I am officially the worlds most p*ssed off person, Megane!
Discussion
Just fitted gearbox and new clutch to Megane 225. Before i had everything back together and with the front wheels off and car in the air i thought i'd test the clutch, gears etc.
Car fired up, clutch was stiff(it was stiff before!) all gears selected perfectly and wheels were turning with revs etc in all gears!
Finished fitting everything today, put car on the deck and fired it up,dipped the clutch, just won't go into f*ckin gear?? Wtf??
Managed by some miracle to get into reverse and car shot back and hit rear of garage(wood garage) , no damage though as i had a feeling it was going to do this and i was covering the brake.
So, what in the friggin hell is up here?? Car goes into gear with engine off incidentally.
Car fired up, clutch was stiff(it was stiff before!) all gears selected perfectly and wheels were turning with revs etc in all gears!
Finished fitting everything today, put car on the deck and fired it up,dipped the clutch, just won't go into f*ckin gear?? Wtf??
Managed by some miracle to get into reverse and car shot back and hit rear of garage(wood garage) , no damage though as i had a feeling it was going to do this and i was covering the brake.
So, what in the friggin hell is up here?? Car goes into gear with engine off incidentally.
Edited by robbocop33 on Friday 16th November 15:31
I included the pic to see if anyone can tell if disc is right way round, i made doubly sure it was so it 'should' be ok. Yes i did replace the slave cylinder, did buy a cheap one before fitting but at last minute swapped it for a Sachs one!
I saw a video of someone prefilling slave cylinder before fitting which was seemingly a good idea, they just dip the end in a jar of brake fluid and pump the cylinder, tried this but it didn't seem to suck it in, or indeed spew out air bubbles into the fluid?? So i gave up on that.
Can anyone explain why gears, clutch seems fine when front wheels were off and car in the air?
Bleeding the clutch didn't 'seem' to go great, basically i got all the air out, yet pedal was nearly on the floor afterwards, had to pump pedal afterwards and magically the pedal came upwards and seemed to get a decent feel, which just seemed odd!
I saw a video of someone prefilling slave cylinder before fitting which was seemingly a good idea, they just dip the end in a jar of brake fluid and pump the cylinder, tried this but it didn't seem to suck it in, or indeed spew out air bubbles into the fluid?? So i gave up on that.
Can anyone explain why gears, clutch seems fine when front wheels were off and car in the air?
Bleeding the clutch didn't 'seem' to go great, basically i got all the air out, yet pedal was nearly on the floor afterwards, had to pump pedal afterwards and magically the pedal came upwards and seemed to get a decent feel, which just seemed odd!
Edited by robbocop33 on Friday 16th November 16:49
northwestrecovery said:
That's a sac clutch / self adjusting , did you use the tool to compress it when fitting ? if not it wont work .
Yes i set the self adjusting springs before fitting, if you look closely at the springs in my pic above you can see the springs are compressed.Compare to the pic below if my old clutch, springs are stretched out and relaxed.
njw1 said:
Admittedly I've never done a clutch on a Renault but I have fitted a few self adjusting clutches and was under the impression that if you go around the bolts in a diagonal pattern and do them a quarter of a turn each at a time (as is best practice anyway) then the tool isn't needed? I've not had any issues doing it this way on the few clutches I've fitted.
Yes i've heard that. I just reset them beforehand then diagonally tightened the plate bolts.The video i watched set the self adjusting springs 'off' the car, i'm pretty sure his video has mislead me,this should be done 'on' the car! Or can you set it on or off the car?
Edited by robbocop33 on Friday 16th November 21:46
njw1 said:
Admittedly I've never done a clutch on a Renault but I have fitted a few self adjusting clutches and was under the impression that if you go around the bolts in a diagonal pattern and do them a quarter of a turn each at a time (as is best practice anyway) then the tool isn't needed? I've not had any issues doing it this way on the few clutches I've fitted.
Yes i've heard that. I just reset them beforehand then diagonally tightened the plate bolts.The video i watched set the self adjusting springs 'off' the car, i'm pretty sure his video has mislead me,this should be done 'on' the car! Or can you set it on or off the car?
Edited by robbocop33 on Sunday 18th November 14:06
northwestrecovery said:
The tool takes all the tension off the centre plate before fitting and sets initial adjustment in one go , hard to explain without it in front of you . most motor factors lend/ hire them out if don't want to buy one , loads of vids on you tube .
Can you look at the youtube video link in one of my posts above and tell me what's wrong with the way i've done it he's showing us?I get the principal of the self adjustment, clutch disc wears, pre sprung tension keeps the disc towards flywheel to make up for friction wear.
What is so wrong with his method?
I've just checked the Haynes manual and the way i've set the self adjustment is correct! The three green springs on the cover plate should be compressed, and they are in my pic of my clutch installed(shown in first pic i posted above)
Edited by robbocop33 on Saturday 17th November 03:08
Mignon said:
Seen it, looks like his self adjusting springs(at 8 minutes 23 secs) are preset out of the box though, my Luk ones weren't!Haynes manual showed how to set the self adjusters before install, which i did.
Feel like i'm being a bit thick here? Haynes and the video i listed above i followed both used the same method without special tool? :-)
Mignon said:
That video is absolute b'llocks. They compressed the pressure plate fully hence taking the adjuster springs to the end of their travel. You're only supposed to compress the pressure plate until it's flush with the flywheel with the friction plate already fitted. This brings the adjusting springs into the right place in their travel while you tighten the pressure plate bolts up.
Ok, so basically my problem could be my green self adjusting springs are 'too' compressed then i take it?All i'll say is look at the very first pic of my clutch i posted, look at my green self adjusting springs, then look at this pic below taken directly from my Haynes manual, can you see why i feel i've done it correctly? I feel very frustrated. 
Thing that concerns me is despite using every method know to man i haven't been able to get a good clutch pedal(well i did in a roundabout way pullig up pedal by hand) despite no air being in the system(Renault service manual two stage method and even reverse bleeding) , so in reality i'm wondering if the slave cylinder is even doing it's job to disengage the clutch in the first place!
Even read last night people drilling a hole in their bellhousings to turn the sac if it's wrong in-situ! :-)
Even read last night people drilling a hole in their bellhousings to turn the sac if it's wrong in-situ! :-)
Edited by robbocop33 on Sunday 18th November 09:19
Mignon said:
Does the screen name mean you are a plod?
Second names Robertson, nickname Robbo, starting out years ago on t'internet struggling for a name(play on film character Robocop!) No more, no less, i'm a motorcycle instructor for the record.Anyway, just to make me even sicker, here's a pic from the holy grail fountain of all Renault knowledge, the actual service manual!
This, again, is how i done it, and note, done 'off' the car!
Edited by robbocop33 on Sunday 18th November 09:17
Mignon said:
That's fine. I used to be one too. I hate cops though so no more help if you were one of those.
Funny you should mention plod, i work beside two ex plod and they are complete, arrogant a-holes, they 'still' think they're in the force and try and make me jump around to whatever they say, i just ignore them, which usually involves in annoying them and them telling tales to the boss about me, thinking they've got clout and will be believed, boss doesn't have it though, he's sound! :-) Anyway, Megane 225 for sale!! Megane 225 for sale!! Just needs a functional clutch! :-)
Zoobeef said:
Sounds it's just clutch drag you're experiencing either through the pressure plate being backwards or you still have air in the slave cylinder.
Pressure plate is correct way round(pic of old and new clutch posted above) I've heard slave cylinders can leak internally? No fluid is leaking out the bellhousing. I read if you've bled it to death and can't get a pedal, master or slave are knackered. This car shares master cylinder for brakes and clutch. When i was bleeding it by the service manual, stage one is open bleed nipple and pump pedal constantly till no air, close nipple.
Then press down pedal, keep it down, open nipple, close nipple, clutch pedal up, repeat till sick
When doing the second stage 2 or 3 times it was fine, then sound of rushing air in fluid on 4th bleed, then 2 or 3 more pumps and on the 4th, again, one rush of air in fluid. Just never feels like you're getting anywhere!
Bled it for another hour or two yesterday, nothing, This new Sachs slave cylinder better not be faulty!
I know you'll all be thinking you should have taken it to a garage(they fack up too with these cars) , but if i had and they had this problem, i'd be paying for two clutch installs. :-)
Zoobeef said:
Don't know why I said pressure plate. Doh.
Are they a concentric slave cylinder on those? Occasionally you'll get one that's a pain to bleed. As the fluid enters at the top of the box and the bleed nipple is also there so the fluid doesn't really have a reason to go down and push the air up.
Reverse pressure bleeding eventually sorted one perticularlyy stubborn one. I've always primed beforehand now by squeezing to get the air out and dipping it in tub of fluid and letting go to suck fluid in. Then fitting.
As i mentioned above i did try to prime it beforehand, i do a helluva reading, video watching before i do anything, just to cover all eventualities. When i tried to prime it by dipping the end in fluid, and slowly pumping the cylinder, it wouldn't draw in fluud, nor expel bubbles?? Which haven't ever done it before, seemed odd?Are they a concentric slave cylinder on those? Occasionally you'll get one that's a pain to bleed. As the fluid enters at the top of the box and the bleed nipple is also there so the fluid doesn't really have a reason to go down and push the air up.
Reverse pressure bleeding eventually sorted one perticularlyy stubborn one. I've always primed beforehand now by squeezing to get the air out and dipping it in tub of fluid and letting go to suck fluid in. Then fitting.
Another odd thing was during the attempt at reverse bleeding there was a lot of back pressure! Even when i used the brake caliper nipple to feed fluid to the clutch bleed nipple to force fluid/air up to the master it didn't work, hose just shot off due to back pressure.
Im pretty sure regarding the clutch itself the Renault service manual i have and Haynes can't be wrong.
stevieturbo said:
it would be impossible to bolt the pressure plate on the wrong way round.
Friction plate is a different matter and there have been no images of that
You can see enough of the friction centre to know both pics are the same, and for the hell of it i turned it and it would't go on that way, plus, and this is the biggy, it's on the correct way! :-) Friction plate is a different matter and there have been no images of that
Auntieroll said:
The clutch and brake hydraulics are totally separate pressure systems ,they will only share the fluid reservoir.
The clutch fluid line goes from the clutch slave cylinder directly up to the main master cylinder, so where does the clutch get its pressure from if not from the fluid line from the master? Or are you just explaining that when i press the brake that doesn't operate the clutch at the same time!? :-) It's actually staggering when i think about it the amount of time i've spent bleeding this clutch, and it does absolutely nothing! Somethings way wrong, you don't want to think its the new slave cylinder but what else can it be, has to be the master or slave. No leaks from master down to clutch either.
I've just primed the old slave cylinder, it done what i thought it would, drew in fluid, and pumped out bubbles, new one i've got in car wouldn't do either when i tried to prime it.
Edited by robbocop33 on Sunday 18th November 15:54
Edited by robbocop33 on Sunday 18th November 16:43
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