The market for 360s...

[AdvocatusD]

I'd been looking for 4 months for the right car, and sadly the majority of the cars I saw were misdescribed or seriously overpriced (contentious point I know, but I was being guided by a respected independant inspector re this).

Not sure why I am posting (perhaps a case of sour grapes), other than to share what I came across to perhaps warn prospective buyers that a number of the current cars on the market are pretty poor - some have been around for months. A couple of cars stand out as particularly annoying to have wasted time and money over.

I saw an a 360 that is now with a dealer (I saw it with the owner) that I had inspected. After long conversation with the owner, the upshot is that it was described as "superb" and I had it inspected (given the proximity to the PPI and distance from me) to discover it had front end damage and the interior was in bad shape. On a follow up call to both dealer and previous owner, I discovered that the car has been passed to the dealer with no mention of the faults found. In any event, the dealer didn't mention the faults to me.

There is a TDF car for sale privately which I went to see. I spoke to the owner in person (and his brother) and asked if there was "anything at all" that he would do to the car to make perfect, if he was picky. He said "not one thing".

The car's engine was in terrible shape to the extent the exhaust was BROWN with rust, not even a discoloured silver. Scratches all over and damage from water in the boot. These were points a person with the thickest of glasses could have seen, but he didn't mention them. I left politely without raising a scene, but when chased for my opinion I told them frankly that it was not as described at all and they should change the ad to reflect that. Chap said he took my points on board. Came across the car in the classifieds today as I was browsing, and it's described as needed no preparation at all and just marvellous (paraphrased). Either they've done the work that it needed (which was plenty) or it's up again for some unsuspecting sod to fall over.

The only truly, good car at a semi-sensible price I saw was a low mileage Spider at DK Engineering, but I missed the boat on that one as I really didn't want a Spider at the time.

So sadly, this has meant I have turned my attentions to another marque for this time and have put a deposit down, collecting the new baby next week. Its more expensive that a 360 would have been, but the car is mint and I hope I've got it a fair price. Pity in way, I was really looking forward to a 360 for summer.

Still not got Ferrari out of my system, so I'll be back looking at 360 CS or 458s one day - don't like 430s at all!

Edited by AdvocatusD on Thursday 17th May 17:07

[AdvocatusD]

Sarnie said:

POORCARDEALER said:

So the really nice cars might not be overpriced ??

+1

Sounds like the OP is looking for a mint car for leggy car money.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion.

[AdvocatusD]

Cactussed said:

Something I've never been able to understand is people's used car buying expectations.

JDH1 said:

If you think all the good cars are too expensive, then that's an indication that you don't apprecaite the value of a good car.

I really didn't think I'd need to defend myself on this thread, but here goes.

I'd like to think that I've owned, bought and sold a few cars in my time and I have realistic expectations though I do like a bargain. In addition to my own expectations, I was being guided with reference to price and condition by not one, but two respected independants (I've said this before, but it appears to have been ignored). If the quotes above are not directed at me, that's fine, but if they are, this is the position. I can also assure you my budget was adequate, I'm just not inclined to overspend whether its a burger or a Bentley, and that is entirely my perogative.

What a "good" or "sensible" price is, is to some degree subjective. I am humble enough to accept I am completely fallible and not an expert which is exactly why I paid and used two experts to advise me accordingly. I am just an enthusiast trying to enjoy the used car market.

Cactussed said:

I can't comment on the car in question or its description but 'the exhasut was brown'? Honestly?

Honestly. The picture is actually kinder than the reality was.



I'm not sure why you would chose to question me rather than trust me given I was there and given you don't know me. I can't prove that this is the car I was discussing without invading the owner's privacy (I will not do this) or that I didn't doctor the picture, but I hope that on this occassion you will accept my word.

matc said:

astroarcadia said:

OP, we need to know what car you did buy before this thread goes any further.

Pics also please.

Yep, this.

Thanks for the enthusiasm chaps. I don't want to jinx it as I lost one a few weeks ago, but promise to put a picture up as soon as I have it (Wednesday!)

Edited by AdvocatusD on Friday 18th May 11:57

[AdvocatusD]

CooperS said:

However if the cars in the price bracket your looking at are all coming up with issues i cant see how they higher priced cars are over priced. Surely they are priced to take into account those below them.

Conceded, that's a good point. All I can say is that I spent 4 months and saw 11 cars (between 39k - 54k), only one of which I would have bought (and dithered too long and missed). I also missed 2 cars as they sold before I could get to them to view - they looked good and they were what I would consider a "sensible" price.

[AdvocatusD]

bromers2 said:

(PS i know the exhasut was only one point of your concerns with the car - but all the other ones could of been addressed for a small outlay of cash - would they of made it a better car ?)

I actually explored that actively with two cars, my having restored cars in far, far worse condition. I'm not afraid of a project in the least, but was told not to bother by the independant I sent all the (26!) pictures to.

GR1FF1F said:

I can honestly say that, a few weeks in, it's all I'd hoped for and expected.Cheers

Absolutely delighted to hear, enjoy! Sounds like maybe I had a little bad luck to go with a few bad cars. Thank you for the good thoughts.

[AdvocatusD]

fesuvious said:

A decade old car, and this you are worried about?

jeez, you need to lighten up. If you want a perfect car, all shiny all the way through, buy brand new. If you can't afford brand new, accept that it won't look brand new, all the way through.

Who the hell thinks they can buy a non restored 10 year old car and expect it to be perfect?

LOL. You've clearly missed the point but your indignation and advice that I should "lighten up" should make up for it. The point I tried to make was that it was described as "perfect" with no work required - it was not. However, if you think that's "perfect" and if it's alright to be described as such given the condition, it speak volumes about you.

For the record, I wasn't expecting the car to be brand new. That was the part of the conversation after it was described as being in excellent condition in the ad and during the conversation. He said it needed nothing more than once and I drove all the way there on that basis.

Thanks again to the majority of posters who weren't aggressive with their contributions, but I think I'm done with this thread. Anything I wanted to say with respect to who was guiding me, what I was looking for and what I found has been said. I have nothing more to add.

Edited by AdvocatusD on Saturday 19th May 19:12

[AdvocatusD]

Schnellmann said:

I thought he was complaining about sellers telling porkies.

Thank you Schnellman. You're absolutely right. That's the exact premise of my post and thanks for taking the trouble to read it properly. I just fail to understand how "reading between the lines" meant I was not prepared to pay what a good needs. Like you, I was more than happy to pay a reasonable premium for a good car, but was unable to find one on this occassion. All my previous searches ended with my finding the right car for less than the budget I had set, but not this time.

That's a gorgeous CS by the way. Hope you're early gremlins are now sorted? Think of me if you ever let her go?

[AdvocatusD]

POORCARDEALER said:

Read the first two lines of your original post.

And? It says "seriously overpriced". Where's the issue? I'm not sure what your credentials are but I was being guided by someone experienced and in the trade, but clearly not as expert as you.

Wait there, I said I wouldn't get drawn into this. So as tempting as this is I'll rest happy, knowing exactly what I said and indeed what most people here seem to have gleaned.

Schnellmann said:

POORCARDEALER said:

Read the first two lines of your original post.

I can't speak to the OP's experience but I came across some "perfect" cars at insanely high prices. The best cars are worth a premium but there is a limit e.g. I saw a very nice CS at a main dealer with 15'000 km but he wanted CHF 199'000 for it (basically 50% more than I paid). Are you suggesting that that car wasn't overpriced or that I was being unrealistic in not wanting to pay it? You seem fairly quick to judge the OP without knowing the full facts of his search ( I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt).

Cheers Schnellmann! That's the exact experience I have had. Changed to looking at another marque, faced the same issues, but with more fairly priced cars around and available it didn't take as long to find one.

Edited by AdvocatusD on Sunday 20th May 13:55

[AdvocatusD]

Apologies for the thread resurrection, but I did promise a number of you that I would post up pictures of what I went for instead of the 360 once I acually had it.



Very happy with it thus far!

[AdvocatusD]

To revive the dead, I have just seen a car that I viewed turn up again with a dealer. A call to the dealer confirms it is "mint" and they don't do test drives but I can come and see it. I reckon a visit would reveal it's pretty much the same as pictures online look the same + a little tlc.

They'd have to had spent a lot of money to get that particular car into mint condition...

[AdvocatusD]

Like I said, I couldn't quite believe I needed to defend myself, but ended up having to!

Anyway, bygones. Just thought I'd let anyone who read it know that one of the "perfect" cars I saw, clearly never sold and is still knocking about with a dealer in the end...

Edited by AdvocatusD on Tuesday 12th March 15:54