Low Compression

[klmorrell]

Hello

This is my first post after several years of lurking, unfortunately it is a post of woe and stupidity.

3 weeks ago I set off with my Mondeo 2.5t and caravan towards Sherwood forest from near warrington. my intention was to go m6-a500 ect however the m6 was at a standstill so I ended up going over the Pennines via buxton, which was something I really didn't want to do.

Just after leaving chesterfield the car died without warning. upon opening the bonnet I discovered the expansion cap sat beside the tank, where I had forgot to put it back on after doing all my pre caravanning car checks (stupidty)

The temp gauge however never went over normal in all the journey so I had no idea of what I had done.

the car is now with a friendly mechanic who was done a compression test, using a brand new 800amp battery. he says that 4 cylinders are reading 25 and the 5th (nearest cambelt is about 45 psi. he said no water came out of the spark plug holes during the test. However the oil level has gone up over max but doesn't look contaminated.

my issue is with the value of the car, it has a trade in of £2000, retail about £4000 however its easy to say that but if no one wants to buy it then its irrelevant.

So, best case is head/head gasket = £600-£700 but my question is how likely is it that something other or as well as the head is goosed?

Thanks

[klmorrell]

Another thing that I thought unusual at the time of engine failure was , the battery low light came on, this is on a 12mth old silver series 800amp battery that was fully charged only days before. I know it could just be coincidence that the battery also died at the same time, but never-the-less it seems strange.

i don't know how likely a head gasket is to blow across all 5 cylinders? i can imagine that the journey over the Pennines with a caravan is very strenuous on an engine and as the cap was not on then over the course of 50 miles it would of evaporated much of its water, however when opening the bonnet the expansion tank was still about a third full or 2 inches below min.

What i am trying to find out is how likely something else has gone round as regards to the bottom end ?

.

[klmorrell]

The car just lost power over say a couple of hundred yards then stopped, those psi figures are correct 25 on 4 cylinders 45 on the 5th, we redid it this morning on the brand new battery.

and yes there was still water in the tank.

once home, I refilled the tank but since doing a couple of compression test the tank is now empty

[klmorrell]

the compression test was done on wot.

I am not sure what a healthy engine should be producing in psi but I'm pretty sure it should be more than what it is atm.

[klmorrell]

I'm confident the mechanic performed the compression test correctly, I am no mechanic but I can do a compression test correctly on my old lotus, so I am happy that those readings are correct.

I helped him this morning retest the highest psi cylinder, and he showed me through the windscreen as I cranked the engine over and it was barely 50 psi.

My conundrum is, removing the head @ about £200 might not answer all the questions, realistically it is an engine out job, to check bottom end ?

this is my reason for coming here, to see how likely the bottom end is also knackered based on the info I have provided. I am already assuming the head is warped and head gasket blown.

Thank you all for your responses

[klmorrell]

I think you might of missed the bit about me towing a 1.4 tonne caravan from warrington to chesterfield over the peninnes without the expansion tank cap on.

That is why I think the engine just died.,

There was no warning signs, ie the temp gauge sat on normal all the way, it didn't smell and there was no obvious steaming from the engine.

now we have only 25psi on 4 cylinders and 45 on the fifth. the car obviously turns over but will not start

All I am trying to figure out is how likely this might have damaged more than just the head and head gasket.

bearing in mind the trade in value of £2000, , is there not an known issue with these engines and liners cracking ?

Anyway thanks again

[klmorrell]

One of the things the mechanic noticed whilst doing the compression test was how the engine didn't seem to spin any quicker with all the spark plugs removed, the cambelt ect is about 12mths old and is still on and taught.

This is why for now we have not gone further, he seems to think because of that something bottom end might be damaged.

[klmorrell]

just text the mechanic, he has already checked cambelt, and a leak down test was next on his list. but as I just said he expected the engine to spin faster without the plugs in and it didn't, hence him thinking it could be more than head related.

My problem is how far do I go trying to find out, this is what I meant when say stuck between a rock and a hard place. And why I thought I would ask here

Thanks again

[klmorrell]

Another update

mechanic been chatting to st specialist, this engine does have issues with cracked liners, but is rare for all to go at once.

however he said they could of ovaled due to heat



i

[klmorrell]

Why are people assuming the compression data is wrong ? the compression test data is correct, and it has nothing to do with cambelts, but then again why would it have anything to do with the cambelt, which was replaced 12mths ago and has been perfectly fine.

I mean come on think about it.

I have just dragged a 1.4 tonne caravan over the peninnes for 60 miles and 3hrs with no expansion cap on. then the engine lost power and stopped, followed by an low battery light

whats more likely to have happened in those circumstances ? the engine overheating or the cambelt snapping.

I am no mechanic but on opening the bonnet even I knew the engine had cooked itself

my question here was "how likely would there be serious bottom end damage based on what just happened. I had already assumed the head and headgasket were toast and just that would of been a best I could of hoped for.

after doing the compression test and noticing how laboured the engine spun my mechanic suggested bottom end, and low and behold he was right.

[klmorrell]

Boosted LS1 said:

Oil in the cylinder won't have reached normal readings. This engine's goosed or the mechanic's cranking the engine with a spanner.

Your getting closer. The battery low light on, is another clue, timing belt is on and perfectly timed up,

The mechanic couldn't rotate the engine with the spark plugs out using a spanner/ratchet.

He needed a 2foot breaker bar.

[klmorrell]

I'm sorry but, the light was a "low battery" light, meaning the battery was nearly dead.

the compression test was done with this battery fully charged, this is a 12mth old 760amp silver series battery, after the compression test the battery was down to 244amp

when he tried to rotate engine by hand it was too tight for a normal ratchet, he had to use an extension,

the engine is partially seized, and trying to start a partially seized engine or keep a seizing engine running will quickly drain a battery.

[klmorrell]

also the head gasket has blown, so I imagine doing a compression test on a partially seized engine with a blown headgasket could quite easily account for such low psi figures ?

[klmorrell]

This is the battery charging light , that every cars has ? just want to make sure, its the little picture of a red battery ?

[klmorrell]

Now here is a picture of a the "low battery" light that came on when the engine originally stopped.

it is telling you your battery is tired and no it has nothing to do with the fobs.

My mechanic new straight off the bat something wasn't right bottom end, the compression test was the 1st thing he did and that pretty much added to his suspicion. by the way the engine didn't spin freely

The good battery and the power from the starter was able to spin the engine , albeit not as fast as normal.

he then did a leak down test, but had to use the extension to bring up tdc.

He didn't do the compression test already knowing that the headgasket had failed or the bottom end was toast,

Seriously some of the comments on this are laughable.

my op pretty much gave most people an idea if they read it and understood it and used some logic.

think I will go back to 5 mores years of lurking.

[klmorrell]

in my defence that information was supplied in my 2nd post, 10 mins after the 1st.

[klmorrell]

you are correct regarding those bits of information not being in my very 1st post and my 2nd post which as I said was within a few minutes, as the mechanic hadn't even looked at the car at that point.

My 1st/2nd posts were about merely ascertaining how much if any damage could of been done to the bottom end ,

assuming that due to the situation/conditions the car had overheated and come to a stop, would not restart and the "low battery" light had come on. (on my car it just says "low battery" in yellow, not as a warning message, I couldn't find the exact same pic, that pic was used to prove that there is indeed a low battery light/message on most fords

I apologise if the "low battery" light has lead to some confusion, but I could only tell you what was flashing on the dash.


however, thanks for the replies, it has been an interesting 1st post.

and yes the car is pretty much a lemon, and I have idea what to do with it.

[klmorrell]

I have a third option but the wife wont have it.

I have a vw lt 158 pickup , but she wont let me tow the caravan with it .

I could sell the caravan, but not allowed to do that either.

I have decided on a transit combo van, and will probably pick one up next week.

The car, its just had, all new discs pads, decent tyres, new battery (thanks Halfords)

but rebuild or 2nd engine is more than car is worth

I will probably just ebay it.

I made a stupid mistake but as they say, no point crying over spilt milk