Dyno Disappointment
Discussion
I have recently bought a new Cerbera 4.5 only find out today it only has 320 BHP and 328 LBS/FT Torque; what's up with that?
In my opinion that is grossly under powered as so far as the quotes from the manufacturers say. Is there something wrong with my car or is this standard? Nevertheless it’s not acceptable I feel cheated. I will be having some serious words with the dealer tomorrow. I'm severely p****d off!!! I can live with 10 or 20 BHP below but 100 less!!!!
In my opinion that is grossly under powered as so far as the quotes from the manufacturers say. Is there something wrong with my car or is this standard? Nevertheless it’s not acceptable I feel cheated. I will be having some serious words with the dealer tomorrow. I'm severely p****d off!!! I can live with 10 or 20 BHP below but 100 less!!!!
Sparks... that was the corrected figure.
Olly... with respect, part of buying this car was the fact it had 420 or there abuts. Before this I had an M3 Evo the manufacturer states 321, I had it dyno’ed and I was getting 320 BHP, before that I had an Audi S2, manufacture states 220 BHP, it dyno’ed at 228 BHP.
Granted it is fast, and the debate is not the speed. The argument is: The consumer when buying a car is able to make an informed decision and not to be misled.
When I buy a six pack of beer I expect six cans not four, I don’t want to be told how great the beer is to compensate for the missing two.
However even the high 300 would have been more acceptable but low 3’s, that’s bs.
I am even thinking of handing the car back.
Thanks for everyone’s comments, much appreciated.
Olly... with respect, part of buying this car was the fact it had 420 or there abuts. Before this I had an M3 Evo the manufacturer states 321, I had it dyno’ed and I was getting 320 BHP, before that I had an Audi S2, manufacture states 220 BHP, it dyno’ed at 228 BHP.
Granted it is fast, and the debate is not the speed. The argument is: The consumer when buying a car is able to make an informed decision and not to be misled.
When I buy a six pack of beer I expect six cans not four, I don’t want to be told how great the beer is to compensate for the missing two.
However even the high 300 would have been more acceptable but low 3’s, that’s bs.
I am even thinking of handing the car back.
Thanks for everyone’s comments, much appreciated.
It seems unfair that I would have to spend an extra £2,350 or more to attain less BHP than I originally bargained for without the Red Rose option. With respect that’s a p*** take.
I know everyone in here is an avid TVR aficionado, Nevertheless a p*** take is a p*** take. And for me to get less than the bottom of the range Cerbera (no malice intended to the 4.0 & 4.2 owners) is a p*** take.
I just don’t think this is acceptable given the money I spent on a new car.
“Stand up for what you believe in, even if you’re standing alone.”
I know everyone in here is an avid TVR aficionado, Nevertheless a p*** take is a p*** take. And for me to get less than the bottom of the range Cerbera (no malice intended to the 4.0 & 4.2 owners) is a p*** take.
I just don’t think this is acceptable given the money I spent on a new car.
“Stand up for what you believe in, even if you’re standing alone.”
Unless I get some satisfaction i.e. a realistic power figure to the claimed 420 BHP, compensation or my money back; I can assure you I will not “just get on with it and drive it”. And legally speaking it is in contravention of the Trades Description Act, therefore a criminal offence.
Trust me when I say I thrive when it comes to things like this, I’ve done it before and with much larger companies. It’s really not a problem.
The question is… why not, nothing to loose. Why should we be deceived like this? TVR must be laughing there a***s off at us.
Trust me when I say I thrive when it comes to things like this, I’ve done it before and with much larger companies. It’s really not a problem.
The question is… why not, nothing to loose. Why should we be deceived like this? TVR must be laughing there a***s off at us.
Maybe some of you guys don’t fully understand…
Cerbera 4.5 - Engine 4.5
4475cc alloy V8 engine
Capacity:
4475 cc
Max Power:
420 bhp @ 6750 rpm
Max torque:
380 ft.lbs @ 5500 rpm
0 to 60 mph:
3.9 secs
0 to 100 mph:
8.3 secs
0 to 150 mph:
17.9 secs
Maximum:
195 mph
What part of this don’t some of you understand?
For clarification, I bought the car from new.
As for performance my previous M3 out performed it. However, I have spoken to the dealer and they are going to get the problem rectified, I will keep you posted.
Kevinday: You are the one who is talking rubbish. Even though I was told by the dealer that the 4.5 had 420 BHP and I said I wanted that because it had 420 BHP as opposed to the 4.2 @ 360 BHP this is not the point, I never stated I wanted 18” wheels, now I don’t see 17” on the car etc… etc… (The Trade Descriptions Act ensures that descriptions of goods, prices and services are accurate and not misleading.) The underlined word is misleading.
I refer to my first post:
“I have recently bought a NEW Cerbera 4.5 only find out today it only has 320 BHP and 328 LBS/FT Torque; what's up with that?
In my opinion that is grossly under powered as so far as the quotes from the manufacturers say. Is there something wrong with my car or is this standard?...”
Well it turns out there obviously is something wrong with it, so all this bs about how, where, under what conditions was the engine tested is as I say bs. When they advertise these figures this doesn’t come into it. What… is one to assume? I see don’t assume for the 4.2 but lets all speculate for the 4.5. And you know what assuming is??? The mother of all…..
When you are advised by the reseller that you will be getting 420 BHP with the 4.5 as opposed to 360 with the 4.2 or 350 with the 4.0 and this is backed up both in the literature and on the official web site of the manufacturer. That is what one would expect. (Period)
I have had other cars that have been dyno’ed, they are in accordance with the factory figures. We are not talking about a 20 BHP difference which I agree could be argued as to the conditions the car was tested. This is drastically less.
(The Trade Descriptions Act ensures that descriptions of goods, prices and services are accurate and not misleading.)
Nevertheless this is not the point as they are going to rectify the problem; I just wanted to set some things straight.
Again thanks guys for your support.
Cerbera 4.5 - Engine 4.5
4475cc alloy V8 engine
Capacity:
4475 cc
Max Power:
420 bhp @ 6750 rpm
Max torque:
380 ft.lbs @ 5500 rpm
0 to 60 mph:
3.9 secs
0 to 100 mph:
8.3 secs
0 to 150 mph:
17.9 secs
Maximum:
195 mph
What part of this don’t some of you understand?
For clarification, I bought the car from new.
As for performance my previous M3 out performed it. However, I have spoken to the dealer and they are going to get the problem rectified, I will keep you posted.
Kevinday: You are the one who is talking rubbish. Even though I was told by the dealer that the 4.5 had 420 BHP and I said I wanted that because it had 420 BHP as opposed to the 4.2 @ 360 BHP this is not the point, I never stated I wanted 18” wheels, now I don’t see 17” on the car etc… etc… (The Trade Descriptions Act ensures that descriptions of goods, prices and services are accurate and not misleading.) The underlined word is misleading.
I refer to my first post:
“I have recently bought a NEW Cerbera 4.5 only find out today it only has 320 BHP and 328 LBS/FT Torque; what's up with that?
In my opinion that is grossly under powered as so far as the quotes from the manufacturers say. Is there something wrong with my car or is this standard?...”
Well it turns out there obviously is something wrong with it, so all this bs about how, where, under what conditions was the engine tested is as I say bs. When they advertise these figures this doesn’t come into it. What… is one to assume? I see don’t assume for the 4.2 but lets all speculate for the 4.5. And you know what assuming is??? The mother of all…..
When you are advised by the reseller that you will be getting 420 BHP with the 4.5 as opposed to 360 with the 4.2 or 350 with the 4.0 and this is backed up both in the literature and on the official web site of the manufacturer. That is what one would expect. (Period)
I have had other cars that have been dyno’ed, they are in accordance with the factory figures. We are not talking about a 20 BHP difference which I agree could be argued as to the conditions the car was tested. This is drastically less.
(The Trade Descriptions Act ensures that descriptions of goods, prices and services are accurate and not misleading.)
Nevertheless this is not the point as they are going to rectify the problem; I just wanted to set some things straight.
Again thanks guys for your support.
I don’t really care how they do it, just that they do it. As for “lucky” I would not consider myself lucky to have less power than what was intended for the standard model.
Before I knew I had power loss issues; I was thinking of upgrading to the Red Rose for even more power (440 BHP) on the basis I already had 420. So… if they do rectify it by adding the Red Rose where does that leave me regarding the 440 BHP or there abuts, without getting silly?
However Danny, 400 BHP and 380 LBS/FT Torque or above would be more palatable.
Koo
Before I knew I had power loss issues; I was thinking of upgrading to the Red Rose for even more power (440 BHP) on the basis I already had 420. So… if they do rectify it by adding the Red Rose where does that leave me regarding the 440 BHP or there abuts, without getting silly?
However Danny, 400 BHP and 380 LBS/FT Torque or above would be more palatable.
Koo
“One thing that spring to mind
that’s in America, they have far better consumer protection than we do, for a start a lemon list. Also competition is far greater over there than here”
What kind of bs is that?
No they don’t, they have the similar laws as we do which protect the consumer against false advertising.
I lived in California for nine years, and I must admit when I first arrived there was a difference, but not so much now. The real difference is within the mindset of the people in this country, they are too easily intimidated, always settling for second best, always making do, always being shate on and saying, “never mind I’ll clean it off”
As for the “lemon list” in all the nine years I was there I never heard of a “lemon list” is that a technical phrase?
However the point is; the law is the law no matter how big or small.
that’s in America, they have far better consumer protection than we do, for a start a lemon list. Also competition is far greater over there than here”
What kind of bs is that?
No they don’t, they have the similar laws as we do which protect the consumer against false advertising.
I lived in California for nine years, and I must admit when I first arrived there was a difference, but not so much now. The real difference is within the mindset of the people in this country, they are too easily intimidated, always settling for second best, always making do, always being shate on and saying, “never mind I’ll clean it off”
As for the “lemon list” in all the nine years I was there I never heard of a “lemon list” is that a technical phrase?
However the point is; the law is the law no matter how big or small.
Contrary to what you may have thought you read; I’m not aggressive… well only to TW@S.
I have spoken to the dealer and the issue has pretty much been resolved in a non-aggressive manner (believe it or not), which incidentally I’m happy with.
I suggest you get ARSED and read ALL the above posts properly before you post nonsensically, because I would respectfully suggest after reading your post you have not.
With respect all of your points have sweet FA to do with the issue. What the hell was the point of this post?
Thx again all, I’ll let you guys know the outcome.
Koo
I have spoken to the dealer and the issue has pretty much been resolved in a non-aggressive manner (believe it or not), which incidentally I’m happy with.
I suggest you get ARSED and read ALL the above posts properly before you post nonsensically, because I would respectfully suggest after reading your post you have not.
With respect all of your points have sweet FA to do with the issue. What the hell was the point of this post?
Thx again all, I’ll let you guys know the outcome.
Koo
Jamester: thx m8,
You know this is the first time I've ever posted anything like this on the web/forum. I did it because I love the car and I want it to do what it supposed to do. Why should I let someone dictate the car I drive due to false marketing? Or should I blame the faltered ones aka the spineless?
I got to thinking why should I give up on the car when the problem isn't the car, it's the manufacturers. If I/people are resolute, we will not be fearful (and I do mean fearful) in making a purchase in the future and we won't hear of stories like this and many others. And I’m not just talking about lack of power.
From what I have read on the forums, TVR has one of the worst if not the worst raps. I put it down to the faltered ones, some of them being in this forum.
Koo
You know this is the first time I've ever posted anything like this on the web/forum. I did it because I love the car and I want it to do what it supposed to do. Why should I let someone dictate the car I drive due to false marketing? Or should I blame the faltered ones aka the spineless?
I got to thinking why should I give up on the car when the problem isn't the car, it's the manufacturers. If I/people are resolute, we will not be fearful (and I do mean fearful) in making a purchase in the future and we won't hear of stories like this and many others. And I’m not just talking about lack of power.
From what I have read on the forums, TVR has one of the worst if not the worst raps. I put it down to the faltered ones, some of them being in this forum.
Koo
Skid,
What I’m trying to get across is this, it doesn’t matter how much or little you pay for something, it should be as describe. I did not buy it from loot (sold as seen) it is a brand new car. I agree in principle you do get good performance for the money. I did not buy it on that basis only (that it was a bargain) and even if I did, I would still want it to do what it says it does.
“Also quoting Ford/Mazda PR re recent bhp differences is irrelevant.
At any one time FMC has a reserve fighting fund of $14billion and as another contributor noted TVR is owned by 1 man. There is no comparison at all.”
All I was showing is that a company has an obligation to the consumer whether owned by one person or 14 billion. The same rules apply to ALL. This is not a matter of comparing.
“However reading your contributions you come across as a Muppet quoting Trade Descriptions and relishing a fight.”
I call it how it is. (If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, looks like a duck, chances are it is a duck)
How you can say I come across as a Muppet I have no idea, you seem to be the one who is stuck with an under powered car, disappointed and you accept it.
“No I was not party to any vebal conversations but that is how your posts read to a third party. If your car has been successfully fixed without confrontation and your dealer is genuinely pleased to see you then I'm happy as he will be your friend while you own that car. What you don't need is a gritted teeth smile of a welcome.... especially with a product like this!”
Stick to the facts, do not assume.
“You have just posted that your car has been fixed.”
Again stick to the facts, “pretty much resolved” means pretty much, not complete, almost.
“Pays your money, takes your chance.”
What the hell do you think this is, the LOTTERY?
I will not be posting to you any more unless you come correct. The idea of the post was not to get into feeble discussions like this.
Koo
What I’m trying to get across is this, it doesn’t matter how much or little you pay for something, it should be as describe. I did not buy it from loot (sold as seen) it is a brand new car. I agree in principle you do get good performance for the money. I did not buy it on that basis only (that it was a bargain) and even if I did, I would still want it to do what it says it does.
“Also quoting Ford/Mazda PR re recent bhp differences is irrelevant.
At any one time FMC has a reserve fighting fund of $14billion and as another contributor noted TVR is owned by 1 man. There is no comparison at all.”
All I was showing is that a company has an obligation to the consumer whether owned by one person or 14 billion. The same rules apply to ALL. This is not a matter of comparing.
“However reading your contributions you come across as a Muppet quoting Trade Descriptions and relishing a fight.”
I call it how it is. (If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, looks like a duck, chances are it is a duck)
How you can say I come across as a Muppet I have no idea, you seem to be the one who is stuck with an under powered car, disappointed and you accept it.
“No I was not party to any vebal conversations but that is how your posts read to a third party. If your car has been successfully fixed without confrontation and your dealer is genuinely pleased to see you then I'm happy as he will be your friend while you own that car. What you don't need is a gritted teeth smile of a welcome.... especially with a product like this!”
Stick to the facts, do not assume.
“You have just posted that your car has been fixed.”
Again stick to the facts, “pretty much resolved” means pretty much, not complete, almost.
“Pays your money, takes your chance.”
What the hell do you think this is, the LOTTERY?
I will not be posting to you any more unless you come correct. The idea of the post was not to get into feeble discussions like this.
Koo
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