New engine?!? Help!!! VW POLO 1.2 S
Discussion
Hi all,
Am after some advice following a VW dealership informing me I need a new base engine at a cost of £4310.
Around 11 months ago the timing belt on my car went and I had it repaired at the dealership as it was still under the extended warranty I got with the car. I had had problems with the car starting for weeks prior to this, but was told that they had caught the problem before any damage to the engine was done.
Fast forward to last Tuesday, got in the car and it wouldn't start. Roadside assistance came and thought it was a problem with the fuel pump, and so I had it towed to my local mechanic. He had a look and found there was zero compression and thought it was a problem with the timing belt again.
Called VW and they agreed to take it in as they had done the original repair, and so I had it recovered to their premises.
They initially felt it was to do with the timing belt and so I agreed they could investigate further. When I reminded them it should not be of a cost to myself as the initial repair was obviously not fit for purpose they have now said it is the piston ring sealing that has faulted and they cant strip the engine down fully as it is not possible with this type of engine.
I have done some research online and it seems this fault can be caused by a timing belt problem, and I was surprised last year when they said there had been no damage to the engine. On the work sheet from last year they have replaced 3 seal rings, is this something that needs doing with a timing belt change? Like, could they be unrelated to the piston seal ring?
So, I just need some advice, is what they are saying plausible? Could the new problem be unrelated to the timing belt problems last year? Does the price they have quoted for a new engine seem reasonable? Seems excessive to me.
The car is maintained as it should be with regular servicing etc. and is around 6 years old.
Any thoughts greatly appreciated. Totally in the dark here. Thanks in advance.
Am after some advice following a VW dealership informing me I need a new base engine at a cost of £4310.
Around 11 months ago the timing belt on my car went and I had it repaired at the dealership as it was still under the extended warranty I got with the car. I had had problems with the car starting for weeks prior to this, but was told that they had caught the problem before any damage to the engine was done.
Fast forward to last Tuesday, got in the car and it wouldn't start. Roadside assistance came and thought it was a problem with the fuel pump, and so I had it towed to my local mechanic. He had a look and found there was zero compression and thought it was a problem with the timing belt again.
Called VW and they agreed to take it in as they had done the original repair, and so I had it recovered to their premises.
They initially felt it was to do with the timing belt and so I agreed they could investigate further. When I reminded them it should not be of a cost to myself as the initial repair was obviously not fit for purpose they have now said it is the piston ring sealing that has faulted and they cant strip the engine down fully as it is not possible with this type of engine.
I have done some research online and it seems this fault can be caused by a timing belt problem, and I was surprised last year when they said there had been no damage to the engine. On the work sheet from last year they have replaced 3 seal rings, is this something that needs doing with a timing belt change? Like, could they be unrelated to the piston seal ring?
So, I just need some advice, is what they are saying plausible? Could the new problem be unrelated to the timing belt problems last year? Does the price they have quoted for a new engine seem reasonable? Seems excessive to me.
The car is maintained as it should be with regular servicing etc. and is around 6 years old.
Any thoughts greatly appreciated. Totally in the dark here. Thanks in advance.
Hi thanks for this,
Spoke to technician a little while ago and it appears the engine can be stripped down, but they do not have the tools to do it.
The car has not been burning oil not, the oil level dropped about a month before timing belt went, topped it up and has been fine since.
Such a nightmare man, such an expensive fix!
Thank again and no need to apologise for a long post, all information is great at this stage!
Spoke to technician a little while ago and it appears the engine can be stripped down, but they do not have the tools to do it.
The car has not been burning oil not, the oil level dropped about a month before timing belt went, topped it up and has been fine since.
Such a nightmare man, such an expensive fix!
Thank again and no need to apologise for a long post, all information is great at this stage!
Jobs technician said they had done;
no electronic fault found
timing checked and is fine
compression test - very low compression in two cylinders
wet compression test - found compression increased
therefore feels problem with pistons.
I asked what would cause such problems with pistons he said supermarket fuel, this causes carbon build up! Is this right? I know there are different grades of fuel but it cant be that bad can it?
no electronic fault found
timing checked and is fine
compression test - very low compression in two cylinders
wet compression test - found compression increased
therefore feels problem with pistons.
I asked what would cause such problems with pistons he said supermarket fuel, this causes carbon build up! Is this right? I know there are different grades of fuel but it cant be that bad can it?
Hi,
Yes, it does have a timing chain not a belt and it is a 3 cylinder engine.
There was absolutely no warning before it broke down. No rattling, bangs, smoke, loss of power etc. All was fine. The only minor hint was the day before when I went to start it it only started on the second turn on the key, but I just thought I hadn't turned it far enough. Then the next day got in and it just wouldn't start.
Recovery thought it was a problem with fuel pump as he used a spray (no idea what its called) directly into a part of the engine (i think) which ticked the engine over for maybe a second or so and then it stopped. So he felt the engine wasn't getting any fuel.
Independent felt that it was zero compression caused by a timing chain issue, but he doesn't have the tools to rectify and so car went to VW as this was the work they had done previously and had said they would pay for repair as it was their work that was faulty. They then said it was piston seal that has gone, hence no compression.
Yes, it does have a timing chain not a belt and it is a 3 cylinder engine.
There was absolutely no warning before it broke down. No rattling, bangs, smoke, loss of power etc. All was fine. The only minor hint was the day before when I went to start it it only started on the second turn on the key, but I just thought I hadn't turned it far enough. Then the next day got in and it just wouldn't start.
Recovery thought it was a problem with fuel pump as he used a spray (no idea what its called) directly into a part of the engine (i think) which ticked the engine over for maybe a second or so and then it stopped. So he felt the engine wasn't getting any fuel.
Independent felt that it was zero compression caused by a timing chain issue, but he doesn't have the tools to rectify and so car went to VW as this was the work they had done previously and had said they would pay for repair as it was their work that was faulty. They then said it was piston seal that has gone, hence no compression.
Hi,
Yes, it does have a timing chain not a belt and it is a 3 cylinder engine.
There was absolutely no warning before it broke down. No rattling, bangs, smoke, loss of power etc. All was fine. The only minor hint was the day before when I went to start it it only started on the second turn on the key, but I just thought I hadn't turned it far enough. Then the next day got in and it just wouldn't start.
Recovery thought it was a problem with fuel pump as he used a spray (no idea what its called) directly into a part of the engine (i think) which ticked the engine over for maybe a second or so and then it stopped. So he felt the engine wasn't getting any fuel.
Independent felt that it was zero compression caused by a timing chain issue, but he doesn't have the tools to rectify and so car went to VW as this was the work they had done previously and had said they would pay for repair as it was their work that was faulty. They then said it was piston seal that has gone, hence no compression.
Yes, it does have a timing chain not a belt and it is a 3 cylinder engine.
There was absolutely no warning before it broke down. No rattling, bangs, smoke, loss of power etc. All was fine. The only minor hint was the day before when I went to start it it only started on the second turn on the key, but I just thought I hadn't turned it far enough. Then the next day got in and it just wouldn't start.
Recovery thought it was a problem with fuel pump as he used a spray (no idea what its called) directly into a part of the engine (i think) which ticked the engine over for maybe a second or so and then it stopped. So he felt the engine wasn't getting any fuel.
Independent felt that it was zero compression caused by a timing chain issue, but he doesn't have the tools to rectify and so car went to VW as this was the work they had done previously and had said they would pay for repair as it was their work that was faulty. They then said it was piston seal that has gone, hence no compression.
Following email to VW manager is now involved.
They have said that the timing chain cannot jump on this engine it can only stretch. They have checked and it has not stretched. Technician is adamant something not right with piston.
They called to ask my permission to take the n-caps off the engine so that they can see exactly what has happened.
They have said that the timing chain cannot jump on this engine it can only stretch. They have checked and it has not stretched. Technician is adamant something not right with piston.
They called to ask my permission to take the n-caps off the engine so that they can see exactly what has happened.
UPDATE
VW have responded and said that;
1. The chain had not jumped and the timing was not out on the vehicle when checked with their locating pins, and it checked out perfectly.
2. They have opened up the cylinders to have a look and there are no hot spots or any other signs of damage and can supply images of this.
They state that they believe it is the piston seals that are the issue as when a wet compression test was carried out the compression improved significantly from dry compression test results.
They are going to look into VW goodwill, but am not holding my breath and am basically no further forward. With the above being the same as stated before they agreed to look at the engine again.
Am going to email and request all evidence, although they do not offer evidence of piston seal problems or an answer as to why this failed and why the problem was not degenerative (as you guys have indicated it should be with this issue) instead being a immediate non-start problem. Is this something that can be shown in a photograph?
Any thoughts gratefully received.
Thanks again all.
VW have responded and said that;
1. The chain had not jumped and the timing was not out on the vehicle when checked with their locating pins, and it checked out perfectly.
2. They have opened up the cylinders to have a look and there are no hot spots or any other signs of damage and can supply images of this.
They state that they believe it is the piston seals that are the issue as when a wet compression test was carried out the compression improved significantly from dry compression test results.
They are going to look into VW goodwill, but am not holding my breath and am basically no further forward. With the above being the same as stated before they agreed to look at the engine again.
Am going to email and request all evidence, although they do not offer evidence of piston seal problems or an answer as to why this failed and why the problem was not degenerative (as you guys have indicated it should be with this issue) instead being a immediate non-start problem. Is this something that can be shown in a photograph?
Any thoughts gratefully received.
Thanks again all.
Thanks for your reply.
I have emailed and requested evidence of everything just now.
I have, hand on heart, never misfuelled the car. :-) .
They have not mentioned the problem being supermarket fuel since I said how ridiculous that was, but have not offered up any alternative cause. Again I have requested that in the email sent just now.
Thanks again.
I have emailed and requested evidence of everything just now.
I have, hand on heart, never misfuelled the car. :-) .
They have not mentioned the problem being supermarket fuel since I said how ridiculous that was, but have not offered up any alternative cause. Again I have requested that in the email sent just now.
Thanks again.
Hi all thanks for your replies.
No further forward except that a master technician at vw is looking at it tomorrow to make sure they havent missed anything.My concern is that now the engine is in bits as many vw technicians as they want can look at the engine but there will be no evidence of the original diagnosis - the timing chain!
The only cost mentioned so far was the initial work for the timing belt. Which I was told would be covered as that was the issue. This was probably based on my mechanics opinion and not theirs but either way they said it was covered before I gave my permission.
They said it was the 'piston ring sealing' that has faulted. I think opening up the cylinders was intended to check for any other internal engine damage.
Initially they said internal damage was caused by using supermarket fuel but when I questioned this they are now stating I am simply unlucky.
Have written them a letter outlining my rights under the Consumer Rights Act so will see if that achieves anything!
Thanks again, honestly wouldn't have got this far without you all!
No further forward except that a master technician at vw is looking at it tomorrow to make sure they havent missed anything.My concern is that now the engine is in bits as many vw technicians as they want can look at the engine but there will be no evidence of the original diagnosis - the timing chain!
The only cost mentioned so far was the initial work for the timing belt. Which I was told would be covered as that was the issue. This was probably based on my mechanics opinion and not theirs but either way they said it was covered before I gave my permission.
They said it was the 'piston ring sealing' that has faulted. I think opening up the cylinders was intended to check for any other internal engine damage.
Initially they said internal damage was caused by using supermarket fuel but when I questioned this they are now stating I am simply unlucky.
Have written them a letter outlining my rights under the Consumer Rights Act so will see if that achieves anything!
Thanks again, honestly wouldn't have got this far without you all!
UPDATE
Contact from VW stating;
They cant give a reason for piston seal failing, but they believe it has due to compression tests.
Their job card states ;
Cyl 1 - 1.1bar - Wet test - 6.5bar
Cly 2 - 6.5 bar - Wet test - 11.0 bar
Cyl 3 - 11 bar
They have said it needs a new engine as this engine is a sealed unit and cannot replace things such as pistons or piston rings. Is this right?
They have opened up engine and no damage visible including damage to valves.
They have said that as my mechanic diagnosed based on a visual assessment of the Cams on the back of the Cam shaft and noticing it not lined up correctly, their test supersedes this as they use specialist tools to check it.
They are going to look into goodwill payment but not holding out much hope. Anyone know how much this could potentially be, if they agree to it?
Thanks again all.
Contact from VW stating;
They cant give a reason for piston seal failing, but they believe it has due to compression tests.
Their job card states ;
Cyl 1 - 1.1bar - Wet test - 6.5bar
Cly 2 - 6.5 bar - Wet test - 11.0 bar
Cyl 3 - 11 bar
They have said it needs a new engine as this engine is a sealed unit and cannot replace things such as pistons or piston rings. Is this right?
They have opened up engine and no damage visible including damage to valves.
They have said that as my mechanic diagnosed based on a visual assessment of the Cams on the back of the Cam shaft and noticing it not lined up correctly, their test supersedes this as they use specialist tools to check it.
They are going to look into goodwill payment but not holding out much hope. Anyone know how much this could potentially be, if they agree to it?
Thanks again all.
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