Lambda sensors dead?

Lambda sensors dead?

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mrniceguy351

Original Poster:

118 posts

54 months

Friday 13th May 2022
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Good morning,

On my 4.5 Cerb both lambdas were stuck on 0.00v . I figured this was due to them both dying, as apparently they do. So I ordered 2 new ones.

Installed last night and they both read 0.00v. Checking over this morning with a temperature gun and when cold I'm getting 13 deg C. With ignition on I get up to 27 deg on the RH sensor and 15 deg on the LH sensor. This is measured at the nut where it bolts into the exhaust. With the engine off and the ignition on I am getting readings (0.1 ish) yet as soon as I start the car they both go to zero and the adaptives start doing their thing.

I've read about issues with voltage at the heating element, is this something people have solved? I'm flat out finding the things on the wiring diagrams.

Has anybody else had this issue?

mrniceguy351

Original Poster:

118 posts

54 months

Friday 13th May 2022
quotequote all
The lambdas have 11.8v at the plug, with no fuel pump running. I haven't checked for continuity to the ECU yet.
The fuses are all good!

Imran, what TPS setting at idle did you end up with? I'm currently at around 14.5%. I did briefly try around 18% whilst idling with no luck. Maybe I need to try a higher TPS and actually drive it till it's hot.

Edited by mrniceguy351 on Friday 13th May 19:45

mrniceguy351

Original Poster:

118 posts

54 months

Friday 13th May 2022
quotequote all
Thanks Imran I'll give that a try today.

mrniceguy351

Original Poster:

118 posts

54 months

Saturday 14th May 2022
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mrniceguy351

Original Poster:

118 posts

54 months

Saturday 14th May 2022
quotequote all
Yes, the adaptives are maxed out.

The battery voltage jumps up as soon as you breathe on the throttle.

mrniceguy351

Original Poster:

118 posts

54 months

Saturday 14th May 2022
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Yes, I do understand that is bad. That's why I'm asking about it here.

mrniceguy351

Original Poster:

118 posts

54 months

Saturday 14th May 2022
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The sensors are three wire type.

I have had the TPS set at 12%, 25% and multiple values in between.

mrniceguy351

Original Poster:

118 posts

54 months

Thursday 19th May 2022
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Thanks for the advice everyone. The car runs and drives pretty well, but I'd really like to solve this.

I'm thinking I will have to make a needle probe attachment for my volt metre and probe the loom where it disappears under the coolant header tank.

mrniceguy351

Original Poster:

118 posts

54 months

Thursday 19th May 2022
quotequote all
Another question: on the diagram showing the ECU plug it shows each of the lambdas with an earth. Where is that/those earth's located?


mrniceguy351

Original Poster:

118 posts

54 months

Friday 20th May 2022
quotequote all
I do have an airflow metering device. How far "out" could it be? I have increased the idle to 900 rpm and it starts and idles fine, even when cold.

mrniceguy351

Original Poster:

118 posts

54 months

Friday 20th May 2022
quotequote all
DuncanM said:
If the car is running nicely, you could post a link of some logs? You'd get a lot more accurate feedback from that, than from a screenshot of idle. The logging is pretty simple to start on rs-ajp.
I haven't worked out how to do that yet, but the car basically tips in more fuel whenever it spends time in part of the table that it hasn't already maxed out the adaptives for. The lambdas are stuck at 0% at all rpm and throttle ranges with idle TPS set at anywhere from 12% to 20+%

mrniceguy351

Original Poster:

118 posts

54 months

Friday 20th May 2022
quotequote all
spitfire4v8 said:
You need to take some steps back

from your screenshot you already have a high TP values so you should already be running in a richer part of the mapping, yet you still have high adaptives and no lambda output. Those things should not exist together. There are several reasons why this might be the case, but you need to go back to basics and start checking some fundamental values.
So ..

Do you have an airflow measuring device? If so what is the airflow through the butterflies?
Idling smoothly at 970 rpm, with the adaptives reset.



mrniceguy351

Original Poster:

118 posts

54 months

Friday 20th May 2022
quotequote all
spitfire4v8 said:
Right, so you have lowish airflows and high throttle sensors so it definitely should be running rich not weak, all other things being equal.

So .. when you reset the adaptives does the engine revs fall, and then pick up as the ecu adds fuel ? Or does it barely make any difference ? or does it speed up and then start to lose revs as the adaptives increase?
It sped up when I reset the adaptives, 50-76 rpm.

mrniceguy351

Original Poster:

118 posts

54 months

Friday 20th May 2022
quotequote all
Yes I think I need to follow the suggestion above and make an adaptor to check voltages to the lambdas when running.

They do seem to read (around 0.1) sometimes when the ignition is on, but the engine isn't running.

mrniceguy351

Original Poster:

118 posts

54 months

Friday 20th May 2022
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Does anyone have any suggestions where to buy the male and female plugs for the lambdas?

mrniceguy351

Original Poster:

118 posts

54 months

Saturday 4th June 2022
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So I did this...


With the car running if I throw -12v to the earth for the lambda I get a reading. A very low reading (0.1) but still a reading. This is with the exhaust dropped btw, and the lambda sensor is only 50mm from the open exhaust pipe.

Tomorrows mission is to unplug the other sensor,pull that part of the loom into the engine bay, strip the insulation off and look at running a new common earth and maybe power wire to the sensors.

Strangely enough when I probed the red wire that also showed as an earth, I guess because it's earthed via the lambda? It also struck me that the wires to the sensors are tiny!

mrniceguy351

Original Poster:

118 posts

54 months

Monday 6th June 2022
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Who is the man? Me, that's who. The best Cerbera troubleshooter in all of Western Australia!



Fed 12v direct from the battery to the lambdas, and made a new earth to the back of the motor and they both came to life. But they were only reading 0.01v, so I connected the exhaust up and bingo, getting good readings from both. (The screenshot doesn't show it but I did have good readings from the RHS lambda as well.)

Now I just need to decide where to connect the new 12v feed. I have electric power steering so I was thinking of running it from there. A bit of a round about way to do it, but the wiring is all new and oversize. I will need a diode and it's a public holiday today so that will have to wait till tomorrow.

mrniceguy351

Original Poster:

118 posts

54 months

Monday 6th June 2022
quotequote all
glow worm said:
I had lots of trouble last year with "cheap" Lambdas on my Chimaera... caused by poor wiring to the Lambdas not being able to withstand the heat generated are you sure your solution will work in the extreme heat ?
It will work a lot better than the original tiny wires, and will be routed well away from the exhaust.

I have a new radiator and fans, I don't really have "extreme" heat under the bonnet.