Gallardo cat sucking
Discussion
andrew said:
Trev450 said:
Yes this is a fairly common fault with Gallardo cats.
I'm not sure what the procedure is for checking them, but I can thoroughly recommend Ricky at RE Performance in Swindon when it comes to these cars.
https://reperformance.co.uk/
the procedure appears to be to take the cats off and shake them !I'm not sure what the procedure is for checking them, but I can thoroughly recommend Ricky at RE Performance in Swindon when it comes to these cars.
https://reperformance.co.uk/
rattling noise equals too late...
Guess a professional pre-purchase inspection is an idea? Or would this be missed?
jeremyc said:
Full gory details of a rebuild following cat ingestion are here courtesy of 4321go.
Thanks. Sounds like the car owned by JayEmm (YouTube)?andrew said:
Hoofy said:
andrew said:
i know directly of one cat being sucked, with material being blown and ingested ( ! ), leading to subsequent head, piston and bore damage
i replaced my cats to avoid this possible pain
Standard new cats or sports cat? And how much?i replaced my cats to avoid this possible pain
it sounds stock until 3500rpm and 75% throttle, then it doesn't !
ALL the associated parts came to a total of £2275 + vat
Trev450 said:
Hoofy said:
andrew said:
Trev450 said:
Yes this is a fairly common fault with Gallardo cats.
I'm not sure what the procedure is for checking them, but I can thoroughly recommend Ricky at RE Performance in Swindon when it comes to these cars.
https://reperformance.co.uk/
the procedure appears to be to take the cats off and shake them !I'm not sure what the procedure is for checking them, but I can thoroughly recommend Ricky at RE Performance in Swindon when it comes to these cars.
https://reperformance.co.uk/
rattling noise equals too late...
Guess a professional pre-purchase inspection is an idea? Or would this be missed?
Buy it, hope for the best, have cats shaked at your local indie, cross fingers?
andrew said:
Hoofy said:
Trev450 said:
Hoofy said:
andrew said:
Trev450 said:
Yes this is a fairly common fault with Gallardo cats.
I'm not sure what the procedure is for checking them, but I can thoroughly recommend Ricky at RE Performance in Swindon when it comes to these cars.
https://reperformance.co.uk/
the procedure appears to be to take the cats off and shake them !I'm not sure what the procedure is for checking them, but I can thoroughly recommend Ricky at RE Performance in Swindon when it comes to these cars.
https://reperformance.co.uk/
rattling noise equals too late...
Guess a professional pre-purchase inspection is an idea? Or would this be missed?
Buy it, hope for the best, have cats shaked at your local indie, cross fingers?
That's one way. Hm. Is there anything in the computer that measures oil consumption?If I asked the seller, they'd just say something vague like not bad or fine or not bad considering the engine size, possibly because they don't realise there's a problem and accept that there is some oil consumption.
Trev450 said:
andrew said:
Trev450 said:
Hoofy said:
Trev450 said:
Hoofy said:
andrew said:
Trev450 said:
Yes this is a fairly common fault with Gallardo cats.
I'm not sure what the procedure is for checking them, but I can thoroughly recommend Ricky at RE Performance in Swindon when it comes to these cars.
https://reperformance.co.uk/
the procedure appears to be to take the cats off and shake them !I'm not sure what the procedure is for checking them, but I can thoroughly recommend Ricky at RE Performance in Swindon when it comes to these cars.
https://reperformance.co.uk/
rattling noise equals too late...
Guess a professional pre-purchase inspection is an idea? Or would this be missed?
Buy it, hope for the best, have cats shaked at your local indie, cross fingers?
if they're 99% intact, then they're going to work ok
and it's not easy to get a view inside them...
Trev450 said:
If the market demand is similar to the R8, and I would imagine it is, then spyders sell for less than coupes.
Oh right. I just saw spyders as more exotic/fancy/flash/expensive for some reason. In fact, any soft top version of a sports coupé. Mind you, I just prefer coupés for the style... with a sunroof!
That said, spyder Gallardos do look good with the roof down!
Trev450 said:
Hoofy said:
Trev450 said:
If the market demand is similar to the R8, and I would imagine it is, then spyders sell for less than coupes.
Oh right. I just saw spyders as more exotic/fancy/flash/expensive for some reason. In fact, any soft top version of a sports coupé. Mind you, I just prefer coupés for the style... with a sunroof!
That said, spyder Gallardos do look good with the roof down!
But certainly, cruising around Monaco in a Gallardo Spyder has to be a pleasant experience!
4321go said:
Hoofy said:
jeremyc said:
Full gory details of a rebuild following cat ingestion are here courtesy of 4321go.
Thanks. Sounds like the car owned by JayEmm (YouTube)?I’ve owned mine for almost 10 years now. And whilst it’s covered 117,000 miles, I’d argue that it’s one of the best in the country. It’s driven almost as a daily and maintained regardless of cost. Post engine and gearbox rebuild (done as a precaution, as although I’d decatted it previously, I wasn’t happy with the level of oil consumption caused by the bore scoring) Craig, the well-known dealer principal at Lamborghini Pangbourne declared that it pulled as hard as a Huracan in third, with the best manual ‘box he’d ever experienced in a Lambo. David, the chief technician at Pangbourne, with nearly 20 years experience with the marque, told me just last month that if he had the money, mine’s one of just two customer’s cars that he’d like to own. The other being a Diablo SE Jota that he also maintains!
4321go said:
The cat problem is entirely limited to the 5.0 litre (“pre-LP”) cars. The later 5.2 litre, Audi-built engine (the 5.0 was built for Lamborghini by Cosworth) has a completely different exhaust header/cat arrangement.
If you’re in the market for one, then any bore scoring “might” be evident as blue smoke on cold start-up. Or a cloud of smoke in the rear-view mirror when you really floor it! But really, the only way to know is to borescope the engine, one cylinder at a time, through the spark plugs holes.
The first pic shows the scoring of one of my bores, as photographed by Rick (REPerformance) using a borescope, during his “due diligence” whilst we debated whether to rebuild or not. The second shows the scoring more clearly, once the block was stripped. Meanwhile, my lengthy thread linked to elsewhere in this thread, goes into all the detail you’ll ever need as to what this is all about, why it happens, which cars it affects, etc…..
Thanks. Yikes. Have bookmarked that thread to read in one sitting when I get the chance!If you’re in the market for one, then any bore scoring “might” be evident as blue smoke on cold start-up. Or a cloud of smoke in the rear-view mirror when you really floor it! But really, the only way to know is to borescope the engine, one cylinder at a time, through the spark plugs holes.
The first pic shows the scoring of one of my bores, as photographed by Rick (REPerformance) using a borescope, during his “due diligence” whilst we debated whether to rebuild or not. The second shows the scoring more clearly, once the block was stripped. Meanwhile, my lengthy thread linked to elsewhere in this thread, goes into all the detail you’ll ever need as to what this is all about, why it happens, which cars it affects, etc…..
Edited by 4321go on Wednesday 8th February 18:40
4321go said:
Ps:
Every time this comes up, I get at least one indignant owner tell me that I’ve just devalued their car. And that theirs isn’t, and won’t be, affected
.
Let’s be clear: if you’ve got a 5.0 litre, pre-LP Gallardo with the original cats fitted, then the cats WILL disintegrate. And the exhaust gas flow is such that this material WILL then be sucked back into the cylinders. At best, this will cause bore scoring. At worst, the engine will be destroyed! Talk to any of the knowledgeable independents and they’ll tell you the same. They’re not trying to “up sell”; it just is. FWIW, the pre-LP cars have very old-tech cats. Each is about the volume of a small watermelon, whereas the later car’s are around the volume of a tennis ball.
But they’re GREAT cars!! The engine is way more charismatic than the later 5.2 (which, for the avoidance of doubt, is a COMPLETELY different engine). And the whole car is much more raw and visceral than the later Huracan (IMHO ).
If you have one, de-cat it immediately, or fit Larini Sport Cats. If you’re thinking of buying one, have a good look at the exhaust at start-up. They all emit a puff of smoke immediately after start from cold. But how long does it last for? Is it excessive? When the engine is warm, blip the throttle. Is there a subsequent cloud of smoke? If so, the bores may well be scored. If not, and if the rest of the car checks out, buy it. And then de-cat it as above.
And a little scoring isn’t going to be much of a problem! Although I didn’t know it at the time, my bores were almost certainly very badly scored when I bought the car with 42,000 miles on the odometer. That’s why I was pouring over 2 litres of oil into it, per 1000 miles driven. And the consumption increased to over 4 litres per thousand miles by the time I realised the cause, at 96,000 miles. That’s when I de-catted the car. It was only at 106,000 miles that I decided to have the engine rebuilt, because I just wasn’t happy pouring all that oil in any more. Bore scoring didn’t really affect the power output, although the smoking had become rather embarrassing by that point. But leaving the old-tech cats in place just could lead to catastrophic failure (as has been the case for a good few owners; ask Rick at REP, Sunny at BHP or the chaps at BDM).
Thanks for the tips.Every time this comes up, I get at least one indignant owner tell me that I’ve just devalued their car. And that theirs isn’t, and won’t be, affected
.Let’s be clear: if you’ve got a 5.0 litre, pre-LP Gallardo with the original cats fitted, then the cats WILL disintegrate. And the exhaust gas flow is such that this material WILL then be sucked back into the cylinders. At best, this will cause bore scoring. At worst, the engine will be destroyed! Talk to any of the knowledgeable independents and they’ll tell you the same. They’re not trying to “up sell”; it just is. FWIW, the pre-LP cars have very old-tech cats. Each is about the volume of a small watermelon, whereas the later car’s are around the volume of a tennis ball.
But they’re GREAT cars!! The engine is way more charismatic than the later 5.2 (which, for the avoidance of doubt, is a COMPLETELY different engine). And the whole car is much more raw and visceral than the later Huracan (IMHO
).If you have one, de-cat it immediately, or fit Larini Sport Cats. If you’re thinking of buying one, have a good look at the exhaust at start-up. They all emit a puff of smoke immediately after start from cold. But how long does it last for? Is it excessive? When the engine is warm, blip the throttle. Is there a subsequent cloud of smoke? If so, the bores may well be scored. If not, and if the rest of the car checks out, buy it. And then de-cat it as above.
And a little scoring isn’t going to be much of a problem! Although I didn’t know it at the time, my bores were almost certainly very badly scored when I bought the car with 42,000 miles on the odometer. That’s why I was pouring over 2 litres of oil into it, per 1000 miles driven. And the consumption increased to over 4 litres per thousand miles by the time I realised the cause, at 96,000 miles. That’s when I de-catted the car. It was only at 106,000 miles that I decided to have the engine rebuilt, because I just wasn’t happy pouring all that oil in any more. Bore scoring didn’t really affect the power output, although the smoking had become rather embarrassing by that point. But leaving the old-tech cats in place just could lead to catastrophic failure (as has been the case for a good few owners; ask Rick at REP, Sunny at BHP or the chaps at BDM).
eye121 said:
Just to add my ha'penny worth I've had my 2004 manual coupe for five years. It was given 'cat replacement pipes' at 25K miles and now stands at 46K miles with oil use about 0.25L/1000 miles. As has been said above these are fantastic cars with a great sound from any one of many aftermarket exhausts and a lovely slick manual with the latest clutches. I'm sure that you can buy a troublesome car and have a nightmare but they do seem to me to be a fairly straightforward Italian. One has to spend to keep them in the right condition but it's not a chore because problems are few and fairly simple to fix in my experience. 4321go has much more extensive experience given his mileage. I would always advise buying one of the many cars which have had early cat replacements.
Thanks for the reply. What kind of expense have you had in the 20k you've done?Also, how do you know the cat has been replaced? Not seeing it mentioned at all in ads.
eye121 said:
Hi Hoofy
My 'bypass pipes' were fitted when the car got its Tubi exhaust. It's obvious in the engine bay as well as in the history. When I bought it I didn't appreciate the importance of no, or aftermarket, cats but I was lucky. I think that many of us are rather sensitive about cats now as the MOT may insist on it. You may have to ask a vendor quietly.
As for expenses over five years:
Annual servicing with plugs on mileage. A leaky oil cooler at about £1K including Lambo tax but not VAT. All connecting pipes necessary of course. The very common power steering drive shaft, which costs buttons but inevitably leads to lots of unique pipes only available from Lambo and not costing buttons. At that point you are introduced to the wonderful world of Lambo recalls and the complete redesign of the PAS circuit more than a decade ago. The poorly designed pivot bolt on the top of the gearbox for that part of the gear selection mechanism came out and threatened to halt progress. It's a common and recurrent problem and if it happens again we'll make a modification. I've had work to remap fault codes out because of the lack of cats but this is done for good now. Age related air con and heating replacements with a new HVS unit and new compressor, dryer and radiator. I've had plenty of paintwork to address alloy paint bubbling and done properly it's not cheap. All the Gallardos I previously viewed had this.
We're (well, I'm paying for it) shortly going to move onto the underside and replace bushes, recondition shockers and perhaps new front discs and pads. Mine doesn't have front lift and I agree with 4321go that that doesn't get in the way of daily use and touring. I wouldn't want to stretch my masculine pride by adding it all up but it's not been expensive given the width of the grin during every journey. As you can probably imagine I hope that it's a keeper because nothing else at the price would give the same combination of sound, security, speed and positive reactions from almost everyone.
Thanks, interesting stuff. I won't insist that you add things up. I can see that as it starts to age, things are going to wear out if you use it.My 'bypass pipes' were fitted when the car got its Tubi exhaust. It's obvious in the engine bay as well as in the history. When I bought it I didn't appreciate the importance of no, or aftermarket, cats but I was lucky. I think that many of us are rather sensitive about cats now as the MOT may insist on it. You may have to ask a vendor quietly.
As for expenses over five years:
Annual servicing with plugs on mileage. A leaky oil cooler at about £1K including Lambo tax but not VAT. All connecting pipes necessary of course. The very common power steering drive shaft, which costs buttons but inevitably leads to lots of unique pipes only available from Lambo and not costing buttons. At that point you are introduced to the wonderful world of Lambo recalls and the complete redesign of the PAS circuit more than a decade ago. The poorly designed pivot bolt on the top of the gearbox for that part of the gear selection mechanism came out and threatened to halt progress. It's a common and recurrent problem and if it happens again we'll make a modification. I've had work to remap fault codes out because of the lack of cats but this is done for good now. Age related air con and heating replacements with a new HVS unit and new compressor, dryer and radiator. I've had plenty of paintwork to address alloy paint bubbling and done properly it's not cheap. All the Gallardos I previously viewed had this.
We're (well, I'm paying for it) shortly going to move onto the underside and replace bushes, recondition shockers and perhaps new front discs and pads. Mine doesn't have front lift and I agree with 4321go that that doesn't get in the way of daily use and touring. I wouldn't want to stretch my masculine pride by adding it all up but it's not been expensive given the width of the grin during every journey. As you can probably imagine I hope that it's a keeper because nothing else at the price would give the same combination of sound, security, speed and positive reactions from almost everyone.
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