Tyre Recommendations for V8V SP10?
Discussion
I'll soon be needing to replace all four tyres on my '14 V8V SP10, but I'm not sure which tyres to go for. I definitely want to come away from the standard-fit Bridgestones as they're frankly dreadful. Very hard ride, not particularly responsive, little steering feel and physically heavy.
My first thought had been to switch to either Michelin PS4-S or SuperSport, but whilst rears are listed in the correct size (285/35 x 19) there is no listing for the size required for the fronts on my car (245/40 x 19). The opposite is true of the standard Michelin PS4 - the front size is listed, but not the rears!
Mike at BR has suggested mixing PS4 on the front with PS4-S on the rear, but I'm always a little wary of using different types of tyre F/R. Has anyone used this combination? If so, how does the car drive? I'd assume the balance of the car would move more towards understeer when using what is, effectively, a lower-spec tyre on the front of the car?
Other than the Michelins, can anyone recommend a different alternative? The car is only used on the road, but is driven 'enthusiastically' (where appropriate)!
Thanks in advance for any thoughts and advice you may have.
My first thought had been to switch to either Michelin PS4-S or SuperSport, but whilst rears are listed in the correct size (285/35 x 19) there is no listing for the size required for the fronts on my car (245/40 x 19). The opposite is true of the standard Michelin PS4 - the front size is listed, but not the rears!
Mike at BR has suggested mixing PS4 on the front with PS4-S on the rear, but I'm always a little wary of using different types of tyre F/R. Has anyone used this combination? If so, how does the car drive? I'd assume the balance of the car would move more towards understeer when using what is, effectively, a lower-spec tyre on the front of the car?
Other than the Michelins, can anyone recommend a different alternative? The car is only used on the road, but is driven 'enthusiastically' (where appropriate)!
Thanks in advance for any thoughts and advice you may have.
telum01 said:
Do you mean PSS on the front and PS4S on the rear?
My main concern with mixing the front vs rear tires is that they're going to have different driving characteristics. The PS4S is a much better tire when cold, so it'll get traction much more quickly than the PSS. I'd assume, based on that difference, you'll be dealing with understeer until the PSS tires in front heat up. When the mixing topic came up a while back I'd urged caution and a bunch of people jumped down my throat for it, so I'm sure you'll be told it's just fine. But I wouldn't recommend it because it can lead to unpredictable driving characteristics when the tires aren't all warmed up.
For what it's worth, the MPS4S is available in the sizes you need. It may just be a regional availability issue.
Mike's suggestion was PS4 on the front and PS4-S on the rear as PS4-S aren't available in 245/40 x 19 (according to Michelin's UK site here):My main concern with mixing the front vs rear tires is that they're going to have different driving characteristics. The PS4S is a much better tire when cold, so it'll get traction much more quickly than the PSS. I'd assume, based on that difference, you'll be dealing with understeer until the PSS tires in front heat up. When the mixing topic came up a while back I'd urged caution and a bunch of people jumped down my throat for it, so I'm sure you'll be told it's just fine. But I wouldn't recommend it because it can lead to unpredictable driving characteristics when the tires aren't all warmed up.
For what it's worth, the MPS4S is available in the sizes you need. It may just be a regional availability issue.
http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/michelin-pilot-spo...
V8V Pete said:
I've been pondering this one too Ian as I also can't see V8S sizes of PS4S in the UK. They do however do V12V sizes (255/35 & 295/30) so this might be an option although V12 rims are a bit wider so not totally sure these would sit OK on the V8S rims. Anyone tried this or know for sure?
Interesting idea - changing the wheels for V12 items. I guess if the offsets work OK on the V8 hubs, then it should work. The front might be a little over-tyred though, as the V8 motor is quite a lot lighter than the V12. Downside is it would make the cost of changing tyres a little high!!Big Ry said:
FWIW I'm not a fan of mixing tyres in any guise. Also, this is a curve ball but what would an insurer stay if you binned it and they saw what would effectively be odd tyres ? Maybe they don't care, but that's the kind of thing that worries me. We all know how they look for any excuse not to payout.
Very good point. As you say, they probably wouldn't profess to give a damn - unless there was a claim, then suddenly it would be a major issue. Following-on from my initial enquiry above, I contacted Michelin a few days ago to confirm, once and for all, if they do or don't make a matching set of performance tyres in 245/40x19 and 285/35x19.
The customer services adviser confirmed at the time that Michelin doesn't manufacture PS4-S in 245/40x19. However, according to their internal database, the PSS should have been available in both the required sizes. This would have done me nicely, as the PSS is a superb tyre.
However, the info on Michelin's website disagreed with their internal database as it showed the PSS as also being unavailable in 245/40x19. It now turns-out the website was right - I received the following email from Michelin this afternoon:
So Michelin doesn't make any of their current performance tyres in a matching set for Vantage S. Great! However.........
I contacted Mike at BR again and asked him for clarification on mixing PS4 on the front of the car with PS4-S on the back. His reply was as follows:
"..... The water channels are virtually the same, the available grip from cold is more than a driver will push in reality. Logically, it’s not as if front axle and rear axle handle identically anyway, (different weight balance, driving vs. non-driven wheels and rear is going through a LSD) so a slight change in compound between each axle will effect what exactly? ....."
He also went on to say:
"..... Also, considering the suspension on your car, [Sportpack] the 4-S compound will work very well on the rear, will have excellent high speed tendency for a little rear end oversteer, which is exactly what the vantage needs to overcome its front end understeer. The DSC will always catch anything in background, so it’s all risk free / irrelevant worries anyway..... "
To me, Mike's logic makes a lot of sense: different axles, different requirements. Mike also stated to me that this combination drives really well ('Ace' was the word he used) and is arguably the best option currently available for Vantage. I tend to trust Mike's judgement, so I'm going to go with BR's recommendation - PS4 front, PS4-S rear. Will report back in a couple of weeks once the tyres are on the car and bedded-in.
The customer services adviser confirmed at the time that Michelin doesn't manufacture PS4-S in 245/40x19. However, according to their internal database, the PSS should have been available in both the required sizes. This would have done me nicely, as the PSS is a superb tyre.
However, the info on Michelin's website disagreed with their internal database as it showed the PSS as also being unavailable in 245/40x19. It now turns-out the website was right - I received the following email from Michelin this afternoon:
So Michelin doesn't make any of their current performance tyres in a matching set for Vantage S. Great! However.........
I contacted Mike at BR again and asked him for clarification on mixing PS4 on the front of the car with PS4-S on the back. His reply was as follows:
"..... The water channels are virtually the same, the available grip from cold is more than a driver will push in reality. Logically, it’s not as if front axle and rear axle handle identically anyway, (different weight balance, driving vs. non-driven wheels and rear is going through a LSD) so a slight change in compound between each axle will effect what exactly? ....."
He also went on to say:
"..... Also, considering the suspension on your car, [Sportpack] the 4-S compound will work very well on the rear, will have excellent high speed tendency for a little rear end oversteer, which is exactly what the vantage needs to overcome its front end understeer. The DSC will always catch anything in background, so it’s all risk free / irrelevant worries anyway..... "
To me, Mike's logic makes a lot of sense: different axles, different requirements. Mike also stated to me that this combination drives really well ('Ace' was the word he used) and is arguably the best option currently available for Vantage. I tend to trust Mike's judgement, so I'm going to go with BR's recommendation - PS4 front, PS4-S rear. Will report back in a couple of weeks once the tyres are on the car and bedded-in.
telum01 said:
Like I said, it's a regional availability thing. It might be that these specific tires are made in the US, and Michelin isn't shipping them to Europe. That's a big disappointment for you guys, because they're such a great tire.
Thanks for the heads-up. Which US supplier is this?Really good of Michelin not to make these tyres available in the UK. And then to claim they don't even manufacture them! Nice try Michelin, but you're busted!
On a more serious note, it can't be too difficult for Michelin to make this size PS4-S available in UK/Europe if they're manufacturing them already. Any Michelin marketing bods reading this....?! In the meantime, if anyone knows of any US-based Michelin
Edited by Ian_UK1 on Monday 16th October 19:51
Dal65 said:
It must be an area thing , I'm down in Essex & had MsP4 fitted 4 weeks ago on my V8S same size you need via an independent garage, will find out were he got them & send a contact
That would be great - many thanks.rovcallum said:
Looks like tirerack.com in the US.
A couple of months back I messaged Michelin UK Customer Service and got the same answer as previously mentioned "No, sorry we don't do that size". I guess Michelin UK just don't have the international picture.
A Group Buy sounds good. I'd be up for a full set of these (V8VS sizes) for my regular V8V.
Anyone know any Michelin Rep to make this happen?
Maybe Oponeo or Blackcircles would take it on?
UPDATE:
OK so I sent tirerack.com an email asking if they would be interested in shipping to the UK and how many sets would make it worth their while. I guess it would be best to deal with Michelin but since we have a retailer, we might as well start there. Watch this space.
Looking forward to the outcome of this.A couple of months back I messaged Michelin UK Customer Service and got the same answer as previously mentioned "No, sorry we don't do that size". I guess Michelin UK just don't have the international picture.
A Group Buy sounds good. I'd be up for a full set of these (V8VS sizes) for my regular V8V.
Anyone know any Michelin Rep to make this happen?
Maybe Oponeo or Blackcircles would take it on?
UPDATE:
OK so I sent tirerack.com an email asking if they would be interested in shipping to the UK and how many sets would make it worth their while. I guess it would be best to deal with Michelin but since we have a retailer, we might as well start there. Watch this space.
Edited by rovcallum on Monday 16th October 23:08
Yesterday, I emailed Black Circles about the possibility of using their influence with Michelin to get hold of some Pilot Sport 4S in 245/40x19, given they're clearly available in the USA. This was Black Circles' response:
"..... Dear Ian,
Thank you for your enquiry,
Having inquired with regard to your request the tyres in question Michelin Pilot Sport 4S 245/40 R19, This size and fitment is a USA only product and is not E marked and is not supplied with a UK EAN production code therefore is unable to be supplied through the UK market.
All tyres sold through the UK market are also required to pass testing and regulation from the Department of Transport which certifies the tyre suitable for the UK industry and the tyres are marked with an E on sidewall. As the 245/40 R19 Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tyres do not carry this specification we are unable to legally sell this tyre within the UK.
The only option I could recommend would be if the requested tyres could be outsourced from the USA and imported to the UK then this would be deemed as imported goods and would be suitable to be fitted. Unfortunately as a company we would be unable to offer this service.
Alternatively we would be happy to look at other options available in the sizes required and see if we can offer a suitable alternative tyre.
Please contact me directly if I can assist in any further way.
Kind regards ....."
So it looks like we currently have 3 options:
a) Wait for Michelin to make the 4S available in 245/40x19 in the UK with DoT approval.
b) Import a quantity of these tyres from the USA.
c) Mix Pilot Sport 4S rear and Pilot Sport 4 front as suggested by Mike at BR.
As a) could be a protracted process, I think we need to look at b) and c) as the viable options for now.
If, as Callum suggests, TireRack is open to shipping a quantity of these tyres to the UK, we should maybe start a separate group-buy thread to ascertain the level of interest?
"..... Dear Ian,
Thank you for your enquiry,
Having inquired with regard to your request the tyres in question Michelin Pilot Sport 4S 245/40 R19, This size and fitment is a USA only product and is not E marked and is not supplied with a UK EAN production code therefore is unable to be supplied through the UK market.
All tyres sold through the UK market are also required to pass testing and regulation from the Department of Transport which certifies the tyre suitable for the UK industry and the tyres are marked with an E on sidewall. As the 245/40 R19 Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tyres do not carry this specification we are unable to legally sell this tyre within the UK.
The only option I could recommend would be if the requested tyres could be outsourced from the USA and imported to the UK then this would be deemed as imported goods and would be suitable to be fitted. Unfortunately as a company we would be unable to offer this service.
Alternatively we would be happy to look at other options available in the sizes required and see if we can offer a suitable alternative tyre.
Please contact me directly if I can assist in any further way.
Kind regards ....."
So it looks like we currently have 3 options:
a) Wait for Michelin to make the 4S available in 245/40x19 in the UK with DoT approval.
b) Import a quantity of these tyres from the USA.
c) Mix Pilot Sport 4S rear and Pilot Sport 4 front as suggested by Mike at BR.
As a) could be a protracted process, I think we need to look at b) and c) as the viable options for now.
If, as Callum suggests, TireRack is open to shipping a quantity of these tyres to the UK, we should maybe start a separate group-buy thread to ascertain the level of interest?
Edited by Ian_UK1 on Thursday 19th October 15:44
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