ambient temp. Today's log shows 600-700 time units to cool from 96 to 86 at 25deg. air temp (15 real temp, I guess the intake is warmed up by the engine heat)
Will keep bleeding the car, maybe change the coolant, but there is definately something wrong here.
Julien
Cooling from 96 to 86 deg. used to take 200 'time units' at 37deg. ambient temp. Today's log shows 600-700 time units to cool from 96 to 86 at 25deg. air temp (15 real temp, I guess the intake is warmed up by the engine heat)
Will keep bleeding the car, maybe change the coolant, but there is definately something wrong here.
Julien
Hello!
Aide, thank you. I'll be able to make some tables from time. But more so, thank you for your first post and RS-AJP, in fact logging the data helps me to put some data and numbers on my gut feelings, and this turn out being very helpful.
So, yesterday I bled once more the car (removing once more some air from the radiator, don't know when it will stop... I'll do so everytime I want to take the car out till there is nothing I guess) and remove some coolant to add 1 liter (!) water to the mix. I've read a bit, and it appears that glycol has less cooling power than water. So more glycol in the mix means less cooling power. I had my mechanic check for the coolant last week and he told me that ''everything is fine, it is at -40degC, it's ok till -30, should not come from this''. Well, I don't care it to resist to -30 in the summer, I want it to cool my engine when it's +40!!! So I decided to lower the coolant content and I think I was right :
It's less good than before changing the thermostat change, but it's better than before at around 400 units to cool down. It was definately better without long stops at 90deg +. So I guess bleeding and lowering the coolant content in the right way. Moreover, today was hotter with almost 30degC air temp at the ECU / almost 20deg ambient temp.
This is definately interesting for me as, first, it looks like I'm on the right way, and it's also confirming my first gut feeling that something was wrong with the coolant. Moreover, it's always fun to learn something!
Hope this will be helpful for someone else.
Julien
Aide, thank you. I'll be able to make some tables from time. But more so, thank you for your first post and RS-AJP, in fact logging the data helps me to put some data and numbers on my gut feelings, and this turn out being very helpful.
So, yesterday I bled once more the car (removing once more some air from the radiator, don't know when it will stop... I'll do so everytime I want to take the car out till there is nothing I guess) and remove some coolant to add 1 liter (!) water to the mix. I've read a bit, and it appears that glycol has less cooling power than water. So more glycol in the mix means less cooling power. I had my mechanic check for the coolant last week and he told me that ''everything is fine, it is at -40degC, it's ok till -30, should not come from this''. Well, I don't care it to resist to -30 in the summer, I want it to cool my engine when it's +40!!! So I decided to lower the coolant content and I think I was right :
It's less good than before changing the thermostat change, but it's better than before at around 400 units to cool down. It was definately better without long stops at 90deg +. So I guess bleeding and lowering the coolant content in the right way. Moreover, today was hotter with almost 30degC air temp at the ECU / almost 20deg ambient temp.
This is definately interesting for me as, first, it looks like I'm on the right way, and it's also confirming my first gut feeling that something was wrong with the coolant. Moreover, it's always fun to learn something!
Hope this will be helpful for someone else.
Julien
Hello!
me again... I went for a spririted drive today, and the car, though not over-heating, was once more on the hot side. Today was 20degC. Here is the graph :
Basically, the car needs 150s (the scale is in seconds this time) to decrease from 96deg. to 88. Sounds like a lot to me. Can someone make a log after a spirited drive to check how long it takes to cool down...
While driving the temp was a constant 70-75degC.
Thanks a lot in advance.
Julien
me again... I went for a spririted drive today, and the car, though not over-heating, was once more on the hot side. Today was 20degC. Here is the graph :
Basically, the car needs 150s (the scale is in seconds this time) to decrease from 96deg. to 88. Sounds like a lot to me. Can someone make a log after a spirited drive to check how long it takes to cool down...
While driving the temp was a constant 70-75degC.
Thanks a lot in advance.
Julien
Hello gents!
I'm still struggling with my cooling system...
Last week I measured the temp of the coolant in the radiator and it was - 45, so almost pure antifreeze. Being optimistic, I've let the car yesterday at the garage for a coolant change (flush, new water and coolant at 20% mix and a bottle water wetter). On the way back home, I had to stop twice because of steam escaping the expansion tank, with the cat at around 90 degC. When opening carefully the cap, fluid came out, leading me to think there was too much fluid in the tank and it was leveling.
This morning, expansion tank empty...
Had other plans today, so had a look only this evening. Filled the tank, checked the bleeding, everything looks fine when engine not running (nice fluid flow without bubbles at radiator and both ramps). When engine running, driver side ramp is OK, but the passenger side give only bubbles like this :
https://youtu.be/C_7BSJI6kn0
When stopping the car, I'm back to a nice flow :
https://youtu.be/635JHM_7yxw
What do you guys think? I have not the possibility to give it to a specialist as I'm in Bulgaria. Should I let the engine run till there are no bubbles? Is it normal? Should I let it like this?
I must sound stupid, sorry if this is the case, but I don't want to f
k the car up...
Thanks for your help!
Julien
I'm still struggling with my cooling system...
Last week I measured the temp of the coolant in the radiator and it was - 45, so almost pure antifreeze. Being optimistic, I've let the car yesterday at the garage for a coolant change (flush, new water and coolant at 20% mix and a bottle water wetter). On the way back home, I had to stop twice because of steam escaping the expansion tank, with the cat at around 90 degC. When opening carefully the cap, fluid came out, leading me to think there was too much fluid in the tank and it was leveling.
This morning, expansion tank empty...
Had other plans today, so had a look only this evening. Filled the tank, checked the bleeding, everything looks fine when engine not running (nice fluid flow without bubbles at radiator and both ramps). When engine running, driver side ramp is OK, but the passenger side give only bubbles like this :
https://youtu.be/C_7BSJI6kn0
When stopping the car, I'm back to a nice flow :
https://youtu.be/635JHM_7yxw
What do you guys think? I have not the possibility to give it to a specialist as I'm in Bulgaria. Should I let the engine run till there are no bubbles? Is it normal? Should I let it like this?
I must sound stupid, sorry if this is the case, but I don't want to f
k the car up... Thanks for your help!
Julien
Hello!
Radiator is 3 years / 2000 miles old. It's an alloy one.
Head gaskets are 5 years / 5000miles old. No signs of gunk in oil or coolant.
I took some time this morning to try to bleed it again. Got to the point that the passenger side is not spitting any air even when running. Only when I give some gas, the flow stops and upon release of the pedal it spits again for a second and the there is a nice regular flow. Here is a video, it was even better after a few minutes :
https://youtu.be/QOK7vUwyfjs
Here is the driver side for reference :
https://youtu.be/4AIUBAytjME
This succion effect can be also done on the driver side but you have to give it more gas. I think this is due to the coolant flow not splitting evenly between both banks (driver side is closer to the pump after all) and the flow of the driver side is sucking the passenger side, if this makes sense. And when the coolant flow is increasing, it's sucking air. All this with the cap off, so system not under pressure of course.
I'll let the car cool a few hours and I'll do the same again to check. Will maybe even go for a drive if the car is willing to co-operate...
Any thoughts? Ideas?
Julien
Radiator is 3 years / 2000 miles old. It's an alloy one.
Head gaskets are 5 years / 5000miles old. No signs of gunk in oil or coolant.
I took some time this morning to try to bleed it again. Got to the point that the passenger side is not spitting any air even when running. Only when I give some gas, the flow stops and upon release of the pedal it spits again for a second and the there is a nice regular flow. Here is a video, it was even better after a few minutes :
https://youtu.be/QOK7vUwyfjs
Here is the driver side for reference :
https://youtu.be/4AIUBAytjME
This succion effect can be also done on the driver side but you have to give it more gas. I think this is due to the coolant flow not splitting evenly between both banks (driver side is closer to the pump after all) and the flow of the driver side is sucking the passenger side, if this makes sense. And when the coolant flow is increasing, it's sucking air. All this with the cap off, so system not under pressure of course.
I'll let the car cool a few hours and I'll do the same again to check. Will maybe even go for a drive if the car is willing to co-operate...
Any thoughts? Ideas?
Julien
The clearing pipes is a very good idea. I'll source some tomorrow and try this way. Moreover, this will let me see what happens exactly when I give some gas.
I've let it warm enough this morning to open the thermostat. I run it half an hour letting air go out with the cap open, as you say. I'll do it again tomorrow. I went for a short spin half an our ago, which was not very successful, and I want to check the level before anything else.
Thanks!
Julien
I've let it warm enough this morning to open the thermostat. I run it half an hour letting air go out with the cap open, as you say. I'll do it again tomorrow. I went for a short spin half an our ago, which was not very successful, and I want to check the level before anything else.
Thanks!
Julien
Don't worry, that's helpful. BTW, I think I'm the biggest fool. When I got the car on Friday evening, there was probably water everywhere, and it steamed out and I panicked. Quite the same as you say. A few months ago, the cap was worn and spilled water everywhere...
I rechecked the level this evening : ok. Checked the bleeding in the radiator : there was still some air, now ok. Checked the rails while running : some bubbles and then ok. Go the car warm enough to start the fans several times : ok, including fast cooling when giving some help with the throttle. And... Lots of steam coming from the heat insulation under the coolant tank.
Conclusion :
- the car was probably working properly on Friday evening, it was just the insulation that was soaked from changing the coolant, and I panicked
- cooling system was probably cooling enough, only had to give it a bit of gas
- I was a fool. I still am, just a bit less so
- I think I got pretty good at bleeding the Thing (it's its nickname, btw), or at least understanding it.
- I used this time to check and set the throttle pots and it's running even better...
Plans for tomorrow : Checking level, bleeding again, let cook a little to check if any steam gets out, and go for a drive to the closest cleaning station...
Thanks for your inputs. This has been helpful indeed. I'll let you know what happens tomorrow (if it isn't boring to you, of course)
Julien
I rechecked the level this evening : ok. Checked the bleeding in the radiator : there was still some air, now ok. Checked the rails while running : some bubbles and then ok. Go the car warm enough to start the fans several times : ok, including fast cooling when giving some help with the throttle. And... Lots of steam coming from the heat insulation under the coolant tank.
Conclusion :
- the car was probably working properly on Friday evening, it was just the insulation that was soaked from changing the coolant, and I panicked
- cooling system was probably cooling enough, only had to give it a bit of gas
- I was a fool. I still am, just a bit less so
- I think I got pretty good at bleeding the Thing (it's its nickname, btw), or at least understanding it.
- I used this time to check and set the throttle pots and it's running even better...
Plans for tomorrow : Checking level, bleeding again, let cook a little to check if any steam gets out, and go for a drive to the closest cleaning station...
Thanks for your inputs. This has been helpful indeed. I'll let you know what happens tomorrow (if it isn't boring to you, of course)
Julien
Hello!
Well, cooling looks good. I've driven it in some hotter weather lately, and everything seems to behave properly there. The car doesn't ho below 80, which is fine with a standard thermostat and cools pretty fast if you give it some revs. Upping the idle to proper 950rpm seems to have helped too.
Relating to this, the car runs very poorly, stutters, and goes like st stuck to a shovel. Not good. All plugs on the driver bank have seen poor ignition with heavy, are black with lots of gas remaining on them. Left bak is better. So the car is due new coils, leads (which have perished, and one is clearly missing some insulation) and plugs. Should be fine after that...
Julien
Well, cooling looks good. I've driven it in some hotter weather lately, and everything seems to behave properly there. The car doesn't ho below 80, which is fine with a standard thermostat and cools pretty fast if you give it some revs. Upping the idle to proper 950rpm seems to have helped too.
Relating to this, the car runs very poorly, stutters, and goes like s
t stuck to a shovel. Not good. All plugs on the driver bank have seen poor ignition with heavy, are black with lots of gas remaining on them. Left bak is better. So the car is due new coils, leads (which have perished, and one is clearly missing some insulation) and plugs. Should be fine after that... Julien
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