Spare 4.2 engine?
Discussion
Anyone got a spare engine?
Mines an early engine, so on stripping has been found to have the old style chrome valves with bronze guides, wear to the camshafts etc.
Bottom end has the small main bearing cast crankshaft, which even though it's not snapped, noone is keen to rebuild with it.
Cost to repair/replace everything is extortionate, so I was wondering if anyone had a spare engine. It'll probably still need stripping and examining but I'm wondering if this is a cheaper route. Otherwise I'm looking at selling the car to pay for the engine rebuild
Or does anyone want a project for a LS3? Full body off Chassis restoration 4 years ago, paint job 6 months ago, every mechanical replaced.
Arse
Mines an early engine, so on stripping has been found to have the old style chrome valves with bronze guides, wear to the camshafts etc.
Bottom end has the small main bearing cast crankshaft, which even though it's not snapped, noone is keen to rebuild with it.
Cost to repair/replace everything is extortionate, so I was wondering if anyone had a spare engine. It'll probably still need stripping and examining but I'm wondering if this is a cheaper route. Otherwise I'm looking at selling the car to pay for the engine rebuild
Or does anyone want a project for a LS3? Full body off Chassis restoration 4 years ago, paint job 6 months ago, every mechanical replaced.
Arse
It's only £4800 for a crate ls3 engine. The rest is all the other parts required, ecu, clutch, mounts etc and the labour.
To be honest, I'd keep the ajp. I don't need more power and its part of the uniqueness.
Only way I can keep it i guess is to get a second hand engine and drop that in,then get mine done bit by bit over the next few years, or just stick it away in the garage for 2-3years, but by that time I'm looking towards retiring and would probably get shot of then.
I think intending towards getting the engine done so it's the best it can be then flog it to a lucky person.
To be honest, I'd keep the ajp. I don't need more power and its part of the uniqueness.
Only way I can keep it i guess is to get a second hand engine and drop that in,then get mine done bit by bit over the next few years, or just stick it away in the garage for 2-3years, but by that time I'm looking towards retiring and would probably get shot of then.
I think intending towards getting the engine done so it's the best it can be then flog it to a lucky person.
spitfire4v8 said:
What actually needs to be changed to put it back to a working engine ? If it's just a refresh as such just ask for that, sign a no-warranty disclaimer, and use it as you have been all these years with no issues.
If the engine builder wont do that, get your bits back and take it to someone like mat smith, or ian at track vroad, or that guy in blackpool who used to build engines for the factory (forget his name) or any of the other garages that have rebuilt engines.
Don't you use niel garner? can't they help you out ?
I fully understand the element of wanting to protect a businesses reputation and also the profit of selling new cranks, but I prefer to see a more real-world approach to these things (unless someone is loaded, in which case go for it with twin turbo LS !!)
Yeah all this - engine was taken out at Neils, is currently with someone else.If the engine builder wont do that, get your bits back and take it to someone like mat smith, or ian at track vroad, or that guy in blackpool who used to build engines for the factory (forget his name) or any of the other garages that have rebuilt engines.
Don't you use niel garner? can't they help you out ?
I fully understand the element of wanting to protect a businesses reputation and also the profit of selling new cranks, but I prefer to see a more real-world approach to these things (unless someone is loaded, in which case go for it with twin turbo LS !!)
Need to discuss options
Plus with my history of Silverstone Performance and how they owed me lots of money, I'm surprised you mentioned him.
Edited by Byker28i on Tuesday 16th January 11:24
Jhonno said:
Speak to Andy @APM
Websites down: http://www.apmtvrservicing.co.uk/Have you an email address?
The quote I have is:
Top End: Both cylinder heads are seized onto the headstuds and requiring extra work to remove. There is significant wear to the valve tops where the valve shims sit. Old type chrome valves fitted with bronze guides which have excessive wear, no.6 inlet guide is loose in the head. The guides are early type which don't support the spring base correctly and have cap style oil seals. Camshafts and buckets are starting to wear. Both cylinder heads require reface due to corrosion.
Bottom End: Small main bearing cast crankshaft fitted, It is not recommended that this style of crankshaft is reused and they have a tendancy to snap. Nearly all crankshaft bearing are down to the copper. All cylinder liners are in fairly good condition and with 3 thou ovality. Although this is the top end of serviceability we could machine hone and gain a thou back. All the pistons are in serviceable condition and could be molycoated to extend their life.
Small shaft aux fitted which should be upgraded. Chain slipper is worn down to the rivets. Crankshaft locking bolt washer is missing. Conrods were fitted with the early cheap big end bolts.
The pump assembly requires rebuilding. Old type soft oil pressure relief valve spring is fitted.
Rectification required:
Full engine rebuild inc line bore to the block to fit later large main crankshaft. Rebuild cylinder heads with new guides and machine the seats to suit. Rebuild pump assembly.
Parts:
2x Chilled cast camshafts £500.00
16x Cam buckets. £272.00
16x valve stem seals £64.00
16x Tuftrided valves £280.00
16x Valve guides £300.00
16x Valve springs £320.00
2x Cylinder head gaskets £190.00
1x Timing chain £85.00
1x Chain slipper £90.00
8 Aux bearings £132.00
1x Crankshaft £1750.00
8x Piston ring sets £240.00
10x Main bearings £85.00
16x Big end bearings £70.00
O rings & seals £90.00
Aux shaft & pulley £TBD
Rebuild pump assembly £690.00
Molekote all 8 pistons £280.00
Big end bolt kit £80.00
Engineering £680.00
Re-face heads £150.00
Then there's lots of labour and even more VAT to add before other costs
Top End: Both cylinder heads are seized onto the headstuds and requiring extra work to remove. There is significant wear to the valve tops where the valve shims sit. Old type chrome valves fitted with bronze guides which have excessive wear, no.6 inlet guide is loose in the head. The guides are early type which don't support the spring base correctly and have cap style oil seals. Camshafts and buckets are starting to wear. Both cylinder heads require reface due to corrosion.
Bottom End: Small main bearing cast crankshaft fitted, It is not recommended that this style of crankshaft is reused and they have a tendancy to snap. Nearly all crankshaft bearing are down to the copper. All cylinder liners are in fairly good condition and with 3 thou ovality. Although this is the top end of serviceability we could machine hone and gain a thou back. All the pistons are in serviceable condition and could be molycoated to extend their life.
Small shaft aux fitted which should be upgraded. Chain slipper is worn down to the rivets. Crankshaft locking bolt washer is missing. Conrods were fitted with the early cheap big end bolts.
The pump assembly requires rebuilding. Old type soft oil pressure relief valve spring is fitted.
Rectification required:
Full engine rebuild inc line bore to the block to fit later large main crankshaft. Rebuild cylinder heads with new guides and machine the seats to suit. Rebuild pump assembly.
Parts:
2x Chilled cast camshafts £500.00
16x Cam buckets. £272.00
16x valve stem seals £64.00
16x Tuftrided valves £280.00
16x Valve guides £300.00
16x Valve springs £320.00
2x Cylinder head gaskets £190.00
1x Timing chain £85.00
1x Chain slipper £90.00
8 Aux bearings £132.00
1x Crankshaft £1750.00
8x Piston ring sets £240.00
10x Main bearings £85.00
16x Big end bearings £70.00
O rings & seals £90.00
Aux shaft & pulley £TBD
Rebuild pump assembly £690.00
Molekote all 8 pistons £280.00
Big end bolt kit £80.00
Engineering £680.00
Re-face heads £150.00
Then there's lots of labour and even more VAT to add before other costs
FarmyardPants said:
julian64 said:
FarmyardPants said:
Of that list, probably the only things you could skimp on are the crank (ie ignore the advice), cams (probably "ok"), valve springs (ditto) and the molekote.
Assuming the £680 engineering was for the block to accommodate the larger crank, and assuming +£2k labour and £500 for the aux shaft&pulley, I make that £5,318 plus VAT = £6,382 inc VAT.
Including all the bells and whistles, new crank and cams is £10,618 inc vat.
Must be some second hand engines hanging around for less than thatAssuming the £680 engineering was for the block to accommodate the larger crank, and assuming +£2k labour and £500 for the aux shaft&pulley, I make that £5,318 plus VAT = £6,382 inc VAT.
Including all the bells and whistles, new crank and cams is £10,618 inc vat.
Depends on one's crank risk appetite
Jhonno said:
Whenever I see 2nd hand engines pop up they are about 3-5k..
I saw a fully built 4.7 for 10k..
Trouble is most are of an unknown quantity, so you'd have to get it stripped and inspected for piece of mind, and then everyone I've found has come out of damaged cars.I saw a fully built 4.7 for 10k..
So there may be a end in sight. A well know Indy has a complete rebuilt engine which has done 6K+ miles (or maybe a few more) who will let it go for £6k plus my engine. Could be a result.
FarmyardPants said:
If that's a drive in/out price that's not a bad deal. Nicely run in for you as well . Presumably a 4.2? What crank?
Nope, the engine was taken out and sent off, so it's still got to be put back in, ancillaries swapped over. My engine had work on the inlets, act exhaust manifolds, brand new starter, coils, everything new in the last year really bar the internals. Presumably a 4.2? What crank?Jhonno said:
Chimp871 said:
It has to be overplayed the smaller journal crank problem. As I understand it it was a combination of the crank not balanced and a suspect batch (but I stand to be corrected). Some failed yes but the vast majority haven't.
Its a bit like the porsche 996 IMS bearing problem. It allegedly affect 10% of cars but 99% of the owners all felt doomed.
I think it is.. There was an earlier batch that were the biggest issue, with a lack of counterweight! Plenty of small journal cranks out there fine. Its a bit like the porsche 996 IMS bearing problem. It allegedly affect 10% of cars but 99% of the owners all felt doomed.
My car was sold in May 1997 so the engine is earlier that that.
So I had £5k put aside as a contingency of an engine rebuild required. Looks like it will need twice that now. I can see the attraction of LS3 engines now. A good modern engine with a power upgrade
nawarne said:
Jhonno said:
Byker28i said:
I've not had issues with mine and it's been well used in my ownership. Trackdays until the rebuild, Fighting Torque twice, it was happy chasing a McLaren P1 at Spa last year
My car was sold in May 1997 so the engine is earlier that that.
So I had £5k put aside as a contingency of an engine rebuild required. Looks like it will need twice that now. I can see the attraction of LS3 engines now. A good modern engine with a power upgrade
Have you spoken to Andy @APM? (I did send you an e-mail through here with his details..)My car was sold in May 1997 so the engine is earlier that that.
So I had £5k put aside as a contingency of an engine rebuild required. Looks like it will need twice that now. I can see the attraction of LS3 engines now. A good modern engine with a power upgrade
Nothing against LS engines, but AJP FTW!
Hope you get a good outcome from all of the advice!
Nick
I've had suggestions of others to contact, offers of some parts if they weren't available, even just good vibes from those who couldn't help.
It's an amazing community, not just from the owners but from the independants and suppliers as well
One suggests £16-18K for a drive in drive out conversion, thats new exhaust, ecu, gearbox, engine, wiring, ancilleries etc but I bet thats the base 430bhp engine
Easy to get into product creep if you've deep pockets. 525bhp, 6 speed box...
http://www.partsworldperformance.com/v8-performanc...
I'm looking at £12-£15k to rebuild my early engine - drive in/drive out, vat etc (theres still some unknowns) and thats done around 60K miles, regular servicing, oil changes. Ok at my 4-5k a year thats a lot of years yet but even so..
I just quite bring myself to change my Cerbera engine but I've a lot more understanding now on those that have.
Easy to get into product creep if you've deep pockets. 525bhp, 6 speed box...
http://www.partsworldperformance.com/v8-performanc...
I'm looking at £12-£15k to rebuild my early engine - drive in/drive out, vat etc (theres still some unknowns) and thats done around 60K miles, regular servicing, oil changes. Ok at my 4-5k a year thats a lot of years yet but even so..
I just quite bring myself to change my Cerbera engine but I've a lot more understanding now on those that have.
Jason at Str8six said he rebuilt one small crank engine with 250K miles on it.
Mines actually fine, and could be rebuilt, it's just that no one will warranty the engine. The newer crank is about 2.5K of the cost so that is a saving but probably a false one, especially if I sell the car.
Mines actually fine, and could be rebuilt, it's just that no one will warranty the engine. The newer crank is about 2.5K of the cost so that is a saving but probably a false one, especially if I sell the car.
I went to look at my engine in bits.
Camshafts are worn, so they need replacing. Valve seats need doing as do the guides. One was very loose and falling out the head. Head gaskets had rotted away, hence the issue removing the heads.
I was hoping for a simple head repair.
Yet the engine was pulling really well! Just goes to show I was right to get it out at the first sign of an issue.
I've not scrimped on this car at any point of ownership, always going above and beyond as I figured it was more cost effective todo everything possible when it was apart.
In the case of the engine, I think this is the correct way to go. A fully rebuilt original engine, keeps the engine number with the car, piece of mind and warranty
Camshafts are worn, so they need replacing. Valve seats need doing as do the guides. One was very loose and falling out the head. Head gaskets had rotted away, hence the issue removing the heads.
I was hoping for a simple head repair.
Yet the engine was pulling really well! Just goes to show I was right to get it out at the first sign of an issue.
I've not scrimped on this car at any point of ownership, always going above and beyond as I figured it was more cost effective todo everything possible when it was apart.
In the case of the engine, I think this is the correct way to go. A fully rebuilt original engine, keeps the engine number with the car, piece of mind and warranty
Gassing Station | Cerbera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff