This indecision is killing me!!
Discussion
Hi,
I am a new member, but have been regularly following many of the forums on PH for some years without ever really feeling the need to offer an opinion; or indeed tell other people that theirs is wrong because it doesn't align with my Orwellian-like diktat (McLaren forum of late?). As the Clash-plagiarised title suggests, I am dithering over the choice of which car to go with and have spent far too many hours watching Chris Harris et al reviewing the cars I will list later.
Context: We have got up to c£100k - no finance or part ex needed - to buy a car that both me and the long-haired general will be happy to drive, not just at weekends but also for the commute (neither very far) when we feel like it. In the past we have had an AM DB9, a DBS, 2 x 911s (40th Anniversary 996 & a 991 2S, Macan Turbo, Cayenne Turbo, a few FF RRs, AR Breras, VX220, '69 VW camper, Arbarth etc etc. Therefore, we are not aligned to any particular manufacturer and are happy to consider all options. I (we) will never track the car, but will be looking to do a Euro tour later in the year. Using the usual due diligence we are as happy to buy privately as we are from a dealer, which obviously brings some cars into scope that wouldn't be possible if we only went down the MD rout
We have just started looking and some of the cars we have short listed, if you can call it that, are:
McLaren 570s - Test driven and both liked its awesome performance, aesthetics and the fact it is a lot of car for the money. We realise it is a car that is mainly about the driving, but it possibly didn't feel (for us) a special place to be. That said, It is definitely in the mix.
DB11 - Not driven yet, but have had a very good look round at AM Hatfield. With the exception of the plonked on MB sat nav we like the interior and have warmed to the exterior; front end of the new Vantage not so much.
992 - Driven and performs as would be expected. Impeccable engineering & performance (as usual) and I think the looks have moved on, it just doesn't quite feel special enough. I realise the 991 GT3 is now in scope and like the looks, probably just a tad too focused.
California T - No doubt somebody will not be able to resist the temptation to suggest it is a hair dresser's car - so many comedy geniuses - but having actually driven one it is quite a car.
Alfa 4C - Going to look at one tomorrow with an open mind, as we have always liked the looks and loved the Brera, so will see how that goes. The Giulia QF may also get a look.
Gran Turismo - We need to take one out and see what happens. I am trying to ignore the negativity around Maserati ownership, as those that actually have them, or have owned them, speak very highly of the experience.
Lambos - I have no idea why, but as special as they are they just don't appeal to me and never have; LHG has always loved them.
AMGs - The GT is a possibility, but LHG doesn't really like the looks.
Bentley Continental GT - Admire but don't really want.
R8 - See Bentley.
I would really like to listen to the thoughts/advice/suggestions of others and promise not to be offended or infer my human rights have somehow been breached if some don't chime with my own thoughts. However, I will employ the methodology I use when dealing with other people's annoying pets or children and completely ignore anything intentionally fractious.
I am a new member, but have been regularly following many of the forums on PH for some years without ever really feeling the need to offer an opinion; or indeed tell other people that theirs is wrong because it doesn't align with my Orwellian-like diktat (McLaren forum of late?). As the Clash-plagiarised title suggests, I am dithering over the choice of which car to go with and have spent far too many hours watching Chris Harris et al reviewing the cars I will list later.
Context: We have got up to c£100k - no finance or part ex needed - to buy a car that both me and the long-haired general will be happy to drive, not just at weekends but also for the commute (neither very far) when we feel like it. In the past we have had an AM DB9, a DBS, 2 x 911s (40th Anniversary 996 & a 991 2S, Macan Turbo, Cayenne Turbo, a few FF RRs, AR Breras, VX220, '69 VW camper, Arbarth etc etc. Therefore, we are not aligned to any particular manufacturer and are happy to consider all options. I (we) will never track the car, but will be looking to do a Euro tour later in the year. Using the usual due diligence we are as happy to buy privately as we are from a dealer, which obviously brings some cars into scope that wouldn't be possible if we only went down the MD rout
We have just started looking and some of the cars we have short listed, if you can call it that, are:
McLaren 570s - Test driven and both liked its awesome performance, aesthetics and the fact it is a lot of car for the money. We realise it is a car that is mainly about the driving, but it possibly didn't feel (for us) a special place to be. That said, It is definitely in the mix.
DB11 - Not driven yet, but have had a very good look round at AM Hatfield. With the exception of the plonked on MB sat nav we like the interior and have warmed to the exterior; front end of the new Vantage not so much.
992 - Driven and performs as would be expected. Impeccable engineering & performance (as usual) and I think the looks have moved on, it just doesn't quite feel special enough. I realise the 991 GT3 is now in scope and like the looks, probably just a tad too focused.
California T - No doubt somebody will not be able to resist the temptation to suggest it is a hair dresser's car - so many comedy geniuses - but having actually driven one it is quite a car.
Alfa 4C - Going to look at one tomorrow with an open mind, as we have always liked the looks and loved the Brera, so will see how that goes. The Giulia QF may also get a look.
Gran Turismo - We need to take one out and see what happens. I am trying to ignore the negativity around Maserati ownership, as those that actually have them, or have owned them, speak very highly of the experience.
Lambos - I have no idea why, but as special as they are they just don't appeal to me and never have; LHG has always loved them.
AMGs - The GT is a possibility, but LHG doesn't really like the looks.
Bentley Continental GT - Admire but don't really want.
R8 - See Bentley.
I would really like to listen to the thoughts/advice/suggestions of others and promise not to be offended or infer my human rights have somehow been breached if some don't chime with my own thoughts. However, I will employ the methodology I use when dealing with other people's annoying pets or children and completely ignore anything intentionally fractious.
Thanks all for the comments, definitely lots of food for thought.
Markiii - I think the comment about Ferrari ownership is spot on. Like many others I never thought I would be in a position to own one and I think just having one parked in the garage (let alone being lucky enough to drive your own) would feel special.
Thecook101, MDL111 & ANOpax - I must admit I hadn't considered the slightly older Ferraris. Possibly due to concerns about running costs and large bills should there be an out-of-warranty issue. I am not completely risk averse, or maybe I am because I still have a BMW extended warranty going on my Z4 Coupe (keeper) that has never had any problems.
MDL111 - Thanks for the link, that Vanquish really does look very nice. I will see if I can find one nearer to home to have a look around this week as that could tick many boxes.
Justin220 - I absolutely agree with the 570s being the only supercar on the list, even if McLaren disagree and designate it as a Sports Series car; I have read ad nauseam the threads discussing what is/isn't a supercar. What makes something special is possibly more subjective.
We have this week off so intend to view/drive as many on the list as possible.
Markiii - I think the comment about Ferrari ownership is spot on. Like many others I never thought I would be in a position to own one and I think just having one parked in the garage (let alone being lucky enough to drive your own) would feel special.
Thecook101, MDL111 & ANOpax - I must admit I hadn't considered the slightly older Ferraris. Possibly due to concerns about running costs and large bills should there be an out-of-warranty issue. I am not completely risk averse, or maybe I am because I still have a BMW extended warranty going on my Z4 Coupe (keeper) that has never had any problems.
MDL111 - Thanks for the link, that Vanquish really does look very nice. I will see if I can find one nearer to home to have a look around this week as that could tick many boxes.
Justin220 - I absolutely agree with the 570s being the only supercar on the list, even if McLaren disagree and designate it as a Sports Series car; I have read ad nauseam the threads discussing what is/isn't a supercar. What makes something special is possibly more subjective.
We have this week off so intend to view/drive as many on the list as possible.
The 650S interior does look a little more suited to what we would like, and even McLaren class that as a supercar!!
I have looked at a few ads for the V12S but haven't seen one in the wild. We are likely going to Nottingham during the week and the AM dealer has quite a large stock, so will see if they have one.
The 1st world problem now is that the list is getting even longer - could be approaching Procrastination Central!!
I have looked at a few ads for the V12S but haven't seen one in the wild. We are likely going to Nottingham during the week and the AM dealer has quite a large stock, so will see if they have one.
The 1st world problem now is that the list is getting even longer - could be approaching Procrastination Central!!
CitySlicker said:
My other half doesn't like driving cars with an automated manual single clutch gearbox as they need more involvement to get it right. Unless yours is a keen driver I would discount all of them.
California T, DB11, AMG GTC, 570gt would be at the top of my list.
I wouldn't class her as a keen driver, so definitely something to consider. The other consideration is that she originates from Middle Earth (only 5' tall), which has ruled out a couple of the more mundane daily drivers we tried in the past.California T, DB11, AMG GTC, 570gt would be at the top of my list.
WCZ - Thanks, the F12 is out of reach and I hadn't looked at the FF as I thought that was out of scope as well, but the FF that has just gone on Autotrader at Imperials looks v nice. Does anybody have experience of Imperials as a seller, or indeed that particular car? I assume many of their cars are SOR?
What is the FF like to use in the real world - taking it on the commute occasionally etc? No doubt it would be ideal for a Euro tour; I will have to re-watch Chris Harris' review of his own FF.
What is the FF like to use in the real world - taking it on the commute occasionally etc? No doubt it would be ideal for a Euro tour; I will have to re-watch Chris Harris' review of his own FF.
av185 - Thanks for you thoughts and experiences. Like you I do feel that McLaren prices will continue to depreciate, possibly more quickly that some other high-end marques, for a little while yet at least. This does play into the buying equation in part because whilst to some £100k isn't that much, to us it represents a lot of hard work. Of course whatever we get will depreciate (we aware and content with associated running costs) and this is why the car has to feel very special to justify spending the money.
I can absolutely see the attraction of the 991 GT3 - wife not quite so much - and even though the car is undoubtedly very special, I think GG33's take on Porsche ownership is how we would probably feel. We enjoyed our 991 when we were driving it but didn't really give it a second thought when we weren't; I don't remember ever wanting to turn around and have a quick look at it when I had parked it somewhere, something I think I probably did every time I took the DBS out. Whilst I may plant my foot from time to time, I will never track whatever we buy as that's just not my thing, so fear such a focused machine would be wasted on us.
GG33 - Thanks for your input. The more we look/review/research I feel we are almost certainly going to end up in an AM or Ferrari. The 430 is possibly not the one, so it is likely between the Cal T and the FF. In terms of AM it is between DB11 and Vanquish, although I haven't ruled out the V12S.
I can absolutely see the attraction of the 991 GT3 - wife not quite so much - and even though the car is undoubtedly very special, I think GG33's take on Porsche ownership is how we would probably feel. We enjoyed our 991 when we were driving it but didn't really give it a second thought when we weren't; I don't remember ever wanting to turn around and have a quick look at it when I had parked it somewhere, something I think I probably did every time I took the DBS out. Whilst I may plant my foot from time to time, I will never track whatever we buy as that's just not my thing, so fear such a focused machine would be wasted on us.
GG33 - Thanks for your input. The more we look/review/research I feel we are almost certainly going to end up in an AM or Ferrari. The 430 is possibly not the one, so it is likely between the Cal T and the FF. In terms of AM it is between DB11 and Vanquish, although I haven't ruled out the V12S.
Bipal - Thanks for the taking the time to share you experiences and very interesting to read why you made the decisions you did. You have clearly been out in pretty much all of the cars that we initially considered, but the fact that AMs simply aren't for you shows our tastes probably differ as we already know the marque and enjoyed the 2 we owned.
I have seen the 981 Spider, but I just don't think it will give us the full experience we are looking for. Interesting that you like the 996 as we preferred our 996 40th Anniversary over the 991. I have driven an Exige and it reminded me of my old VX220, which was fine in my 20s but is too harsh for me these days.
The Surveyor - I do take your point and don't disagree about the subjectivity of each experience. However, I like to make informed decisions when I have the luxury of time to do so and learning from experiences (and mistakes) of others is something I personally like to do. I believe all our feelings and decisions are influenced by many conscious and subconscious influences, which in turn are fed by many intrinsic and extrinsic factors. Already in this thread points have been made by others that are probably relevant to us, which I wouldn't have considered until they potentially became an issue. The last thing I want is buyer's regret 2 weeks/months after a purchase because I got too wrapped up in the moment and the money was burning a hole in my pocket. I have been there and done that and vowed not to do it again, as Hegel said: "We learn from history that we do not learn from history". Mind you, he did also say: "To be independent of public opinion is the first formal condition of achieving anything great.”
I have seen the 981 Spider, but I just don't think it will give us the full experience we are looking for. Interesting that you like the 996 as we preferred our 996 40th Anniversary over the 991. I have driven an Exige and it reminded me of my old VX220, which was fine in my 20s but is too harsh for me these days.
The Surveyor - I do take your point and don't disagree about the subjectivity of each experience. However, I like to make informed decisions when I have the luxury of time to do so and learning from experiences (and mistakes) of others is something I personally like to do. I believe all our feelings and decisions are influenced by many conscious and subconscious influences, which in turn are fed by many intrinsic and extrinsic factors. Already in this thread points have been made by others that are probably relevant to us, which I wouldn't have considered until they potentially became an issue. The last thing I want is buyer's regret 2 weeks/months after a purchase because I got too wrapped up in the moment and the money was burning a hole in my pocket. I have been there and done that and vowed not to do it again, as Hegel said: "We learn from history that we do not learn from history". Mind you, he did also say: "To be independent of public opinion is the first formal condition of achieving anything great.”
MDL111 - That's great, thanks for taking the time and it echoes what was in some of the reviews I read last night and the videos I watched online. If time allows I will try to sort out a drive at the end of this week/early next week.
With regard to the warranty I will probably buy from a main dealer for the 2 years they give, although would happily buy privately/independent dealer if the car was in good condition and had a reasonable amount of extendable warranty left on it. I don't know if there are any independent warranty providers for Ferraris that are worth considering? Something similar to what Thorney Motorsport provide for McLarens.
WCZ - Thanks, and that exhaust....
With regard to the warranty I will probably buy from a main dealer for the 2 years they give, although would happily buy privately/independent dealer if the car was in good condition and had a reasonable amount of extendable warranty left on it. I don't know if there are any independent warranty providers for Ferraris that are worth considering? Something similar to what Thorney Motorsport provide for McLarens.
WCZ - Thanks, and that exhaust....
The Surveyor said:
You need to add a TVR Tuscan or Sagaris to your list, as Sid Vicious once sang.... "Regrets, I've had a few..... " 
As much of a weapon as the Sagaris is - probably one of the few cars that will continue to appreciate - I just don't see it as a car my wife would be happy to drive to work when she feels like it. Tokyo_mb - As attractive as they are I must admit to being put off Maserati somewhat due to the constant bad press they receive with regard to reliability etc. They do sound wonderful, but rightly or wrongly I can't help feeling I would constantly be waiting for it to go pear-shaped and that would take away from the ownership experience.
Andy 97 - The LHG would be reasonably happy to travel light when it comes to luggage, so long as she can have space for a small holdall then we should be OK. Clearly I will have to offset the lack of available attire by booking nice hotels . How we get through Italy without her buying more clothes is something I will have to workout - the answer could well be: at great speed!! Some clean pants, a toothbrush and some travel wash will be sufficient for me.
Chamon_Lee - I took an R out when they were first released and remember being slightly underwhelmed by the experience. Granted the weather was pretty awful that day and the car felt quick enough, but for some reason it just didn't put a big smile on my face, which was a real shame because they are a lovely looking thing. I am sure the SVR is a class apart and I have seen (only on the net) the Corris Grey one on AT with the red leather at Phantom that does look v nice, but it just doesn't quite make me feel that I should try to go and see/drive it - probably a reasonable indicator that it's not the car this time.
. How we get through Italy without her buying more clothes is something I will have to workout - the answer could well be: at great speed!! Some clean pants, a toothbrush and some travel wash will be sufficient for me.Chamon_Lee - I took an R out when they were first released and remember being slightly underwhelmed by the experience. Granted the weather was pretty awful that day and the car felt quick enough, but for some reason it just didn't put a big smile on my face, which was a real shame because they are a lovely looking thing. I am sure the SVR is a class apart and I have seen (only on the net) the Corris Grey one on AT with the red leather at Phantom that does look v nice, but it just doesn't quite make me feel that I should try to go and see/drive it - probably a reasonable indicator that it's not the car this time.
Bispal - As we are heading over to Nottingham to look at the FF / Vanquish / DB11, we can nip into Porsche as they have a 981 Spyder there. There is no harm looking; never say never and all that. Not sure how easy is going to be to convince the LHG that any Boxster is worth spending 70k - 80k on. I can drone one as much as I like, but fear all she will hear is Boxster blah, blah, blah......80k. Time is short at the minute with work and renovating our house which is a couple of hundred years old and looks like it!! I will let you know how we get on once we have been over there.
2002 - Interesting suggestions but for me the Honda NSX, as special and usable as it is, is still going to be a Honda. This is undoubtedly a ludicrous reason to discount it from the list of potentials, but the heart wants..... Contrary to the thoughts of many others I think the Alpine A110 is quite fugly and the BMW i8 has always been a non-starter for me since somebody pointed out the fact that from the back it looks like it is giving birth to a 911 (PSB).
Thecook101 - The 612 is just a little older that we would like. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, on somebody else's recommendation we are going to look at the FF and (for me not the LHG) it is more desirable than the Cali T.
LordOfTheManor - Absolutely. Whatever we get will be used and that is the reason for wanting something we can use for the commute when we feel like it. Whilst nobody wants to lose money, if I wanted to make the money work I would not be spending it on a car, I would buy a couple more rental properties.
Thecook101 - The 612 is just a little older that we would like. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, on somebody else's recommendation we are going to look at the FF and (for me not the LHG) it is more desirable than the Cali T.
LordOfTheManor - Absolutely. Whatever we get will be used and that is the reason for wanting something we can use for the commute when we feel like it. Whilst nobody wants to lose money, if I wanted to make the money work I would not be spending it on a car, I would buy a couple more rental properties.
F355GTS - I have not been able to reply until now as all new members keep getting locked out by the site due to some monkey business going on somewhere on PH, I can only assume by new members - this has happened quite a lot over the last few days. I have sent you a PM re your car on the email address attached to your profile.
TAZ40JAHRE - Ted, I have sent you and email and will be happy to answer any questions you have about my old 40th Anniversary Edition if I can. I did look at the 50th when they first came out and am amazed how well their value has held up, but it is not the car for us this time around.
DBSNOOR said:
Ping me if you are looking at the Rosso Maranello FF, it was my previous car
DBSNOOR - Apologies for the tardy reply, I have been away with work. Thanks for the reply but I have decided to sit on my hands for a month or two for a couple of reasons. Firstly, whilst I am prepared for the depreciation that comes with buying the majority of cars I am interested, the speed with which prices are dropping across all marques is quite something. I think that this will likely continue/increase for the next couple of months as the nights draw in and the temperatures go down, then I feel it will stabilise. Secondly, I fear I am going to be too busy to drive enjoy the car in the short term.
I will buy something that puts that child-like smile on my face this side of Xmas and promise to post some pictures and bring this topic to its conclusion.
Well, time to draw a line under this thread.
I was going to wait but took advantage of a day off and decided it was time to get a car bought.
After trying (or viewing) most of the cars on my original list, and a couple more, we both decided that we should scratch the Ferrari itch. As whatever car we bought needed to be a reasonable daily on occasion we settled on a California. Initially we were going for a T, but during a visit to a main dealer saw the T next to the older shape and both preferred the look of the older car by some margin - eye of the beholder.... After looking at the options we settled on finding a 30 model and saw a main dealer, 2 owner, low miles car with the Handling Special Pack, Daytona interior in a sedate (read boring for some) colour. It also leaves enough in the pot to pair it with a Giulia QF, which we also tested and both enjoyed.
We collect the Cali 30 next weekend after it has been serviced and coated with Gtechnig etc.
I doubt many on this forum will be interested in any pictures, so I may stick a couple in the Ferrari V8 area. Thank you to those that made positive contributions, and I am pleased it didn't degenerate into a spat between those with strong leanings towards one marque or another.
Out
I was going to wait but took advantage of a day off and decided it was time to get a car bought.
After trying (or viewing) most of the cars on my original list, and a couple more, we both decided that we should scratch the Ferrari itch. As whatever car we bought needed to be a reasonable daily on occasion we settled on a California. Initially we were going for a T, but during a visit to a main dealer saw the T next to the older shape and both preferred the look of the older car by some margin - eye of the beholder.... After looking at the options we settled on finding a 30 model and saw a main dealer, 2 owner, low miles car with the Handling Special Pack, Daytona interior in a sedate (read boring for some) colour. It also leaves enough in the pot to pair it with a Giulia QF, which we also tested and both enjoyed.
We collect the Cali 30 next weekend after it has been serviced and coated with Gtechnig etc.
I doubt many on this forum will be interested in any pictures, so I may stick a couple in the Ferrari V8 area. Thank you to those that made positive contributions, and I am pleased it didn't degenerate into a spat between those with strong leanings towards one marque or another.
Out
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