Battery Warning Light - permanently on !

[Mr Cerbera]

Hi Team

Just as I'm going through last-minute checks before joining guillotine
in Belgium next week, my Battery Warning Light has come on - permanently.

It came on yesterday, just normal driving around, although hot outside.
Managed to get her home in 20 minutes and the motor started again, there, without probs.
Tried her again today and started no probs but light still on !

Had a search on here and most peeps tend to go with "Big Fuse".
Some have said "2 minute job" and others have said "a real bd".

My baby is a 2001 4.5 and, for the last 12 years, I haven't even been able to see the
offending article, let alone replace it.

Anyone got any tips on how NOT to make this a gigantic rebuild

Ta !

PJ

Edited by Mr Cerbera on Wednesday 4th July 06:36

[Mr Cerbera]

Penelope Stopit said:

......
I really shouldn't ask this but.....Have you checked the fan belt?.....Sorry I had to

Well, I'm glad you DID ask coz I can't find it !!

I can't believe that the alternator is located BEHIND the AC pump.
Where the hell does the drive come from ?

I know that I'm stupid but surely it can't be here..... Can it !!




That'll mean that I'll have to take the fuel injection system apart to change the belt.

Shirley not ??



Holy Dingbats !!

Edited by Mr Cerbera on Wednesday 4th July 17:47

[Mr Cerbera]

[Mr Cerbera]

FarmyardPants said:

That's ok.

Paul, let us know what the voltage is across the battery with engine running, assuming it still starts

Before Starting: Volts across Battery (to engine earth) = 12.33V
When idling ~ 900 rpm = 11.96V

From my 'standing next to wing' view I can't see the alternaror pulley moving

BUT
I can't see the engine pulley moving either

Am gonna try to see summat more with an endoscope cam.
Have taken my necktie off (just in case).

Wish me luck

[Mr Cerbera]

Penelope Stopit said:

OK, perhaps I was being a little obtuse.

Mine was "Sho Shin", the nearest translation of which is "Beginner's Mind".
i.e. Always ask questions. Without questions there are no answers and no mental growth.

I'm with you Penny

[Mr Cerbera]

Thanks for that, Rog

I realise that this is old news for most of you guys

BUT

Just in case there is someone out there who might need this in the future...

Once I'd taken the inlet manifolds off I was faced with this (taken from the passenger side)



After a bit of jiggery-pokery (and some heavy leverage) guess what I found !



Thanks for all your dvice, Guys

Will re-attack (with new back) tomoz

[Mr Cerbera]

stBuggerbdPissfkFart

It's NOT the Big Fuse
BUT
I have found it AND it's a beautiful 125A one

Guess I'll have to pursue the 'Alternator Drive Belt' theory.

Oh Well, Fuel Rail off twice in 15 months has to be some sort of record.

Ooops, don't forget to order those O Rings

Have a great Grand Prix and Sweden-crushing match All

[Mr Cerbera]

ukkid35 said:

The fuse doesn't seem to 'fail' completely every time

If you ever find you have a bouncy rev counter, the battery will probably still be charging, but replacing the fuse will fix the rev counter

It seems they can break down without preventing the battery from charging

Thanks Paul

As I haven't suffered any other intermittent electrical failures, I'm tempted to think TBF is still strong
combined with the fact that the Battery charge was lower whilst the engine was running pushes me in
the direction of a failing alternator (perhaps falsely).
I think I will rip off the fuel rail and have a look at the drive (which I am a little suspect of, now that I have
seen a pic of the 10PJ432170J drive belt).

I sent you a mail asking if there are any "Dos or Donts" about replacing the drive belt.

Just trying to access one at short notice, on a weekend, in a catholic country, might be my downfall

WML

[Mr Cerbera]

gruffalo said:

....You mention what the battery voltage is before starting and after at idle but what is it with the engine revving and then what is it with a load like headlights or rear window turned on? Knowing these will help diagnosis hugely.

Thanks G

I was going to write "I guess I'll have to pay someone to be a friend and push on the gas while I read the meter "
when I just realised that I can jam the linkage open from under the bonnet whilst holding the meter !

You're a STAR !

Results tomoz !

[Mr Cerbera]

Firstly, many thanks to ukkid35 for your mails, most appreciated

Secondly, Current st level: Over my mouth, underneath my nose

Managed to find twinkam's part no on the alternative parts list

Went to my local autofactors "Nothing exists for that width/length ratio !"

Searched on TVRParts and found that they specify different belts for the 4.2 and 4.5 motors ~ £22
so
Very glad that I didn't come away with the wrong belt

Unfortunately, for the umpteenth time, my order at TVRParts failed with
"VALIDATION ERROR - Invakid request - See details"
and there were, of course, no details.
________________________________________________________________________________________

So, 2 questions:

1) Has anyone ever successfully completed an order using the TVRParts website ?
I know that they've lost £600 on orders from me alone !

2) Has anyone ever replaced their Alternator Drive Belt on a 4.5 ?
If so, where did you get it from and (fingers crossed) what was the part no ?

Thanks all
________________________________________________________________________________________
ETA
Have found one from RaceTech, thanks
Interesting to find from TVRParts and RaceTech that there are two belts available.

4.2 Part No. E2121
4.5 Part No. E2943

Edited by Mr Cerbera on Saturday 7th July 13:28

[Mr Cerbera]

Chuggaboom said:

Mr Cerbera said:

I'm tempted to think TBF is still strong
combined with the fact that the Battery charge was lower whilst the engine was running

I was told, IIRC, by someone who builds many engines and is well known in the TVR world that the AJP alternator set up, coz of the pulley sizes, doesn't produce any useful charge untill over 1800 rpm.

Interesting statement Chugga
BUT
Methinks that the Warning light has come on for a reason

[Mr Cerbera]

Rufus Roughcut said:

When I wanted to carry one as a 'spare' the guys at the shop told me " just because yours is a 4.5 doesn't mean a 4.5 belt will fit!" I bought one of each.

Wishing you the best.

Cheers RR

Ha Ha ! That is such a classic TVR Supplier situation.

I have now ordered two, from different suppliers, neither of which promises to make my deadline so I will be interested to see what arrives (and when).

Thanks for your wishes

BTW Did you actually install a belt ?
I have heard that you have to unbolt the Alternator from its retaining plate and then try and poke and jiggle the belt on.
What sort of tensioner is used ?

Many thanks,

PJ

[Mr Cerbera]

FarmyardPants said:

Hi Paul, before you go to all that trouble, have you ascertained that the belt is shot/the alternator isn’t rotating? You said earlier that you couldn’t see it, but you also couldn’t see the drive pulley rotating..

Edited by FarmyardPants on Saturday 7th July 21:26

Hi Rog

Sorry about that. I became a little distracted when I was trying
to make the endoscope work on a Windows XP Notebok
BUT
after I threw that idea in the bin, I used the tried-and-trusted old engineers
trick of sticking summat in it whilst it was turning
and, low-and-behold, the engine pulley was spinning away like a good 'un whilst
the alternator was still as ........ ummmmm, where's the "can't think of a good metaphor"
smilie

BUT

Thanks fo reminding of it

[Mr Cerbera]

TwinKam said:

Alternator pivots on one side by a long bolt which runs through a tube, and is fixed on the other by a bolt which moves through an arc shaped slot in the mounting bracket. Very old skool but uncomplicated by springs and rollers.
You would need to slacken both the pivot bolt and locking bolt to move it, levering the alternator body upwards to tension the belt whilst you tighten first the locking bolt and then the pivot bolt.
How much tension on the belt? Difficult to describe... but using moderate effort on the lever. As the belt is so short for its width, it will be actually quite difficult to over tension it.
Here's a pic I found of the bracket:
https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/TVR-AJP-V8-Alternator-Bra...

Hi Rik

Thanks for all that info.
I'm sure when it's all in my hands that it will mean summat

[Mr Cerbera]

Now I'm sure that summat should be on here....


"Dear Mr. Phelps/Hunt" ((Depending on your age)
"This tape will self-destruct in 102,000 miles"





I can't believe that I am so lucky.
Of all the places that we've travelled to, this happened 10 mins from home.

"I musta done somebody some good"

Edited by Mr Cerbera on Monday 9th July 15:17

[Mr Cerbera]

Penelope Stopit said:

I'm glad you found the fault
Yes it's all about Karma

Yup, I'm lookin' forward to a pint of that tonight
(Still waitin' for the parts to arrive though)

[Mr Cerbera]

OK Geniuses, Engineers and Supermen,

The new drive belt will not go on to the engine pulley because of the lack of space between it and the Alternator Mounting Bracket.

The rear two Alen Bolts of the AMB cannot be undone because the Alternator blocks access.

The Alternator cannot be lifted out because of lack of space between it and the throttle bodies.
!
If this means that I have to take a throttle body off to change the drive belt
then
please consider this as a Sales Ad !

Your constructive (and other) comments are desperately required
(Oh pretty please)

Edited by Mr Cerbera on Monday 16th July 17:28

[Mr Cerbera]

The Nige said:

It wasn't that long ago but i'm sure that the problem bolt was this one at the rear of the alternator.

I had to release the tension on the belt undo the other bolts and sort of lift the rear of the alternator as you undo the problem bolt.
If that makes any sense.
I will swap you bleading my cerb for undoing your alternator bolt.

Nige, that is THE MOST PERFECT SHOT !

Coz even with all that stripped you STILL can't see the MoFu !

I would gladly pull Mellings fingernails out one-by-one

I can't even think what type of 'specialist tool' would do the job
______________________________________________________

I've managed to get the Alternator Locknut off and out and
I've managed to remove the Pivot Pin nut

BUT

It looks like I've got to pull both coil packs out to withdraw the Pivot to fully release the Alternator from its retaining plate.
'Effin 'Ell

Edited by Mr Cerbera on Thursday 12th July 21:43

[Mr Cerbera]

Hmmmmmmm, I hope that you're not bored.

If, for nothing else, I put these observations in so that someone in the future has a guide
(albeit from a Numptie).

Belt arrived (YeeeeHaaa !)
Couldn't fit it on the engne pulley because of the space restriction with the Alternator SubFrame.

So, removed the first coil pack (Odd Cylinders)
Removed Passenger-side Alternator Pivot Spindle (130mm)

Alternator refused to budge !

It will rotate on the axis of the now-removed spindle but will not pop-out of the SubFrame.
I presume that there has been some 'pinching' of the Subframe's ends.

More investigation required
______________________________________________________
ETA

Why does the Block Valley look like a post-conflict scene in Teminator ?

Edited by Mr Cerbera on Thursday 12th July 21:30

[Mr Cerbera]

TwinKam said:

Paul, the rearmost holes of the alternator contain a split bush, clearly seen on the unused RHS rear hole in that pic. The bush slides to accomodate manufacturing tolerances in the bracket, allowing tightening of the pivot bolt without distorting the alternator casing. Assuming you can't get a drift onto it to tap it clear, a little rocking fore and aft should free it...
Rik

Rik,

You're a STAR !

Will re-focus my efforts (on maybe freeing that bush up) tomoz.

Thanks Mate
_________________________________________________________________________
BTW, Where on the "South Coast" are You ?

_________________________________________________________________________
ETA

Managed to use a wood 'lever' between the A/C pump and the Alt' to free up the split bushes.
Freed up, that is, to raise about 15mm, where it is blocked by the Throttle Bodies.

Thanks to Jools, I now realise that (at least ) one of them has to come off.
"Oh TVR, How you taunt me !"

Edited by Mr Cerbera on Saturday 14th July 14:24