Bamford Rose Clutch and Flywheel Upgrade
Discussion
I have just picked up my car (one of the v8 AMR's) from Bamford Rose after having the lightweight flywheel and twin plate clutch installed. The original clutch and flywheel didnt need replacing, but I wanted to improve this specific aspect of the car. I was struggling to find someone's experience of just this modification in isolation, as most people do this in combination with the manifolds upgrade, or have already done the manifolds and then do the clutch/LWFW. There are a few who have installed other kits, like the AMR kit from Aston Martin themselves, but as I have since discovered, none of these kits are identical, and in fact the weight of the flywheel varies depending on which company you go for (the AMR/VelocityAP/BR etc). From a bit of research, the BR flywheel was the lightest (doesnt necessarily mean the best btw, just point this out for general information) saving 7kg from the standard 4.7 flywheel. That may not sound like a big difference, but considering that when aston moved from the 4.3 to the 4.7 and lightened the flywheel to make the engine more responsive, they reduced the weight only by 0.5kg. Of course in that scenario there are other factors at play like engine changes, but it does go to show that a 7kg weight difference is a fairly substantial difference when it comes to a flywheel. Anyway, enough background onto the changes in how the car behaves...
The upgrades to the clutch and flywheel have affected the car in many small ways, that cumulatively add up to make a noteable difference. Firstly, the clutch pedal is much lighter, which means you have a bit control over the pedal, and then it feels more natural to be pressed/released faster. It also makes the car much easier to drive in stop start traffic. Secondly, yes, the engine is slightly more responsive both in increasing and decreasing revs. This change also seems to become greater the higher up the rev range you go, and above 3/4k the engine pulls with quite a bit more urgency than before. This has the side benefit of making the whole car a bit faster, as the engine is not fighting itself to spin up. Again, this is most felt at the top half of the rev range. The quicker falling revs when the clutch is depressed also makes downshifting and heal/toeing to be faster and easier. Thirdly, due to the reduced flywheel weight, when downshifting normally (ie not rev matching), you no longer have that lurch when you release the clutch and the engine is building revs on its own to match the speed of the car (without throttle application). This means that the car is far more stable when downshifting, even when not heal and toeing, and it also means you dont need to be perfect with your heal/toe technique, as the engine is able to spin up much easier then before. Fourthly, it makes pulling away without stalling easier for some reason, even though logic would say it (a LWFW) should make stalling more likely. I am not sure why this is. It may be a combination of the lighter clutch pedal, and the slightly more responsive engine means the car is able to react to the small throttle/clutch pedal changes faster, so you dont end up stalling. Fifth and final benefit is the change to the gear change itself. The throw of the gearchange is slightly shorter, but the biggest difference is how much precise the gear ratio slots feel. The normal gearbox is not a box that likes to be rushed, but now it can. Add this to the previous benefits, and you get a transmission that is now very rewarding to use, and can be shifted quicker.
Sorry for the long post, but I hope this helps anyone in the future with this particular upgrade. As one can see, individually the changes are not night and day, but combined they come together to change the car from a car that was most happy at 7/10ths driving intensity, to a car that happily does 10/10ths driving now. It is a lovely upgrade that as far as i can see has zero comprises, even when not pushing on, unlike most modifications. As for BR, they were professional, quick and clearly care about what rolls out of their workshop.
Enjoy your Astons and stay safe!
The upgrades to the clutch and flywheel have affected the car in many small ways, that cumulatively add up to make a noteable difference. Firstly, the clutch pedal is much lighter, which means you have a bit control over the pedal, and then it feels more natural to be pressed/released faster. It also makes the car much easier to drive in stop start traffic. Secondly, yes, the engine is slightly more responsive both in increasing and decreasing revs. This change also seems to become greater the higher up the rev range you go, and above 3/4k the engine pulls with quite a bit more urgency than before. This has the side benefit of making the whole car a bit faster, as the engine is not fighting itself to spin up. Again, this is most felt at the top half of the rev range. The quicker falling revs when the clutch is depressed also makes downshifting and heal/toeing to be faster and easier. Thirdly, due to the reduced flywheel weight, when downshifting normally (ie not rev matching), you no longer have that lurch when you release the clutch and the engine is building revs on its own to match the speed of the car (without throttle application). This means that the car is far more stable when downshifting, even when not heal and toeing, and it also means you dont need to be perfect with your heal/toe technique, as the engine is able to spin up much easier then before. Fourthly, it makes pulling away without stalling easier for some reason, even though logic would say it (a LWFW) should make stalling more likely. I am not sure why this is. It may be a combination of the lighter clutch pedal, and the slightly more responsive engine means the car is able to react to the small throttle/clutch pedal changes faster, so you dont end up stalling. Fifth and final benefit is the change to the gear change itself. The throw of the gearchange is slightly shorter, but the biggest difference is how much precise the gear ratio slots feel. The normal gearbox is not a box that likes to be rushed, but now it can. Add this to the previous benefits, and you get a transmission that is now very rewarding to use, and can be shifted quicker.
Sorry for the long post, but I hope this helps anyone in the future with this particular upgrade. As one can see, individually the changes are not night and day, but combined they come together to change the car from a car that was most happy at 7/10ths driving intensity, to a car that happily does 10/10ths driving now. It is a lovely upgrade that as far as i can see has zero comprises, even when not pushing on, unlike most modifications. As for BR, they were professional, quick and clearly care about what rolls out of their workshop.
Enjoy your Astons and stay safe!
Dewi 2 said:
I was interested in your weight difference figures for flywheels. The change in flywheel effect must relate to percentage weight difference.
Do you know the weight of a standard 4.7 flywheel? Sorry, being lazy asking, because my old one is in my garage.
Perhaps the negligible 0.5kg reduction 4.3 to 4.7, was to give the marketing people something extra to say!
There are some cars now, where the decrease in engine revs is artificially controlled. Most annoying when engine revs reduce more slowly than expected. Foot off accelerator and clutch pedal down pedal, then wait a moment for the engine speed to reduce. Most odd, and I don't know why the engineers make that happen.
Some V8 Vantages have a more pronounced gear chatter, after a the twin plate clutch and lighter flywheel have been fitted. Did you notice that with your own car? It does however seem to reduce a bit as mileage increases. This occurance varies car to car.
I am not sure what the OEM weighs, but I will be weighing it once I dig it out as well, as I am also intrigued by this.Do you know the weight of a standard 4.7 flywheel? Sorry, being lazy asking, because my old one is in my garage.
Perhaps the negligible 0.5kg reduction 4.3 to 4.7, was to give the marketing people something extra to say!
There are some cars now, where the decrease in engine revs is artificially controlled. Most annoying when engine revs reduce more slowly than expected. Foot off accelerator and clutch pedal down pedal, then wait a moment for the engine speed to reduce. Most odd, and I don't know why the engineers make that happen.
Some V8 Vantages have a more pronounced gear chatter, after a the twin plate clutch and lighter flywheel have been fitted. Did you notice that with your own car? It does however seem to reduce a bit as mileage increases. This occurance varies car to car.
Edited by Dewi 2 on Friday 19th February 12:52
No, I have not experienced any more chatter at all, although from what I understand it is highly car specific.
As for the engine revs in modern cars being controlled, it is called "rev hang" and is done on purpose to make sure all the fuel is fully combused for emissions reasons. Annoying, but hey ho!
NickXX said:
I noticed this too - but thought it was just a placebo from having a lighter clutch pedal. Do you know why the gear slots/throw would have changed?
I think there are 2 things going on here one is the new slave cylinder, and the shorted throw is to be with the fulcrum point of the cables on the gear lever being slightly altered. Or at least this is what I was told!from a bit more research, this is what I have been able to find (although I am not sure if these are accurate) on each package's weight reduction:
AMR twin plate clutch and flywheel: -0 kg (this is apparently due to any changes in the flywheel weight would mean Aston Martin would have to re-run emissions tests, which they didnt. The benefit of this package is the weight of the flywheel has been moved more towards the centre, reducing rotational inertia that way).
Velocity AP twin plate clutch and flywheel: -3.2 kg
Bamford Rose twin plate clutch and flywheel: -7kg
Again, these figures are pulled from various sources, so I am not sure how accurate they are!
AMR twin plate clutch and flywheel: -0 kg (this is apparently due to any changes in the flywheel weight would mean Aston Martin would have to re-run emissions tests, which they didnt. The benefit of this package is the weight of the flywheel has been moved more towards the centre, reducing rotational inertia that way).
Velocity AP twin plate clutch and flywheel: -3.2 kg
Bamford Rose twin plate clutch and flywheel: -7kg
Again, these figures are pulled from various sources, so I am not sure how accurate they are!
Just wanted to give an update to this thread as I have recently had Bamford Rose's Stage 3 power pack installed on the vantage. For ease of reference that means equal length exhaust manifolds, an ECU remap, sports secondary cats and a three-way exhaust valve switch. For the record, I have not put the car on the dyno.
Lets get the small stuff out of the way first. The 3-way switch is brilliant, as it allows you to run the car in quiet mode 100% of the time, which other 2-way switches do not. With the 2-way switches, it is either standard or always loud. Aside from being able to turn the car on quietly if you happen to be leaving early in the morning, it means you can always leave the car in sport even if you are cruising on the motorway, whereas before cruising in sport would mean the valves would open at 3k revs which is basically cruising speed. The switch also means you can do trackdays if you are that way inclined.
Noise. Mike at BR suggested that i go for the unbaffled secondary cats do to my car being one of the later models that have a quieter rear silencer than earlier models. He said going with the baffled cats slightly changes the tone of the exhaust, and I can confirm that the noise now is the same tone as before the modifications. it terms of volume, it is just slightly louder than my car was before, however my car had the secondary cats removed already. So if you are coming from stock, then this would be significantly louder.
ECU remap. I will save the performance benefits related to this for later, but an important aspect to the remap is how the car now behaves in start stop traffic. the remap actually makes the car far smoother and less likely to stall or bog down when setting off. I discussed this with Mike at BR and he said the reason for the tendency to stall or bog down is Ford's anti-stall software doing a terrible job and actually making it worse. The remap has removed this issue and feels far more refined now.
Now to the performance aspect. Wow. At first you think there isn't that much difference when you are casually driving around, but get above 4k revs and the gains become very apparent! The car is much more urgent and actually feels properly rapid. For context, at the top third of the revs, the car now feels faster than a 991.2 GTS if anyone has driven one of those. The car now feels like a full on sports car, and you have to treat the throttle pedal with respect. It is a properly rapid car now.
Overall I am very happy with the upgrade. Is it worth the money? probably not, but then again nothing in Aston land is worth the money anyway.
Having done the clutch/flywheel and manifolds mods in isolation, I can say that the clutch/flywheel is the most impactful one, and the one I would recommend to do first.
I am so happy with the car now with all the modifications. Crucially nothing feels modified, and in fact the car feels more refined than stock. This is how the AMR's should have come from factory, even more so for the GT8s.
Lets get the small stuff out of the way first. The 3-way switch is brilliant, as it allows you to run the car in quiet mode 100% of the time, which other 2-way switches do not. With the 2-way switches, it is either standard or always loud. Aside from being able to turn the car on quietly if you happen to be leaving early in the morning, it means you can always leave the car in sport even if you are cruising on the motorway, whereas before cruising in sport would mean the valves would open at 3k revs which is basically cruising speed. The switch also means you can do trackdays if you are that way inclined.
Noise. Mike at BR suggested that i go for the unbaffled secondary cats do to my car being one of the later models that have a quieter rear silencer than earlier models. He said going with the baffled cats slightly changes the tone of the exhaust, and I can confirm that the noise now is the same tone as before the modifications. it terms of volume, it is just slightly louder than my car was before, however my car had the secondary cats removed already. So if you are coming from stock, then this would be significantly louder.
ECU remap. I will save the performance benefits related to this for later, but an important aspect to the remap is how the car now behaves in start stop traffic. the remap actually makes the car far smoother and less likely to stall or bog down when setting off. I discussed this with Mike at BR and he said the reason for the tendency to stall or bog down is Ford's anti-stall software doing a terrible job and actually making it worse. The remap has removed this issue and feels far more refined now.
Now to the performance aspect. Wow. At first you think there isn't that much difference when you are casually driving around, but get above 4k revs and the gains become very apparent! The car is much more urgent and actually feels properly rapid. For context, at the top third of the revs, the car now feels faster than a 991.2 GTS if anyone has driven one of those. The car now feels like a full on sports car, and you have to treat the throttle pedal with respect. It is a properly rapid car now.
Overall I am very happy with the upgrade. Is it worth the money? probably not, but then again nothing in Aston land is worth the money anyway.
Having done the clutch/flywheel and manifolds mods in isolation, I can say that the clutch/flywheel is the most impactful one, and the one I would recommend to do first.
I am so happy with the car now with all the modifications. Crucially nothing feels modified, and in fact the car feels more refined than stock. This is how the AMR's should have come from factory, even more so for the GT8s.
Gassing Station | Aston Martin | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff