Man After My Own Heart ... The Future Isn't Electric

[BiggaJ]

https://www-motorious-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/w...

Does Reichmann talk sense?

[BiggaJ]

Finding Neutral said:

Yep and any bridge to anything, I.E creating vehicles and all the r&d that goes in to them is awful for the planet. So bridging the gap is not exactly a good thing.

We are being led up the garden path again - as usual.


If governments really wanted to reduce emissions they’d stop companies manufacturing so much stuff and deal with that. But they won’t, because they don’t want to harm the economy. Sadly this “green revolution” which I am very confident will achieve very little ultimately but will probably cause many manufacturers to go under anyway (and still not hit the goals).

To me cars etc are small fry. And most of what is currently popular as “green” isn’t actually green it’s just people and companies trying to out PC each other. Not many actually care. They just say the right things / have to be seen to. We live in an era where saying the politically correct thing is more important than actually doing the right thing.
You’re shot down and shamed now if you question anything. It’s truly nuts.

You can’t tell me that creating a st load of ev’s, all earths materials that go in to it, not to mention it is finite, the infrastructure role out.. and the fact that in 5/10/15 years all the stuff now will be st and out of date. Making all of this stuff is not good for the environment!

Blind leading the blind.

Why anyone would believe our government after the last two years performance is beyond me. What it has proven though is that by large, the population is very easy to control.

So yes… ev’s are the future… until they aren’t anymore.

Edited by Finding Neutral on Saturday 16th April 21:30

Couldn't agree more .... It will all come back around just like Diesel has.

[BiggaJ]

phumy said:

In the UK it doesnt matter where you live all power is generated and delivered the same, as its fed into a national grid we all get equal amounts of green power and non green power.

I saw a map once that detailed where the greenest electricity was located and inevitably it's in northern Scotland which is probably the place you will find the least amount of charging points (no evidence to back this claim up, just my thoughts based on number of people living in that area).

Anyhow, this link shows the best and worst or most and least green and the highly populated areas are the least green .... Go figure!!

https://www.uswitch.com/gas-electricity/guides/how...

Edited by BiggaJ on Monday 18th April 15:16

[BiggaJ]

@8 Tech.

I agree with you in Hydrogen being the future, I've been saying it for some time and know retired guys who've spent years in the truck industry that are also saying the same thing.

As you say, those backing electric have to make their fortune.

[BiggaJ]

Evanivitch said:

I'm intrigued.

The only 8 year old PHEVs I know are Ampera's, Outlander and i3 REX. None are £50,000.

Not quite £50k but my 2019 Outlander (company purchase) fully loaded was only a few grand shy of that figure.

In short, very poor range from both electric and petrol...fuel tank is reduced in capacity due to battery pack! Quality of interior is poor, reliability has been good so far with around 60k on the clock from new. This figure would be near 100k had we not have been locked down for large parts of the last few years.

I'm not surprised Mitsubishi have pulled out of Europe, they are way off the pace in terms of quality, fit and finish when compared to alternatives.

[BiggaJ]

Evanivitch said:

BiggaJ said:

Not quite £50k but my 2019 Outlander (company purchase) fully loaded was only a few grand shy of that figure.

Impressive given the top spec was £35k after the government grants. Wasn't aware Mitsubishi had a Porsche style options list.

Mine was the last of the 5HS models and the dealer then threw all the options at it. I think the government were still running the grant scheme at the time (can't fully recall) so would have dropped the list by a few K I guess.

I seem to remember looking at the P11D value when doing my tax return and thinking it was a lot of money for the type of car .... From my rusty memory a figure close to £47k I think.

[BiggaJ]

DodgyGeezer said:

twas always going to be thus - the government will be looking to raise as much revenue as possible from electric cars sooner rather than later. ANyone who thinks otherwise is (possibly) deluded

Totally agree, get everyone into so called "green" cars pushed through by legislation, make it appetising in the first place to get the ball rolling then once they become the norm hit the owner for doing as they are told.

[BiggaJ]

DAMIT said:

The point I was trying to make was that the EV is NOT cheap to run! Their energy consumption is way higher than you expect especially on motorways and in cold tempertures. The range is usually less than 50% than stated and charging on public chargers, if you can get one that works/ not being used, is SOO Slow. (last time out 17 miles/ 6.2kw added in 15 mins, when it just stopped charging) on a so called latest rapid charger supposed to charge at 100+kw.

I can't claim to know about all electric/petrol hybrids however, in my petrol hybrid and running it in the UK where the average temp must be say 12 Deg C taking into account all seasons of the year. My electric range goes from a max of 32 miles in very warm conditions to approx. 17 miles in winter. I don't get that range of course as it typically falls short every time but those numbers are what is typically quoted after a full charge on a 3 pin home wall charger.

It has the ability to rapid charge if I can be bothered to plug it in but in three years of ownership I've never plugged it in anywhere other than home.

I know this will be different for full electrics however, Richard on YouTube that runs the channel CTR (challenge the road) has just done a video comparing his previous full electric Q5 to his now Hybrid Q5 .... Hybrid wins in his evaluation. Worth a watch if interested.

Edited by BiggaJ on Wednesday 20th April 20:05

[BiggaJ]

98elise said:

BiggaJ said:

@8 Tech.

I agree with you in Hydrogen being the future, I've been saying it for some time and know retired guys who've spent years in the truck industry that are also saying the same thing.

As you say, those backing electric have to make their fortune.

HFC vehicles are also EV's.

Nobody is stopping the car industry from building Hydrogen cars. Toyota will sell you one right now.

The majority of car companies have decided to go BEV though.

I'm well aware Hydrogen powered cars are still EV however, the infrastructure with a little fettling is there in the form of filling stations, the fill time is minutes perhaps a little longer than petrol/diesel but quicker than electric and off you go again.

Given the mileages I frequently do I'm not prepared to have to wait 30 minutes or more to get to 80% charge .... This would add significant time to my journeys making appointments would mean having to leave greater time between them just in case I need to stop off of another coffee break while my car took in more electricity and that's before we factor in the ever more crowded roads and more hold ups.

I can see the point of electric cars for short hops and town driving but driving 500 - 1000 miles in a few days two or three times a month plus the usual daily commutes doesn't work for me with EV.

[BiggaJ]

DodgyGeezer said:

no no no - you don't understand you just have to plan your journeys. There are sufficient charging points and it's no longer overall than tanking up for your journey (am I doing this right?)

How is it no longer tanking up for a journey? If I have to stop for fuel it takes minutes, I don't need to take on more coffee waiting for my car to charge enough to drive a further questionable distance depending on outside temperature.

By the time you've charged I'm 30 mins down the road and that's a good 30 miles at motorway speeds.

[BiggaJ]

Just came across this.....


https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/357817/new-gree...

Edited by BiggaJ on Friday 22 April 19:32

[BiggaJ]

NMNeil said:

BiggaJ said:

Just came across this.....


https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/357817/new-gree...

Edited by BiggaJ on Friday 22 April 19:32

Keep on clutching at those straws.

Do you say the same about their safety rating system?

No straw clutching, the feature came up on my feed, didn't need to go looking for it. But gloss over it as it may throw doubt on the electric dream.

Edited by BiggaJ on Friday 22 April 21:00

[BiggaJ]

NMNeil said:

BiggaJ said:

Do you say the same about their safety rating system?

No straw clutching, the feature came up on my feed, didn't need to go looking for it. But gloss over it as it may throw doubt on the electric dream.

Edited by BiggaJ on Friday 22 April 21:00

It's about the erroneous belief that somehow the powers that be will one day say "O.K we got it wrong, EV's are terrible we're going back to the good old polluting ICE engine"
Then add the straw clutching of hydrogen, synthetic petrol and all the other hyped alternatives.
Not going to happen, the ICE era is fast coming to a close, and EV's are the way forward, accept it.

I have accepted it, I drive a PHEV as a daily but the real world take on it in my view and listening to others doesn't mean I will find my way into a full electric because I don't see them as the one size fits all that they are being pushed as by government.

[BiggaJ]

cardigankid said:

And may I suggest that you are the one producing it.

Why should we buy into a half baked technology which doesn't work for us? Why not sort the tech BEFORE they start selling them to the public, like they did with phones? Why should we buy a product because one day there will be better ones? It is a negation of logic. It is where political correctness was ultimately always going to lead us. Believe black is white, because we tell you to. We've even got people on Pistonheads claiming that heavy EV are good because you recover more energy. It defies science and common sense. We will be burning witches shortly at this rate. EV is only 'the future' or 'reality' because Boris (whose credibility is frankly zero) says it is. Do we choose to believe politicians who have consistently made catastrophic errors and even wilfully deceived us? Are we expected to take the word of a tranche of media luvvies, who make a mockery of the concept of independent thought? Are expected to equate David Attenborough with Jehovah?

There is no coherent argument for EV other than as a city taxi or runabout. We are just supposed to accept it. Everything has to be 'Net Zero'? Doesn't seem to apply to a major land war and all the javelin and stinger missiles we are supplying for it, though.

Do we or they really believe that long term Aston Martin customers, such as me, are going to buy into all the Eco-waffle contained in their recent ludicrous 'Racing.Green' release? If they actually do what they have said in that document, they will go bust. I predict that they won't sell an pure EV AM Sports GT. Not one. Even with their guacamole-based upholstery. We'll see.

True reality, the old stuff that has been around since the beginning of time (as opposed to politically convenient wokey alternative reality) is going to bite, and maybe sooner rather than later.

Thank you, very well put.

[BiggaJ]

Evanivitch said:

cardigankid said:

If EV's were that good everyone would have them already.

By that logic then Aston Martins must be rubbish because very few people have them.

Niche brand not mass market but I guess you know this already but want the last word with a quick quip.

[BiggaJ]

Evanivitch said:

BiggaJ said:

Evanivitch said:

cardigankid said:

If EV's were that good everyone would have them already.

By that logic then Aston Martins must be rubbish because very few people have them.

Niche brand not mass market but I guess you know this already but want the last word with a quick quip.

Similarly a 30kWh EV is a pretty niche product when it was £30k just a few years ago. But things are changing quickly as they become more affordable and versatile.

So no, not a quip, but an attempt at returning logic to the discussion. You seem to have taken it quite personally as a jib at AM, but I guess when you're ego is attached to what you drive it's little surprise.

Nothing personal about it, my daily drive is a PHEV Mitsubishi so I'm aware of what can be offered by full electric and hybrids however, as I keep pointing out the government propaganda associated with EV is that's is a one size fits all scenario. And it isn't, all hopes are being pinned on electric or nothing and lines have been drawn in the sand as to when we have to get out of glass guzzlers etc.

Fact is, it makes very little difference what we do in the UK, Norway, Sweden and the rest when you have countries like China, Russia, India with their incredibly sized populations (China and India) that make London look like a village and the so called world powers don't do anything to pull them in line and start making headway with alternate, Greener energy sources.

We can potter about in an ev untill the cows come home and pay handsomely through the nose for a car then get taxed to high heaven for doing as we've been told yet we will not make a dent in making an ice cap last longer without the aforementioned countries and others making the change as we have too.

[BiggaJ]

Evanivitch said:

You realise it's about more than just CO2 or have you just woken up?

So what?!

Edited by BiggaJ on Friday 29th April 20:03

[BiggaJ]

Evanivitch said:

BiggaJ said:

Evanivitch said:

You realise it's about more than just CO2 or have you just woken up?

So what?!

Edited by BiggaJ on Friday 29th April 20:03

So claiming that it's pointless because "China" makes no sense because China has zero impact on local pollution in villages, towns and cities in the UK.

But has world impact and it is the planet we are talking about not just a few towns in the UK.

[BiggaJ]

Evanivitch said:

BiggaJ said:

Evanivitch said:

BiggaJ said:

Evanivitch said:

You realise it's about more than just CO2 or have you just woken up?

So what?!

Edited by BiggaJ on Friday 29th April 20:03

So claiming that it's pointless because "China" makes no sense because China has zero impact on local pollution in villages, towns and cities in the UK.

But has world impact and it is the planet we are talking about not just a few towns in the UK.

So there are benefits to society in driving electric cars because they reduce local pollution. Glad you agree. Got you there in the end.

But they don't, the life cycle of getting the ingredients to China for them to make the batteries using coal fired power etc.

I know you aren't that dim so stop acting like it.

[BiggaJ]

Evanivitch said:

BiggaJ said:

But they don't, the life cycle of getting the ingredients to China for them to make the batteries using coal fired power etc.

I know you aren't that dim so stop acting like it.

The ingredients

Do you think batteries are only made in China?

Do you think China only has coal electricity generation?

I work with China and India daily. Ingredients, components call them what you like but you know what I mean.

Shipping is also an area I am heavily and daily involved in. China has 6 of the 10 world's largest ports, ships are bunker fuel burning and any ship being put into service today is there for the next 35-40 years.

The components going to China from all over the world are transported in ships, virtually everything you look at or use has been brought to you by a ship.

So when you look at the life cycle of EV it's got to include this element amongst others.

I'm not anti EV, I'm anti the one size fits all attitude that people like you and governments believe it to be.

You surely start with the major polluters as in China etc. not little old UK to make the biggest change.

Edited by BiggaJ on Saturday 30th April 23:58