Why we love our Astons?
Discussion
Hello all, I'm fairly new to posting on the forum, but thought this would make an interesting thread - running expensive cars is always heart over head stuff, and I note so many on here run not one but two or more AM, and many appear to have owned a great deal more. I wonder what it is that turns one into a fan or devotee of a given Marque? History, Pop culture? Classic credentials? Racing success? Rarity, Technical prowess? The poster on the wall as a teenager? The attachment which comes with increasing marque knowledge and familiarity? I guess many of these would be the case for our favorite car manufacturer.
I will have a go at starting - its just some personal introspection, is IMHO and not intending to upset anyone, all those fans of the really new stuff don't be offended, remember I also bought one, have really liked it and still do
Why we love our Astons - an owners perspective
Having been a fan of fast bikes and later fast cars for some 30 years, and having previously owned 911s, Alfa V6s, various stuff with suffixes like GTi, and a large assortment of speed machines of the 2-wheeled variety, I was lucky enough to finally buy my first Aston Martin four years ago in 2016. Despite all previous experience, I made a rookie error, over-reached, and went for a newer, higher spec car than I could really afford. A car with a slightly dodgy history, which ended up costing a small fortune to ultimately sort out. However, aside from a few ownership wobbles as some issues could not be sorted by various specialists and costs mounted, in the end, other than the cost, I didn't really regret it. Learning the lesson, I purchased my second Aston, a year-old DB11 from a main dealer in 2019, and am, despite all happening in the world, lucky enough to have been able to purchase yet another in 2020. As far as the big boys toys go, it is now become quite difficult to consider other marques, no matter how good the later Porsche, Ferrari, Bentley, McLaren etc are reported to be, or how much the journos report of the shortfalls when comparing Aston tech status to the latest upgrades in engines/transmissions/handling/interiors from all stripes of competition. It all seems to matter less and less to me, and got me wondering why...?
So, here I will try to outline why I seem to be turning into an AM devotee, and it has little to do with James Bond.
I first saw an Aston in the flesh in 1985. I remember it clearly. I was 16 and it was a lovely late 70's V8, parked in the car park of a specialist mechanic in the next village along from mine. Though he often had 'interesting' stuff in for work, this was something different, so much bigger, more aggressive and striking than any of the cars in the car park, which included an Escort Mexico and a Datsun 240z among more usual 70s and early 80's stuff. I suppose any American muscle car would have had the same effect in any 80's UK car park. To me this car was from another world. It wasn't even the Bond thing, I'm a child of 70's and 80's - to the 16yr old me Bond was of course Roger Moore and his car was indisputably the white underwater Lotus Esprit. The 60's were black and white ancient history, Connery and his grey DB5 were impossibly old to my teenage eyes. I remember thinking that this was a proper 'mans' car, it had such presence. However, not for a single second did I think that I could or would ever own one. Working class kids up in the North of England rarely used to think that big back then - it was OK to aspire to an XR3i or maybe even a BMW if you were a real dreamer. In my case, a Kawasaki GPZ900 or a Yamaha RD500 were about as lofty as my dreams went...
When, some 30 years later the opportunity arrived to acquire a Gaydon Vantage, the 'baby Aston' - I almost disbelievingly took the plunge. Though the one I bought had issues, and took much TLC to get it right, it was my own fault - I was just too dazzled by the beauty of the car to look as hard as I would otherwise have done. Yet another life lesson re-learned.
Excluding the current crop of genuinely excellent turbocharged Aston Martin products, all earlier Astons, arguably even including most of the 1st-gen 2004-on Gaydon VH cars, are strange, imperfect, Siren-like things. I think it's because other than their universally stunning looks, and the more recent 'cool' factor courtesy of Top Gear, they were never really up to scratch from the factory, always seeming somewhat flawed or unfinished. Right or wrong, this effectively invites any owner, once reality sinks in, to finish off the car for themselves. The process of improving and personalising their car, while expensive and often frustrating, is also rewarding as the car gets better. A consequence is the development of some sort of symbiotic relationship where the more you are prepared to put in, the more you will ultimately get out. Unlike some other cars (Porsche comes to mind first) where the more usual out-of-the-crate closer-to-perfection nature of the cars can possibly make the ownership experience a little more transactional, as it was for me. You buy, you own, do nothing to the car, develop no special attachment as you haven't had to invest too much time or money, then you sell, and you often think nothing of it, moving on to the next big thing as part of our endless quest for more of everything.
It isn't quite like that with an Aston - you have to work at it, always correcting this or that gremlin, fault or rattle. Always repairing something that has faulted or fallen off, or investing in large or small upgrades or more minor tweaks to get the car closer to where it arguably should have been from the start. Without the development budgets, and subject to cost constraint and commercial pressure even under Ford ownership, until very recently, Aston thus effectively used to let their customers finish off the cars - I suppose it's a good way of keeping costs under control. Of course, in the modern era, where the majority of customers have far greater expectation, and generally (not everyone of course) somewhat lower technical ability or patience, this had to change, even for AM and it did; Astons '2nd century' cars are now pretty much the finished article from the factory.
However, out of the box perfection does increase the risk of a lack of attachment and even ultimately boredom, especially if the shapes are not as universally acknowledged to be as jaw-droppingly beautiful as had become the norm. Dr Palmer's favourite Aston was the classic 70's/80s V8 Vantage (he owns one), effectively the same car as the first Aston the teenage me ever set eyes on all those years ago, a car styled like a 60's American muscle car. Perhaps this explains why the cars developed when he was at the helm became more aggressive and less, well, beautiful? Perhaps the new cars will improve with age, and come to be seen as beautiful in the future, just as that classic 70's V8, previously considered a bit of a brute, has actually done.
Whatever, other motorists all appear to appreciate the sublime beauty of just about any Aston - the positive response from other road users when on the road in my Gaydon Vantage or DB11 is incredible. People come to talk to you at petrol stations, ask if they can take photos etc 'I've always wanted one of those'. There was a reason that the you tube video of someone keying a DB9 a few years back went viral - despite the same thing probably happening dozens of times a week to Porsches et al, this was an Aston he was keying, what was he thinking?
To sum up, IMHO, it is the visceral beauty, the relationship forming nature of the cars, the reactions of others, the history, the story, all on top of the more normal reasons for owning a sports car, the power, the presence and the noise which contribute to making selling your Aston feel so much like a divorce, like a part of you is being ripped away. This is the reason I couldn't bring myself to sell my Vantage when I bought my DB11. It is also the reason why, if I am forced to sell one of those two to continue to fund the new acquisition, it will be the better car, the perfect, near flawless DB11 which may have to ultimately make way.
And the new car? A lovely late 70's V8
I will have a go at starting - its just some personal introspection, is IMHO and not intending to upset anyone, all those fans of the really new stuff don't be offended, remember I also bought one, have really liked it and still do
Why we love our Astons - an owners perspective
Having been a fan of fast bikes and later fast cars for some 30 years, and having previously owned 911s, Alfa V6s, various stuff with suffixes like GTi, and a large assortment of speed machines of the 2-wheeled variety, I was lucky enough to finally buy my first Aston Martin four years ago in 2016. Despite all previous experience, I made a rookie error, over-reached, and went for a newer, higher spec car than I could really afford. A car with a slightly dodgy history, which ended up costing a small fortune to ultimately sort out. However, aside from a few ownership wobbles as some issues could not be sorted by various specialists and costs mounted, in the end, other than the cost, I didn't really regret it. Learning the lesson, I purchased my second Aston, a year-old DB11 from a main dealer in 2019, and am, despite all happening in the world, lucky enough to have been able to purchase yet another in 2020. As far as the big boys toys go, it is now become quite difficult to consider other marques, no matter how good the later Porsche, Ferrari, Bentley, McLaren etc are reported to be, or how much the journos report of the shortfalls when comparing Aston tech status to the latest upgrades in engines/transmissions/handling/interiors from all stripes of competition. It all seems to matter less and less to me, and got me wondering why...?
So, here I will try to outline why I seem to be turning into an AM devotee, and it has little to do with James Bond.
I first saw an Aston in the flesh in 1985. I remember it clearly. I was 16 and it was a lovely late 70's V8, parked in the car park of a specialist mechanic in the next village along from mine. Though he often had 'interesting' stuff in for work, this was something different, so much bigger, more aggressive and striking than any of the cars in the car park, which included an Escort Mexico and a Datsun 240z among more usual 70s and early 80's stuff. I suppose any American muscle car would have had the same effect in any 80's UK car park. To me this car was from another world. It wasn't even the Bond thing, I'm a child of 70's and 80's - to the 16yr old me Bond was of course Roger Moore and his car was indisputably the white underwater Lotus Esprit. The 60's were black and white ancient history, Connery and his grey DB5 were impossibly old to my teenage eyes. I remember thinking that this was a proper 'mans' car, it had such presence. However, not for a single second did I think that I could or would ever own one. Working class kids up in the North of England rarely used to think that big back then - it was OK to aspire to an XR3i or maybe even a BMW if you were a real dreamer. In my case, a Kawasaki GPZ900 or a Yamaha RD500 were about as lofty as my dreams went...
When, some 30 years later the opportunity arrived to acquire a Gaydon Vantage, the 'baby Aston' - I almost disbelievingly took the plunge. Though the one I bought had issues, and took much TLC to get it right, it was my own fault - I was just too dazzled by the beauty of the car to look as hard as I would otherwise have done. Yet another life lesson re-learned.
Excluding the current crop of genuinely excellent turbocharged Aston Martin products, all earlier Astons, arguably even including most of the 1st-gen 2004-on Gaydon VH cars, are strange, imperfect, Siren-like things. I think it's because other than their universally stunning looks, and the more recent 'cool' factor courtesy of Top Gear, they were never really up to scratch from the factory, always seeming somewhat flawed or unfinished. Right or wrong, this effectively invites any owner, once reality sinks in, to finish off the car for themselves. The process of improving and personalising their car, while expensive and often frustrating, is also rewarding as the car gets better. A consequence is the development of some sort of symbiotic relationship where the more you are prepared to put in, the more you will ultimately get out. Unlike some other cars (Porsche comes to mind first) where the more usual out-of-the-crate closer-to-perfection nature of the cars can possibly make the ownership experience a little more transactional, as it was for me. You buy, you own, do nothing to the car, develop no special attachment as you haven't had to invest too much time or money, then you sell, and you often think nothing of it, moving on to the next big thing as part of our endless quest for more of everything.
It isn't quite like that with an Aston - you have to work at it, always correcting this or that gremlin, fault or rattle. Always repairing something that has faulted or fallen off, or investing in large or small upgrades or more minor tweaks to get the car closer to where it arguably should have been from the start. Without the development budgets, and subject to cost constraint and commercial pressure even under Ford ownership, until very recently, Aston thus effectively used to let their customers finish off the cars - I suppose it's a good way of keeping costs under control. Of course, in the modern era, where the majority of customers have far greater expectation, and generally (not everyone of course) somewhat lower technical ability or patience, this had to change, even for AM and it did; Astons '2nd century' cars are now pretty much the finished article from the factory.
However, out of the box perfection does increase the risk of a lack of attachment and even ultimately boredom, especially if the shapes are not as universally acknowledged to be as jaw-droppingly beautiful as had become the norm. Dr Palmer's favourite Aston was the classic 70's/80s V8 Vantage (he owns one), effectively the same car as the first Aston the teenage me ever set eyes on all those years ago, a car styled like a 60's American muscle car. Perhaps this explains why the cars developed when he was at the helm became more aggressive and less, well, beautiful? Perhaps the new cars will improve with age, and come to be seen as beautiful in the future, just as that classic 70's V8, previously considered a bit of a brute, has actually done.
Whatever, other motorists all appear to appreciate the sublime beauty of just about any Aston - the positive response from other road users when on the road in my Gaydon Vantage or DB11 is incredible. People come to talk to you at petrol stations, ask if they can take photos etc 'I've always wanted one of those'. There was a reason that the you tube video of someone keying a DB9 a few years back went viral - despite the same thing probably happening dozens of times a week to Porsches et al, this was an Aston he was keying, what was he thinking?
To sum up, IMHO, it is the visceral beauty, the relationship forming nature of the cars, the reactions of others, the history, the story, all on top of the more normal reasons for owning a sports car, the power, the presence and the noise which contribute to making selling your Aston feel so much like a divorce, like a part of you is being ripped away. This is the reason I couldn't bring myself to sell my Vantage when I bought my DB11. It is also the reason why, if I am forced to sell one of those two to continue to fund the new acquisition, it will be the better car, the perfect, near flawless DB11 which may have to ultimately make way.
And the new car? A lovely late 70's V8
Nice - a well sorted Vantage is quite something. Some on here will know mine... RobGT’s old Vantage S ‘Purdey’ - now fully cosmetically perfected and mechanically returned to the full 460bhp upgrade spec he developed with BR in 2012/13. It had naturally been somewhat further tweaked with V12 AMR back box, Virage switches latest BR spec goodies and software and PS4 Michelin rubber. It is also a keeper
Jon39 said:
Your car must be Rob's second Vantage. White if I remember.
The first one had a story.
He was always very keen for Aston Martin to make a road version of a track car.
His wish eventually came true with the GT12, but by then he had left to become a Porsche enthusiast.
.
I could have nearly bought two for the money that’s been sunk into this storied V8VS (all mapped out on this forum!) - but hey ho, It’s done now, and as Rob once said, Purdey is now pur-fect
Graze01 said:
damn sweet post for a newbie - love it!
1978 near Sloane Square walking along Eaton Gardens I saw a stunning late 70's V8 parked. jaw dropping. Never considered I would owqn one. A bit like the Op i then progressed ob=ver many years through MG's, hot Saab's, BMW's RS Audis to eventually a 07 V8VM. perfect car. drove it daily, but made
the mistake of test driving a V12VS having read about them on this insidious forum. V8V stayed for about a year after the V12 arrived but has since gone to a good home. The V12 is special - its a fast day out or long trip car for me now, not the daily.
sense of occasion, reward for hard work as others have said, the noise, the feeling of trying to get the power to the ground - just awesome
I feel really fortunate to be able to own it. like so many of us
and they are a brilliant car now that I have no need for carting other people around
It wont be my last!
great thread
thanks for starting it - now just post some photos of your two beauties
Graeme
Thanks for the kind words - as regards photos, happy to oblige 1978 near Sloane Square walking along Eaton Gardens I saw a stunning late 70's V8 parked. jaw dropping. Never considered I would owqn one. A bit like the Op i then progressed ob=ver many years through MG's, hot Saab's, BMW's RS Audis to eventually a 07 V8VM. perfect car. drove it daily, but made
the mistake of test driving a V12VS having read about them on this insidious forum. V8V stayed for about a year after the V12 arrived but has since gone to a good home. The V12 is special - its a fast day out or long trip car for me now, not the daily.
sense of occasion, reward for hard work as others have said, the noise, the feeling of trying to get the power to the ground - just awesome
I feel really fortunate to be able to own it. like so many of us
and they are a brilliant car now that I have no need for carting other people around
It wont be my last!
great thread
thanks for starting it - now just post some photos of your two beauties
Graeme
These replies are fascinating - the common thread seems to be that our views/desires on our favourite automotive art seem to become fixed when we are kids. Then, with a few more rings on the tree and (hopefully, and with hard work and some life luck!) a few quid in our pockets we can make our childhood dreams a reality
mabbott said:
As a 14 year old in 1992 my parents neighbours had a Porsche 928 S4 that got traded in against an 80s V8 Vantage. I couldn’t understand why they’d gone from a year or so old, and for me Uber-cool, 928, to what must have been a 3 or 4 year old and distinctly less cool Vantage.....Until I heard it and finally saw it take off up the road one morning ....
Fast forward a few years, I was sponsored by Ford through university for my engineering degree, and managed to get the last rotation of my year out in summer 1999 at Bloxham helping do some final calibration on the then new DB7 Vantage. I flashed the first 100 or so production cars on a workbench rigged up with some bits and bobs from Maplin soldered to a butchered-up Ford EEC plug/harness. I also translated the early dealer training courses for the car into French. Sorry to any early French owners if the dealers messed anything up. Equally sorry if anyone had any ECU gremlins early on
Fast forward again 18 months I joined Lotus on graduation and one of my first jobs was seconded to the chassis team on what was becoming the Vanquish, then being stationed at Newport being part of the resident team getting ready for launch / production. This was the time Dr Bez was arriving, and also seeing the last of the Newport V cars being built with stuff that looked straight out of a blacksmiths yard... I still have a paperweight of the car thanking me for the contribution. A nice touch given i was very much one of, if not the most junior on the project.
Fast forward a third time to 2005 I was working at JLR on the then upcoming X150 XK/XKR and seconded out of what I was doing to go and help sort the launch of the V8 Vantage, specifically the engine launch and all sorts of early problems in Cologne. Again good memories if a little fraught at the time.
That was my last job in automotive, but I had fond memories of both the cars and working with the company but never for them; I bought my first 4.3 in 2008, another in 2010, then a V12V in 2015 which I’ll keep. I currently have half an eye on a DB11 as a family / touring car, the DBS is a bit too showy for me, but ultimately would love to get an original V8 Vantage I started this post with...
Well Mabbott - It’s been a few years - did you ever get the 80’s Vantage or the DB11….?Fast forward a few years, I was sponsored by Ford through university for my engineering degree, and managed to get the last rotation of my year out in summer 1999 at Bloxham helping do some final calibration on the then new DB7 Vantage. I flashed the first 100 or so production cars on a workbench rigged up with some bits and bobs from Maplin soldered to a butchered-up Ford EEC plug/harness. I also translated the early dealer training courses for the car into French. Sorry to any early French owners if the dealers messed anything up. Equally sorry if anyone had any ECU gremlins early on
Fast forward again 18 months I joined Lotus on graduation and one of my first jobs was seconded to the chassis team on what was becoming the Vanquish, then being stationed at Newport being part of the resident team getting ready for launch / production. This was the time Dr Bez was arriving, and also seeing the last of the Newport V cars being built with stuff that looked straight out of a blacksmiths yard... I still have a paperweight of the car thanking me for the contribution. A nice touch given i was very much one of, if not the most junior on the project.
Fast forward a third time to 2005 I was working at JLR on the then upcoming X150 XK/XKR and seconded out of what I was doing to go and help sort the launch of the V8 Vantage, specifically the engine launch and all sorts of early problems in Cologne. Again good memories if a little fraught at the time.
That was my last job in automotive, but I had fond memories of both the cars and working with the company but never for them; I bought my first 4.3 in 2008, another in 2010, then a V12V in 2015 which I’ll keep. I currently have half an eye on a DB11 as a family / touring car, the DBS is a bit too showy for me, but ultimately would love to get an original V8 Vantage I started this post with...
For all the owners old and new, another chance to offer your own thoughts on the thread title. I learned with my first post that the subject of the irrational love some have for these very often flawed cars seems to come up every few years. Bond references optional….
kevin_cambs_uk said:
I hadn’t given AM any thought, knew of the brand and how cool it was, and that they were expensive.
I am a Ford chap, always have been, still don’t even own an Aston yet....
But I saw the V12 Vantage on top gear and was blown away with the look of the car, the bonnet vents, I would have given my kidneys for them!!!
Anyway thought that would never happen, and then I somehow found out you could 25% of your pension at 55...
So I started to look around the prices etc and they were not as astronomical as I thought, so told the wife and said when we become mortgage free we are then becoming Aston Martin owners!
So that was 2 years ago of no holidays, not going out or buying anything, we have just under 2 years to go and then the process of buying the ‘one’ will begin
Over the last 2 years I have done loads of research , bought the ‘book’, t shirts and started on the garage plan for when we get there
So it’s all preparation but it’s going to be worth it
Kevin - you fulfilled your dream as you said you would.. I am a Ford chap, always have been, still don’t even own an Aston yet....
But I saw the V12 Vantage on top gear and was blown away with the look of the car, the bonnet vents, I would have given my kidneys for them!!!
Anyway thought that would never happen, and then I somehow found out you could 25% of your pension at 55...
So I started to look around the prices etc and they were not as astronomical as I thought, so told the wife and said when we become mortgage free we are then becoming Aston Martin owners!
So that was 2 years ago of no holidays, not going out or buying anything, we have just under 2 years to go and then the process of buying the ‘one’ will begin
Over the last 2 years I have done loads of research , bought the ‘book’, t shirts and started on the garage plan for when we get there
So it’s all preparation but it’s going to be worth it
mabbott said:
Calinours said:
Well Mabbott - It’s been a few years - did you ever get the 80’s Vantage or the DB11….?
Thread resurrection! No sadly on both counts. DB11: I tried one and enjoyed it. Only deal breaker was a complete lack boot space. It was going to be a family car afterall. I know this isn’t meant to be important but given the overall size of the car and its GT / touring intent but there is no way we could accommodate a long weekend of stuff in it, let a longer trip.
80s V8 Vantage. I’ve detailed this in another thread: I had 4 or so supposedly top end cars inspected. Each one ‘absolutely perfect sir, on the button, etc etc’, all needed plenty of work. None of this is surprising as they are classic cars and some have more stories than others, but the levels of seller BS was off scale. The most cost effective option was going to be an RSW rebuild that I was (and remain) up for, but I had a moment of sobriety and decided I shouldn’t be so self-indulgent for one car. It was an interesting exercise: I met some really insightful people who could not have given me more help (Roo on here, RSW, Rikki Cann to name but a few), and also sadly a longer list of the opposite.
So my fun aside was restoring an old Jag XKR I inherited (‘XKR to Tokyo’ in the Jag thread) which is currently satisfying the GT requirements for a couple of years whilst I ponder what will come after. I know it is no comparison to a DB11, but for what it is, goes very well, has a big boot, and perhaps for 2 more years still usable interior space until the little ones’ legs’ grow. V12V remains a keeper too.
My own cars evolution to ‘full Vantage’ spec has stalled at the last and most expensive bit, the engine, but I did get a manual ‘box fitted, fitted the 16” Ronals and did the cosmetics. When I can drive it again I will just get the Adwest power steering rack reconditioned by PPS in Preston (£380 direct, £2500 via a ‘specialist’ to remove from car, send it to PPS for you and refit). The engine can wait until the inevitable liner seal failure then when rebuilt it will probably become fuel injected, like the OE ZF box, you just can’t get hold of the 48IDF carbs anymore, and in any case they all belch so much unburned HC out the back it is getting a bit embarrassing in this day and age. I reckon with fuel injection and maybe some catalysts to further avoid gassing those behind, and otherwise straight through pipes it would sound absolutely awesome….(and maybe not smell so bad)
Cue John Honeyballs old video of the best ever car engine sound….
https://youtu.be/it6Hny77PPM?si=JVQjRBvEXlauI2fQ
Edited by Calinours on Friday 25th August 15:17
mabbott said:
Calinours said:
My own cars evolution to ‘full Vantage’ spec has stalled at the last and most expensive bit, the engine, but I did get a manual ‘box fitted, fitted the 16” Ronals and did the cosmetics.
I know this would be heresy in some circles but if the car is already somewhat modified (albeit with Aston bits) a modern crate engine and gearbox conversion with all the extra tackle needed would be a realy interesting project and give you something way beyond what an X pack could provide for a relative fraction of cost. It would also be reversible if originality etc were still important. The more I think about that the more fun it could be ! Edited by Calinours on Friday 25th August 15:17
Does anyone know what the little purple ribbon or tag thing that has appeared next to the title is supposed to represent? I don’t have anything against the LGB lot but I wouldn’t be one for actively promoting ‘em
I think that was a special built for event drifting. It was a huge amount of work and yes pretty well done. From memory they were quite impressed with how robust the main drivetrain components were, shared as they were with the DB9 and it’s V12.
I wondered why they just didn’t use a ‘new’ Vantage, we now know it’s AMG turbo lump is good for 700hp.
I wondered why they just didn’t use a ‘new’ Vantage, we now know it’s AMG turbo lump is good for 700hp.
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