458 or McLaren?
Discussion
G/f has been trying to convince me that I should get rid of my 360 Modena and buy a Spider. I have no interest in selling the 360 to buy a spider version, neither do I have any interest in 430s.
I've always loved the look of 458s, so that's the obvious choice - if we ignore the fact that they cost ~£160k. Obviously the 360 will need to be sold, as will my AM Vantage, as will at least one kidney.
However, since money doesn't do much in the bank - and I have more kidneys than I need - I'm giving this far more thought than I expected. But ~£160k puts me firmly into McLaren territory.
Heart : I'd have a McLaren. I think they're much prettier than 458s, love the doors and have heard plenty of comments from people on here that they're probably a generation ahead of the rivals.
Head : 458s have held their value for years - they just don't see to go down. I don't want a turbo Ferrari, and I'm not convinced I'm alone in that - so I think they will continue to do well with residuals.
McLaren prices are obviously well discussed on here - however, some of the running cost is the warranty which is less on a newer car.
Depreciation is still a concern though - plus my impression is that it's easier to sell a Ferrari than a McLaren when the time comes?
I guess £160k puts you in 570s territory (obviously 540c is no good) - it's not even far short of the lower 720s it seems?
I know that some people have good experiences, some have bad - but my feeling is a McLaren will have far more issues than a 458. They seem to suffer more bodywork issues for one. Am I wrong?
I guess there are people on here who have had (or have) both? Any thoughts?
Part of me thinks I'm mad to even consider sinking another £80k into cars anyway. But aside from that - I am worried that although the 458 spider is no doubt a fabulous car - I'll still look at McLarens and wish I'd bought one of those.
But I need to be convinced I can afford to own one!
I've always loved the look of 458s, so that's the obvious choice - if we ignore the fact that they cost ~£160k. Obviously the 360 will need to be sold, as will my AM Vantage, as will at least one kidney.
However, since money doesn't do much in the bank - and I have more kidneys than I need - I'm giving this far more thought than I expected. But ~£160k puts me firmly into McLaren territory.
Heart : I'd have a McLaren. I think they're much prettier than 458s, love the doors and have heard plenty of comments from people on here that they're probably a generation ahead of the rivals.
Head : 458s have held their value for years - they just don't see to go down. I don't want a turbo Ferrari, and I'm not convinced I'm alone in that - so I think they will continue to do well with residuals.
McLaren prices are obviously well discussed on here - however, some of the running cost is the warranty which is less on a newer car.
Depreciation is still a concern though - plus my impression is that it's easier to sell a Ferrari than a McLaren when the time comes?
I guess £160k puts you in 570s territory (obviously 540c is no good) - it's not even far short of the lower 720s it seems?
I know that some people have good experiences, some have bad - but my feeling is a McLaren will have far more issues than a 458. They seem to suffer more bodywork issues for one. Am I wrong?
I guess there are people on here who have had (or have) both? Any thoughts?
Part of me thinks I'm mad to even consider sinking another £80k into cars anyway. But aside from that - I am worried that although the 458 spider is no doubt a fabulous car - I'll still look at McLarens and wish I'd bought one of those.
But I need to be convinced I can afford to own one!
Edited by davek_964 on Wednesday 26th June 12:41
av185 said:
Perhaps consider swapping your somewhat controlling??! girlfriend instead of your beloved car?!
Strange that you say a turbo McLaren interests you and yet a turbo Ferrari doesn't??
Agree the 458 is great but they are very expensive imo for an aging car.
488 great package and cheaper by the day. This autumn they may be cheaper than 458s too.
I guess with McLaren it's because I don't really have a non-turbo option. But it is a negative point against them - I would prefer to stay NA.Strange that you say a turbo McLaren interests you and yet a turbo Ferrari doesn't??
Agree the 458 is great but they are very expensive imo for an aging car.
488 great package and cheaper by the day. This autumn they may be cheaper than 458s too.
I like the 360 a lot - however, a g/f who thinks I should sell it to buy a 458 doesn't seem all that bad!
True. However, selling a 360 and AM Vantage is unlikely to be instant - and it's probably a good time of year to sell both of them.
Do the hardtop spiders really go up / down with the season as much as soft tops?
I have a couple of other cars I can use in the meantime (although one of those is a spider!) so I could have a gap in ownership and wait until the winter to buy if it gives a decent price advantage.
Do the hardtop spiders really go up / down with the season as much as soft tops?
I have a couple of other cars I can use in the meantime (although one of those is a spider!) so I could have a gap in ownership and wait until the winter to buy if it gives a decent price advantage.
Roof down said:
I have just looked to see what a mclaren looks like, I too own a 360, and I can tell you not just my Ferrari but certainly the 458 are things of beauty.
The Maclaren looks like some child has designed it, my goodness if I had the money no way would I buy one over a Ferrari.
Even the word mclaren reminds me of a child’s pushchair. No Offence intended to any mclaren owners, beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that.
Ferrari has history and legend behind it, mclaren apart from Bruce has nothing, it’s factory and cars are all to clinical.
Shows how subjective it is. I think 458s are gorgeous cars, but not even close to how good a McLaren looks.The Maclaren looks like some child has designed it, my goodness if I had the money no way would I buy one over a Ferrari.
Even the word mclaren reminds me of a child’s pushchair. No Offence intended to any mclaren owners, beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that.
Ferrari has history and legend behind it, mclaren apart from Bruce has nothing, it’s factory and cars are all to clinical.
I definitely think a 458 is a safer place to put the money. On the other hand, depreciation has its plus points - a 2016 570S looks pretty bloody tempting at £60k less than a 2012 458 Spider.
Scud doesn't work for me on several levels:
- One of the main reasons for changing cars is to go for a Spider. Even if there were 430 Scud Spiders, I want folding hard top not soft top - which means 458 or newer (or Mac)
- I have never ever been tempted by the more stripped out cars (GT3s, Scud, CS) - they simply do not interest me. Even if they cost the same as the regular cars, I would not want one - so I certainly wouldn't pay the high premium for them.
- 430s look way too similar to 360s to me. Driving experience is of course very important and I love the way my 360 drives - and I'm sure a Scud would be better - but I have no interest in spending ~£100k more to get a car that looks very much the same as the one I just sold
- One of the main reasons for changing cars is to go for a Spider. Even if there were 430 Scud Spiders, I want folding hard top not soft top - which means 458 or newer (or Mac)
- I have never ever been tempted by the more stripped out cars (GT3s, Scud, CS) - they simply do not interest me. Even if they cost the same as the regular cars, I would not want one - so I certainly wouldn't pay the high premium for them.
- 430s look way too similar to 360s to me. Driving experience is of course very important and I love the way my 360 drives - and I'm sure a Scud would be better - but I have no interest in spending ~£100k more to get a car that looks very much the same as the one I just sold
bertie said:
I can maybe help with some perspective here....
I've had my 458 Spider since new in 2013, and I got a McLaren 570S in 2017 which has now been swapped for a 600LT Spider.
In terms of performance the Mclaren is a generation ahead of the 458, the carbon tub is utterly solid so the structure is totaly flex free.
The Mclaren feels more modern and more usable, and I think they look stunning.
As has been said, the time to buy a 570 is at 18 -24 months old, at £100k for a low miles 2017 car they are are the bargain of the century.
However......
I love the 458, the noise, the emotion, all the usual stuff everyone says.
If it came to the crunch, I'd always keep the 458.
Drive both and go with your heart.
They're both toys and you've got to go with whatever floats your boat.
Thanks - exactly the kind of input I was looking for.I've had my 458 Spider since new in 2013, and I got a McLaren 570S in 2017 which has now been swapped for a 600LT Spider.
In terms of performance the Mclaren is a generation ahead of the 458, the carbon tub is utterly solid so the structure is totaly flex free.
The Mclaren feels more modern and more usable, and I think they look stunning.
As has been said, the time to buy a 570 is at 18 -24 months old, at £100k for a low miles 2017 car they are are the bargain of the century.
However......
I love the 458, the noise, the emotion, all the usual stuff everyone says.
If it came to the crunch, I'd always keep the 458.
Drive both and go with your heart.
They're both toys and you've got to go with whatever floats your boat.
I was intending to wait to test drive until I had sold the 360 & Vantage. However, I think I need to do it sooner rather than later - if I love the 570S, then I may use man maths to work out I can keep the Aston......
Roof down said:
But for gods sake just bloody enjoy now, if you have to ask about future prices don’t bloody buy one. Cancer comes knocking on the doors of many friends I know without warning.
I think that's a fairly simplistic view. Everybody knows that cars (usually) lose money, but even so - most people buy a car expecting to get some percentage of their capital back when they come to sell, and different people can afford to lose more than others. And seeing previous owners say they lost £50k in 6 months of 720 ownership is a tad scary.However, having said all of that :
I think all of us still have a bit of the kid in us who wanted the poster of the Countach or whatever on their bedroom wall. And for me, that kid wants a McLaren far more than a 458. I accept that it will probably lose more money, I accept that it will probably have more niggles and spend more time at the dealership (although my 360 has only spent about 3 weeks out of the mechanics since the end of March this year, so I'm getting used to that anyway).
It won't fit in my garage, and would have to be parked on the drive - but then, I don't think a 458 would either.
Obviously, as previously stated - a test drive is essential and could change my mind, but the car I WANT is definitely a McLaren.
My main issue at the moment is that I'm a lazy sod, and the prospect of selling two cars seems like far more hassle than I can be bothered with right now. Maybe I should try and do a 2 for 1 deal somewhere!
Kyodo said:
davek_964 said:
It won't fit in my garage, and would have to be parked on the drive - but then, I don't think a 458 would either.
So, you're talking about spending over 100k but wont spend a few hundred quid widening your garage by a teeny bit! 
If you can find somebody to make that wider for a few hundred quid, send them my way! I'll be generous - they can have £500.
I think that tomorrow, I'm going to visit McLaren Ascot to have a good look at their cars. They have 650s and 570s advertised, so I will be able to talk to them about both.
I would like to arrange a test drive - not necessarily tomorrow - to see if I really like the cars, and I intend to take my 360 to see what they would give me as a part ex. I don't expect it to be particularly tempting - but we'll see.
I simply can't bring myself to go through the hassle of trying to sell my 360 / Vantage and probably Alfa Spider too before going car shopping. So I'm currently thinking of an alternative approach :
Set the budget to ~£120k (which rules out 458s anway).
Have a serious talk with McLaren and test drive the cars to see if I REALLY want one.
Sell or p-ex the 360, and add a big chunk of cash to buy the McLaren.
Then sell the Aston / Alfa to put some of the money back.....
I kind of hope I get a test drive and don't like it - it would be a lot less complicated!
I would like to arrange a test drive - not necessarily tomorrow - to see if I really like the cars, and I intend to take my 360 to see what they would give me as a part ex. I don't expect it to be particularly tempting - but we'll see.
I simply can't bring myself to go through the hassle of trying to sell my 360 / Vantage and probably Alfa Spider too before going car shopping. So I'm currently thinking of an alternative approach :
Set the budget to ~£120k (which rules out 458s anway).
Have a serious talk with McLaren and test drive the cars to see if I REALLY want one.
Sell or p-ex the 360, and add a big chunk of cash to buy the McLaren.
Then sell the Aston / Alfa to put some of the money back.....
I kind of hope I get a test drive and don't like it - it would be a lot less complicated!
I agree that the McLaren will depreciate - and I also agree that the fact that it's the last NA means the 458 will <probably> hold its value better. But I think I've discounted the 458 for a number of reasons.
One of them is simply the cost. In the long term, it probably does make more financial sense - but in the short term, I can afford ~£120k a lot more than I can afford ~£160k.
The main one however, is purely emotional. I think 458s are gorgeous - far better looking than my 360, and no doubt far better in every other way too. But even if there was no cost difference - and no matter how good the 458 is to drive - I think that if I bought one, every time I saw a McLaren on the road I'd wish I'd bought that. If I bought a McLaren, I don't think I'd ever think that when I saw a 458. (Obviously the ownership experience my colour that view).
Speed is irrelevant to me - I actually think my ancient 360 has it about right, so both are far faster than I need.
Heritage is also unimportant to me. I know I shouldn't say that as a Ferrari owner, but it's not something that has ever mattered to me.
I do care about depreciation, and in fact never buy cars as young as the McLarens I'm considering. And I am concerned that I'd have money tied up in a car which would be difficult to sell - however good they are, I've seen too many posts about how difficult they can be to sell when people want to, and too many posts where people were glad when it finally went.
But, you do only live once. I could find the difference between the 360 sale / p-ex price and a £120k car (although it's particularly bad timing considering I've had to spend ~£9k on the 360 in the last 4 months) and as long as I get one with at least 1 year warranty (I'd be pushing for two), then at least the running costs are reduced for a couple of years. And if I lose money on it, then that's life - the 360 is beginning to drop too, although it's still worth far more than I bought it for.
(Oh, and it was my 50th this year - I'd planned a long driving break in Europe, but due to unexpected problems with the 360 it didn't happen. So maybe I need to buy a car instead!).
The weather doesn't look promising tomorrow so although I do still want to visit the dealership, it may not be in the Ferrari and and it's unlikely to involve test drives!
One of them is simply the cost. In the long term, it probably does make more financial sense - but in the short term, I can afford ~£120k a lot more than I can afford ~£160k.
The main one however, is purely emotional. I think 458s are gorgeous - far better looking than my 360, and no doubt far better in every other way too. But even if there was no cost difference - and no matter how good the 458 is to drive - I think that if I bought one, every time I saw a McLaren on the road I'd wish I'd bought that. If I bought a McLaren, I don't think I'd ever think that when I saw a 458. (Obviously the ownership experience my colour that view).
Speed is irrelevant to me - I actually think my ancient 360 has it about right, so both are far faster than I need.
Heritage is also unimportant to me. I know I shouldn't say that as a Ferrari owner, but it's not something that has ever mattered to me.
I do care about depreciation, and in fact never buy cars as young as the McLarens I'm considering. And I am concerned that I'd have money tied up in a car which would be difficult to sell - however good they are, I've seen too many posts about how difficult they can be to sell when people want to, and too many posts where people were glad when it finally went.
But, you do only live once. I could find the difference between the 360 sale / p-ex price and a £120k car (although it's particularly bad timing considering I've had to spend ~£9k on the 360 in the last 4 months) and as long as I get one with at least 1 year warranty (I'd be pushing for two), then at least the running costs are reduced for a couple of years. And if I lose money on it, then that's life - the 360 is beginning to drop too, although it's still worth far more than I bought it for.
(Oh, and it was my 50th this year - I'd planned a long driving break in Europe, but due to unexpected problems with the 360 it didn't happen. So maybe I need to buy a car instead!).
The weather doesn't look promising tomorrow so although I do still want to visit the dealership, it may not be in the Ferrari and and it's unlikely to involve test drives!
Went to McLaren at around lunchtime in the Ferrari, to have a good look at their 570 and 650 spiders.
I didn't get a test drive yet. They took some details of the 360 before we left and will call on Monday with a price. I will arrange a test drive in the week when they call. But not in both models.....
Started off having a look at the 650. From what little research I've done, this was my preference anyway. The car looked stunning on the outside, and had a sit inside and started it up. I absolutely loved the interior, and the seats were fabulous. Sounded great, although obviously that was just stationary. I am genuinely surprised just how great I felt sitting in this car. I don't think I've ever been in a car that felt so instantly 'right'. The test drive should be interesting!
After the 650, went to have a similar look around the 570. No offence to any 570 owners - we all have different tastes - but I really really didn't like the interior. The whole computerised dash thing is just far too PlayStation for me. I didn't like the floating centre console either. I started it up, and it sounded ok - but I don't need to drive this car. I just didn't like being inside it - and I already preferred the styling of the 650 anyway.
When I got the Ferrari out this morning - even driving it in the rain - I was thinking : I still love this car, I'm really not sure I want to sell it.
When I was sitting in the 650, I was a lot less sure about that.... It was a very lovely place to be sitting.
It will be interesting to see what they'll offer on the Ferrari, and it will be interesting to see how I feel after the test drive. Even with the slower market, I suspect I could sell the Ferrari quite quickly at more than their part ex price would be - which is something I was sure I wouldn't want to do before today. But I'm not sure that's true now.
Looking forward to actually driving it next week.
I didn't get a test drive yet. They took some details of the 360 before we left and will call on Monday with a price. I will arrange a test drive in the week when they call. But not in both models.....
Started off having a look at the 650. From what little research I've done, this was my preference anyway. The car looked stunning on the outside, and had a sit inside and started it up. I absolutely loved the interior, and the seats were fabulous. Sounded great, although obviously that was just stationary. I am genuinely surprised just how great I felt sitting in this car. I don't think I've ever been in a car that felt so instantly 'right'. The test drive should be interesting!
After the 650, went to have a similar look around the 570. No offence to any 570 owners - we all have different tastes - but I really really didn't like the interior. The whole computerised dash thing is just far too PlayStation for me. I didn't like the floating centre console either. I started it up, and it sounded ok - but I don't need to drive this car. I just didn't like being inside it - and I already preferred the styling of the 650 anyway.
When I got the Ferrari out this morning - even driving it in the rain - I was thinking : I still love this car, I'm really not sure I want to sell it.
When I was sitting in the 650, I was a lot less sure about that.... It was a very lovely place to be sitting.
It will be interesting to see what they'll offer on the Ferrari, and it will be interesting to see how I feel after the test drive. Even with the slower market, I suspect I could sell the Ferrari quite quickly at more than their part ex price would be - which is something I was sure I wouldn't want to do before today. But I'm not sure that's true now.
Looking forward to actually driving it next week.
LotusJas said:
Good to read that update.
Yes Sports Series (570 etc) and Super Series (650 etc) are very different cars. The biggest difference is the suspension though.
As you liked the 650 so much, if your budget will stretch to it, I highly recommend test driving a used (and heavily depreciated) 720S. It will blow your mind - honestly. It is 1-2 generations ahead of any competitor.
I must admit it's tempting and they did have one there. But realistically, I think it's out of budget - I could manage the 650 by selling just the Ferrari, although I would definitely want to sell my Aston soon afterwards. To go to the 720 I'd really need to sell both first. I think it's a step too far.Yes Sports Series (570 etc) and Super Series (650 etc) are very different cars. The biggest difference is the suspension though.
As you liked the 650 so much, if your budget will stretch to it, I highly recommend test driving a used (and heavily depreciated) 720S. It will blow your mind - honestly. It is 1-2 generations ahead of any competitor.
Hiccup number 1:
Currently insured with Dual Private Clients via AIB on a fleet policy. Called them this morning to see what the difference in premium would be until the end of the policy (start of Sept), and rough annual cost. She asked me where the car would be stored, and I told her driveway - it won't fit in the garage.
They just called back, and started with : They insist it must have tracker, and they insist it's kept in the garage when not in use.
Then there is no point in quoting, because it won't fit!
She is now looking at other insurers......
I know (from posts on here) that there are people who store them outside, and that there are insurers who don't require tracker - guess I need to make some phone calls.
Currently insured with Dual Private Clients via AIB on a fleet policy. Called them this morning to see what the difference in premium would be until the end of the policy (start of Sept), and rough annual cost. She asked me where the car would be stored, and I told her driveway - it won't fit in the garage.
They just called back, and started with : They insist it must have tracker, and they insist it's kept in the garage when not in use.
Then there is no point in quoting, because it won't fit!
She is now looking at other insurers......
I know (from posts on here) that there are people who store them outside, and that there are insurers who don't require tracker - guess I need to make some phone calls.
NFU won't even quote me. Before we even got to what sort of car it is - they are "only competitive for about 1/3rd of the UK, and I'm not in that 1/3rd".
I've called Pace Ward (broker) who I've been insured with before - they are getting prices but estimate ~£1,600
Manning were ~£1900 if I want 7k miles a year, £1600 if I want 5k miles a year. Must have tracker.
I will make a few more calls.
ETA : Aviva (via A-plan) - £2,250 with a £2k excess! Er - no thanks.
I've called Pace Ward (broker) who I've been insured with before - they are getting prices but estimate ~£1,600
Manning were ~£1900 if I want 7k miles a year, £1600 if I want 5k miles a year. Must have tracker.
I will make a few more calls.
ETA : Aviva (via A-plan) - £2,250 with a £2k excess! Er - no thanks.
Edited by davek_964 on Monday 29th July 15:36
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