Discussion
Looking for some help please.
Long story short, while I was having my engine refreshed, I decided to have the exisiting clutch re-lined. Why not - saves messing around later pulling things apart.
Seemed a straightforward process, unit came back looking good. I fitted it, but couldn't select all gears with the engine running. Initially I thought it would be a bit of air in the hydraulics or in need of adjustment at the pedal end. Sadly neither. The car has a RP slave.
Next I removed the starter to view the clutch operation. What I found was a decent gap between the flywheel and primary plate (about 0.75mm if I recall), but a relatively small gap at the secondary plate 0.3mm.
After a bit of discussion with the supplier, I decided to pull the gearbox out and have a look at the unit on the bench. Frustrating as I'd put the engine and 'box in as a unit, so now messing around dismantling it wasn't too ideal. With the unit on the bench I found a couple of issues.
1) The gap for the secondary plate was something like 0.3mm at one point and 0.6mm and 0.7mm the others.
2) One of the cover pieces on the inside of the clutch house (theres 5) was missing. This is what the moving part slides on rather than the casting.
Off the unit went to the supplier - they paid for the courrier each way.
Now its back, I fitted it and inspecting the clutch operation via the starter motor apperture its the primary plate that now has little gap and the secondary plate has loads.
The supplier noted they had setup the clearance for the secondary plate, fitted the missing cover and altered the angle of the diaphragm spring to improve the action. While on the bench I thought the secondary plate gaps looked to be 0.75mm which is the mid-point of what I understand, but it looks like the gap is more than 1.2mm when I check on the feeler guages fitted in the car.
Fitting the rest of the parts up and running it I suspect is a completely pointless task.
Thats the cross roads Im at with this thing. Quite tempted to cut my losses and put a brand new clutch into it. Slightly dents the budget, but so far this has been a "fools erand" so far...
Any thoughts or experience?
Long story short, while I was having my engine refreshed, I decided to have the exisiting clutch re-lined. Why not - saves messing around later pulling things apart.
Seemed a straightforward process, unit came back looking good. I fitted it, but couldn't select all gears with the engine running. Initially I thought it would be a bit of air in the hydraulics or in need of adjustment at the pedal end. Sadly neither. The car has a RP slave.
Next I removed the starter to view the clutch operation. What I found was a decent gap between the flywheel and primary plate (about 0.75mm if I recall), but a relatively small gap at the secondary plate 0.3mm.
After a bit of discussion with the supplier, I decided to pull the gearbox out and have a look at the unit on the bench. Frustrating as I'd put the engine and 'box in as a unit, so now messing around dismantling it wasn't too ideal. With the unit on the bench I found a couple of issues.
1) The gap for the secondary plate was something like 0.3mm at one point and 0.6mm and 0.7mm the others.
2) One of the cover pieces on the inside of the clutch house (theres 5) was missing. This is what the moving part slides on rather than the casting.
Off the unit went to the supplier - they paid for the courrier each way.
Now its back, I fitted it and inspecting the clutch operation via the starter motor apperture its the primary plate that now has little gap and the secondary plate has loads.
The supplier noted they had setup the clearance for the secondary plate, fitted the missing cover and altered the angle of the diaphragm spring to improve the action. While on the bench I thought the secondary plate gaps looked to be 0.75mm which is the mid-point of what I understand, but it looks like the gap is more than 1.2mm when I check on the feeler guages fitted in the car.
Fitting the rest of the parts up and running it I suspect is a completely pointless task.
Thats the cross roads Im at with this thing. Quite tempted to cut my losses and put a brand new clutch into it. Slightly dents the budget, but so far this has been a "fools erand" so far...
Any thoughts or experience?
Hi Paul - I’m thinking those pins that control the gap for the secondary plate are the issue. Odd how it seemed good when I measured the clearance on the bench, but after fitting it’s clearly wrong.
I do like the idea of testing with the dummy shaft in. Think I’ll pull it apart once more and have a look. So near, but so far.
The only positive thus far is the amount of super unleaded that I’ve saved.
Cheers
Brian
I do like the idea of testing with the dummy shaft in. Think I’ll pull it apart once more and have a look. So near, but so far.
The only positive thus far is the amount of super unleaded that I’ve saved.
Cheers
Brian
Paul - I think it’s the star washers as you point to in your post above.
I’ve got video of the clutch operating after it’s initial rebuild (when the secondary plate clearance was bad, but primary was good)
When I video the clutch operation now I can see problem is with these star washers.
This is one unhappy and unsuccessful clutch refurb. I will figure how to link to the tow videos for reference.
I’ve got video of the clutch operating after it’s initial rebuild (when the secondary plate clearance was bad, but primary was good)
When I video the clutch operation now I can see problem is with these star washers.
This is one unhappy and unsuccessful clutch refurb. I will figure how to link to the tow videos for reference.
As we are allowed to post YT links, here are a couple of videos.
This is, as stands right now. I've now watched this a few times on a proper screen and I wonder if there's two issues. One is possibly the pins, but I can't help but feel the retaining screws that control the gap for the secondary plate are wrong.Their movement seems way more than the 0.75mm they ought to be. I wonder if I can wind these in a turn or two in situ? Might just take up enough slack to then see if the star washers are cream crackered.
I'd also say the second press of the pedal allowed more movement, so perhaps a little air in there still.
https://youtu.be/u9UgwwAAvO0
The next clip is the operation when the secondary plate wasn't getting enough clearance (before the units second visit to the supplier).The movement between the flat nut and the primary plate's driven plate seems negligable in comparison to the previous video.
https://youtu.be/o-unWAziNFQ
Finally here's a photo of the star washer in situ - Is this the wrong way round? I looked at the other thread and wasn't quite convinced.
Cheers,
Brian
This is, as stands right now. I've now watched this a few times on a proper screen and I wonder if there's two issues. One is possibly the pins, but I can't help but feel the retaining screws that control the gap for the secondary plate are wrong.Their movement seems way more than the 0.75mm they ought to be. I wonder if I can wind these in a turn or two in situ? Might just take up enough slack to then see if the star washers are cream crackered.
I'd also say the second press of the pedal allowed more movement, so perhaps a little air in there still.
https://youtu.be/u9UgwwAAvO0
The next clip is the operation when the secondary plate wasn't getting enough clearance (before the units second visit to the supplier).The movement between the flat nut and the primary plate's driven plate seems negligable in comparison to the previous video.
https://youtu.be/o-unWAziNFQ
Finally here's a photo of the star washer in situ - Is this the wrong way round? I looked at the other thread and wasn't quite convinced.
Cheers,
Brian
The more I look at this, the more it looks like a new clutch is probably the best way forward.
It's a pity, as it looked a good way to extend the life of something that otherwise is functionally fine.
I'll perhaps take a shot at adjusting the three screws and see if that has any positive benefit - nothing to loose at this stage.
It's a pity, as it looked a good way to extend the life of something that otherwise is functionally fine.
I'll perhaps take a shot at adjusting the three screws and see if that has any positive benefit - nothing to loose at this stage.
Had a shot at making a little spanner for the nyloc on the end of the pins and ground down a spanner to make it thin enough to get onto the hex on the pin.
Result: I've ruinded a good spanner, and I'm going to buy a new clutch. Tight for space so it was really difficult to get a good purchase on the nyloc. I could of course pull the gearbox, faff with the pins but I think that's a bridge too far with this clutch. The annoying part is that by having the clutch rebuilt,
I have essentailly ruined a servicable clutch. It was neearing the end of it's life, and the engine was out for a rebuild. The efficiency of all that is long since lost, and spent money at it.
Brian
Result: I've ruinded a good spanner, and I'm going to buy a new clutch. Tight for space so it was really difficult to get a good purchase on the nyloc. I could of course pull the gearbox, faff with the pins but I think that's a bridge too far with this clutch. The annoying part is that by having the clutch rebuilt,
I have essentailly ruined a servicable clutch. It was neearing the end of it's life, and the engine was out for a rebuild. The efficiency of all that is long since lost, and spent money at it.
Brian
Thanks Ian.
I've fitted mine and it simply doesn't work. I checked the clearances prior to fitting (second time) for the secondary plate and they were spot on, However, with the unit fitted the clearance has increased. Makes me think the star washers have moved, and are not gripping the pins or the nutted end of the pin was not seated properly to start with. Suspect it's the star washers and pins.
Had hoped i'd have dismantled it this during the weekend. Hopefully this week, weather permitting..
Cheers,
Brian
I've fitted mine and it simply doesn't work. I checked the clearances prior to fitting (second time) for the secondary plate and they were spot on, However, with the unit fitted the clearance has increased. Makes me think the star washers have moved, and are not gripping the pins or the nutted end of the pin was not seated properly to start with. Suspect it's the star washers and pins.
Had hoped i'd have dismantled it this during the weekend. Hopefully this week, weather permitting..
Cheers,
Brian
gruffalo said:
Was your refurbished clutch done here https://clutch-specialists.co.uk/
I have one of there units in my garage awaiting mine to fail I know of others who have used them without issue before.
Nope, wasn’t from these guys. I’ll defer naming until I get the unit out and on the bench again. Will give the supplier an(other) opportunity to review. I have one of there units in my garage awaiting mine to fail I know of others who have used them without issue before.
ukkid35 said:
They really do need to be fully located/tightened
Buy a pack of Starlock washers for £2, pull it all apart, clean up and tighten the pins, then reassemble with the new Starlocks
Next, change the Pilot Bearing - or Spigot Bearing as TVR call it, it will cost you at least a fiver, and I can lend you the tool to remove the old one
Finally, and equally importantly, adjust the preload on the input shaft - sure that is a bit tricky as you need a set of shims that are not easily available
However, if it all goes wrong you will destroy the input shaft - and there are none available anywhere
It will also damage the countershaft, but that doesn't matter, they are cheap and cheerful at just $100 for a new one
Learn from my mistakes
It’s a good point Paul thanks - I’ve got a new bearing in mine based on your experience. Buy a pack of Starlock washers for £2, pull it all apart, clean up and tighten the pins, then reassemble with the new Starlocks
Next, change the Pilot Bearing - or Spigot Bearing as TVR call it, it will cost you at least a fiver, and I can lend you the tool to remove the old one
Finally, and equally importantly, adjust the preload on the input shaft - sure that is a bit tricky as you need a set of shims that are not easily available
However, if it all goes wrong you will destroy the input shaft - and there are none available anywhere
It will also damage the countershaft, but that doesn't matter, they are cheap and cheerful at just $100 for a new one
Learn from my mistakes
Thanks chaps - Studying it with a fresh head (not the demoralised and frustrated one) , the nuts are to blame and need adjusted.
Good call on the circlip pliers - I can borrow a decent pair of those. Certainly worth a shot!
Need to focus on it, get the thing fixed and get out on the road to remind myself why I like this car.
Cheers,
Brian
Good call on the circlip pliers - I can borrow a decent pair of those. Certainly worth a shot!
Need to focus on it, get the thing fixed and get out on the road to remind myself why I like this car.
Cheers,
Brian
No pressure - 
I wondered whether the most sensible approach is to take off the flywheel so I can mount the clutch to it on the bench. And then figure a way to operate it and properly measure it.
I’m wondering if the nuts are new and perhaps hadn’t seated in their recesses until I’ve mounted it up and operated it. Just a thought but hopefully I’ll understand more this week.
Looks like Friday evening might be dry enough for more scuttling around on the driveway.
I’d be chuffed if I can get this working as my ‘funds’ are needed for a set of tyres!
Cheers,
Brian
I wondered whether the most sensible approach is to take off the flywheel so I can mount the clutch to it on the bench. And then figure a way to operate it and properly measure it.
I’m wondering if the nuts are new and perhaps hadn’t seated in their recesses until I’ve mounted it up and operated it. Just a thought but hopefully I’ll understand more this week.
Looks like Friday evening might be dry enough for more scuttling around on the driveway.
I’d be chuffed if I can get this working as my ‘funds’ are needed for a set of tyres!
Cheers,
Brian
I used the gearbox input shaft last time - was easy enough as it's supported on my spare trolley jack. I woudl have bought a spare shaft or tool, but shafts are nto that common, and most tools aren't designed for a twin plate setup as far as I could see.
The bench test was really just to see it and adjust it as I previously checked the clearance when it was on the bench and I was happy it was 0.75mm. When fitted it obviously wasn't so I'm keen to understand what changed, as I didn't adjust anything.
Cheers,
Brian
The bench test was really just to see it and adjust it as I previously checked the clearance when it was on the bench and I was happy it was 0.75mm. When fitted it obviously wasn't so I'm keen to understand what changed, as I didn't adjust anything.
Cheers,
Brian
That looks a useful tool!
I removed the clutch last night, so it's on the bench ready for a good look and adjustment this evening. I'll take some photo's and share on here in case there are any useful outcomes from this, that might help others.
In the meantime I think I'm going to try and get a dummy shaft which looks much easier to do than use the gearbox' input shaft which is a bit unweildy with the box attached to it.
Cheers,
Brian
I removed the clutch last night, so it's on the bench ready for a good look and adjustment this evening. I'll take some photo's and share on here in case there are any useful outcomes from this, that might help others.
In the meantime I think I'm going to try and get a dummy shaft which looks much easier to do than use the gearbox' input shaft which is a bit unweildy with the box attached to it.
Cheers,
Brian
Hi Ian,
Partly there. I’ve got the clutch on the bench and I’ve adjusted it to 0.7mm. I couldn’t see any reason for sure why the clearance increased.
My only thought is that star washers settled slightly. That might make some sense as they are pushed in against the face of the pocket they sit in, but then get pulled in then other direction. Wonder if they pop/flex a little bit?
I’ve taken some photos so I’ll put them up later.
Anyway, it’s reset and ready to reinstall. I need to helicoil the lower bell housing to block holes as the threads are a bit poorly. That’s this evenings task then onto clutch fitting and seeing if I can prove it’s operation.
Fingers crossed!!
Cheers,
Brian
Partly there. I’ve got the clutch on the bench and I’ve adjusted it to 0.7mm. I couldn’t see any reason for sure why the clearance increased.
My only thought is that star washers settled slightly. That might make some sense as they are pushed in against the face of the pocket they sit in, but then get pulled in then other direction. Wonder if they pop/flex a little bit?
I’ve taken some photos so I’ll put them up later.
Anyway, it’s reset and ready to reinstall. I need to helicoil the lower bell housing to block holes as the threads are a bit poorly. That’s this evenings task then onto clutch fitting and seeing if I can prove it’s operation.
Fingers crossed!!
Cheers,
Brian
So, rain stopped play for this evening, and I've read this through again and now realise better what both Joolz and yourself are saying.
Thanks Ian
As it stood I think I was potentially about to make an error.
The photo show's it with the pins insufficiently tightened.
If I have this right:
The recess that the star washer sits in governs the open clearance for the intermediate plate and the secondary friction plate. The difference between the 'thickness' of that star washer's lip and the recess depth is that open clearance.That's a given, and not adjustable.
To your points earlier, the pins should be nice and tight. I've picked this up wrongly, thinking that I need to tighten them up a bit to close the clearance.
On that basis, if I tighten the pins up then the star washer is going to be too far down pin and will nip the whole thing up. To Paul's point earlier, the issue could then be that the pins get damaged as I pull it apart.
I'd better order some star washers...
Cheers,
Brian
Thanks Ian
As it stood I think I was potentially about to make an error.
The photo show's it with the pins insufficiently tightened.
If I have this right:
The recess that the star washer sits in governs the open clearance for the intermediate plate and the secondary friction plate. The difference between the 'thickness' of that star washer's lip and the recess depth is that open clearance.That's a given, and not adjustable.
To your points earlier, the pins should be nice and tight. I've picked this up wrongly, thinking that I need to tighten them up a bit to close the clearance.
On that basis, if I tighten the pins up then the star washer is going to be too far down pin and will nip the whole thing up. To Paul's point earlier, the issue could then be that the pins get damaged as I pull it apart.
I'd better order some star washers...
Cheers,
Brian
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