Lag Time for Supercar Prices to adjust to Market Conditions
Discussion
I am not in the market to buy or sell a supercar , but am curious as to how quickly Dealers and Private Sellers will , or are forced to , react to a major change in trading conditions .
I browse the PH Classifieds (too) regularly , and it appears that there has been absolutely no change in the advertised prices for most supercars .
And this despite what we are told , is probably the single most acute change in the world's economy in living memory .
Economists are now not talking of a V , U or L shaped trend , but rather a I pattern .
I have specifically asked about the timing of price adjustment , rather than price drops , because in theory , 2nd hand supercar prices could rise due to factory closures limiting production and delivery of new cars .
In theory .
I browse the PH Classifieds (too) regularly , and it appears that there has been absolutely no change in the advertised prices for most supercars .
And this despite what we are told , is probably the single most acute change in the world's economy in living memory .
Economists are now not talking of a V , U or L shaped trend , but rather a I pattern .
I have specifically asked about the timing of price adjustment , rather than price drops , because in theory , 2nd hand supercar prices could rise due to factory closures limiting production and delivery of new cars .
In theory .
Mac720 .. I fully understand that .
But the question was a different one .
As per the title , what do you think the TIME LAG is , and what are the factors that determine this time lag ?
Thank you Mac720
But the question was a different one .
As per the title , what do you think the TIME LAG is , and what are the factors that determine this time lag ?
Thank you Mac720
Edited by carspath on Thursday 26th March 00:01
Edited by carspath on Thursday 26th March 00:02
Great post Bispal .
But of course , your fall back , last car , is arguably the most fun real world car ever ; )
Ripping off Lotus was never so brilliantly executed
(Just getting the hang of these smilies -- they are quite fun aren't they -- just need to figure out how to get the coloured icons onto my posts now !!)
But of course , your fall back , last car , is arguably the most fun real world car ever ; )
Ripping off Lotus was never so brilliantly executed
(Just getting the hang of these smilies -- they are quite fun aren't they -- just need to figure out how to get the coloured icons onto my posts now !!)
Looking purely at the Time Lag issue , a few points appear to be coming through ;
1) The supercar market appears to be slower in reacting cf shares ( to be expected as that is a minute-by-minute correction ) , but also possibly the prime London property market
2) Cheaper cars appear to be correcting first .
3) Modern cars appear to be correcting more quickly cf classic cars
1) The supercar market appears to be slower in reacting cf shares ( to be expected as that is a minute-by-minute correction ) , but also possibly the prime London property market
2) Cheaper cars appear to be correcting first .
3) Modern cars appear to be correcting more quickly cf classic cars
The prices being paid for cars on-line auction site (s) ( Collecting Cars ) appear to be reacting fairly quickly to the market conditions .
So why do you think that dealers who are sitting at home with time to spare , are not quickly adjusting the prices of their stock , so that they can steal a march on their fellow dealers ?
Surely if they can off-load their own stock before they market gets saturated , it can only be to their benefit .
Or do you think that a large proportion of their stock is on SOR , so it is no skin off their backs to hang in there at their pre-Covid prices ?
Also , I wonder if this virus epidemic might alert some punters to their own mortality , and push them towards achieving their dreams while there is still time !!
This would increase demand , and so help maintain a floor for supercar prices .
So why do you think that dealers who are sitting at home with time to spare , are not quickly adjusting the prices of their stock , so that they can steal a march on their fellow dealers ?
Surely if they can off-load their own stock before they market gets saturated , it can only be to their benefit .
Or do you think that a large proportion of their stock is on SOR , so it is no skin off their backs to hang in there at their pre-Covid prices ?
Also , I wonder if this virus epidemic might alert some punters to their own mortality , and push them towards achieving their dreams while there is still time !!
This would increase demand , and so help maintain a floor for supercar prices .
OP here .
So 3 -4 months after Covid started it’s assault on the UK , we have some evidence of the time lag ( and the financial hit ) of this disaster on the UK classic supercar market , in the form of a Countach being auctioned by Collecting Cars .
The car in question is a Countach 5000 QV 88 1/2 ...... arguably the most coveted version other than the LP400.
The auctioneer’s description would suggest that this is a lovely ( excepting the ghastly red steering wheel and gear knob )low mileage example , and a couple of years ago , I would have thought that this would have been sold from a dealership in days , and at a cost of between £400k and £500k .
The current bid is stuck st £195k , with 2 days to go .
It will be interesting to see what it finally goes for .
Is there a way of telling from CC’s website if this car has reached its reserve ?
So 3 -4 months after Covid started it’s assault on the UK , we have some evidence of the time lag ( and the financial hit ) of this disaster on the UK classic supercar market , in the form of a Countach being auctioned by Collecting Cars .
The car in question is a Countach 5000 QV 88 1/2 ...... arguably the most coveted version other than the LP400.
The auctioneer’s description would suggest that this is a lovely ( excepting the ghastly red steering wheel and gear knob )low mileage example , and a couple of years ago , I would have thought that this would have been sold from a dealership in days , and at a cost of between £400k and £500k .
The current bid is stuck st £195k , with 2 days to go .
It will be interesting to see what it finally goes for .
Is there a way of telling from CC’s website if this car has reached its reserve ?
Edited by carspath on Sunday 14th June 14:35
£270k for that Countach is ridiculously cheap .
It would have commanded almost twice that price a couple of years ago .
A brutal reflection of the times.
And I think a more accurate gauge of the market than the pricing of current Lambo , Ferrari and McLaren supercars .
This is a bona fide , iconic supercar , not swayed by short term ‘’ latest and greatest ‘’ sentiment .
Production count was 1998 ..... although Lambo in those days had a very elastic counting system .
If it’s pricing is so badly hammered , God save the rest of the market .... especially the new supercar market .
To the buyer ( and let’s hope you are an enthusiast who has lusted for ages after this special car ) , congratulations, you’ll love it ...... one of 14 in RHD ( some of which sadly are apparently no longer in existence ) .
This is a very, very , very long term keeper .
ENJOY .
It would have commanded almost twice that price a couple of years ago .
A brutal reflection of the times.
And I think a more accurate gauge of the market than the pricing of current Lambo , Ferrari and McLaren supercars .
This is a bona fide , iconic supercar , not swayed by short term ‘’ latest and greatest ‘’ sentiment .
Production count was 1998 ..... although Lambo in those days had a very elastic counting system .
If it’s pricing is so badly hammered , God save the rest of the market .... especially the new supercar market .
To the buyer ( and let’s hope you are an enthusiast who has lusted for ages after this special car ) , congratulations, you’ll love it ...... one of 14 in RHD ( some of which sadly are apparently no longer in existence ) .
This is a very, very , very long term keeper .
ENJOY .
Edited by carspath on Tuesday 16th June 17:13
Yes , I agree cgt2 ........ for me too the 88 1/2 is pretty much the definitive REAL WORLD Countach .
The LP 400 is more sleek and more pure in design , but I thought that they felt vey fragile .
The later cars feel more ‘’ solid ‘’...... at least they did to me .
The QV’s have the Alfieri touch to their engines , and the rare 88 1/2have the Horacio Pagani designed side strokes.
Alfieri in particular was a true legend ....... Maserati 250F and the Birdcage , and his involvement with the QV engine gave it real engineering integrity .
In fact it was more than involvement , he designed the whole cylinder head , and modified the block .
Also Chrysler , with their financial clout , were in full control of Lamborghini by the time the 88 1/2 came out , so there was more money for better quality control , and for some relatively minor tweaking of the suspension geometry to optimise grip and handling at the extremes of the driving envelope . Not that many , if any , owners were likely to explore that region of their car,s performance .
Some parts of me regret the loss of the smooth dolphin belly of the earlier cars , but those side strakes do lend an air of aggression , and were functional. They helped cool the rear brake discs .
Looks are so personal , but the Anniversary, which was meant to hark back to the prototype LP500 , doesn’t really do it for me . Completely personal feeling re the looks , and mechanically the Anniversary cars should have evolved further , and be even better .
So , for me the final iteration of the QV variant , in the form of the 88 1/2 , is the ultimate Countach if you want to drive it .
The LP 400 is more sleek and more pure in design , but I thought that they felt vey fragile .
The later cars feel more ‘’ solid ‘’...... at least they did to me .
The QV’s have the Alfieri touch to their engines , and the rare 88 1/2have the Horacio Pagani designed side strokes.
Alfieri in particular was a true legend ....... Maserati 250F and the Birdcage , and his involvement with the QV engine gave it real engineering integrity .
In fact it was more than involvement , he designed the whole cylinder head , and modified the block .
Also Chrysler , with their financial clout , were in full control of Lamborghini by the time the 88 1/2 came out , so there was more money for better quality control , and for some relatively minor tweaking of the suspension geometry to optimise grip and handling at the extremes of the driving envelope . Not that many , if any , owners were likely to explore that region of their car,s performance .
Some parts of me regret the loss of the smooth dolphin belly of the earlier cars , but those side strakes do lend an air of aggression , and were functional. They helped cool the rear brake discs .
Looks are so personal , but the Anniversary, which was meant to hark back to the prototype LP500 , doesn’t really do it for me . Completely personal feeling re the looks , and mechanically the Anniversary cars should have evolved further , and be even better .
So , for me the final iteration of the QV variant , in the form of the 88 1/2 , is the ultimate Countach if you want to drive it .
Edited by carspath on Wednesday 17th June 09:51
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