I had an IS300h for a weekend - here's what I thought
Discussion
After reading tons of reviews, watching loads of youtube videos and asking questions Here - I currently have an IS300h for a weekend long test drive.
The short version is I think I'm probably going to get one - but here's what I think. I read this back after I wrote it, and looks like I'm really labouring on the bad points - but I was really pretty impressed.
Reference point: I'll be trading in a 2.0T Audi avant (2006) with nearly no interesting gadgets
The good
The bad and the unexpected..
Thought I'd give this it's section as it's the most often called 'bad' thing about the car. Honestly - it's not great. Not terrible, but not great. I can't work out if it's the box limiting the torque or the engine just isn't that powerful, but what happens if you nail it (say an overtake) is that the revs go right up, but the car doesn't accelerate with any great urgency. I wouldn't call it slow, but its not going to be an overtaking machine.
Not sure that the paddles do a whole lot - they do fiddle with the revs, but I think they are a bit of a gimmick.
The short version is I think I'm probably going to get one - but here's what I think. I read this back after I wrote it, and looks like I'm really labouring on the bad points - but I was really pretty impressed.
Reference point: I'll be trading in a 2.0T Audi avant (2006) with nearly no interesting gadgets
The good
- Its really well screwed together - all of the doors 'thunk' when you shut them and the plastics are nice and have a really quality feel to them
- Fantastic round town.... its pretty nippy off the line
- Quite impressed with the handling - I expected it to be quite a lot more wallowy, but its pretty taught and doesn't roll much in the corners.
- I'd say it's 'wafty' fast - my Audi gives you a thump in the back from the turbo, the Lexus doesn't - it's very smooth - you definitely get to 60/70 mph pretty quickly, but it's not much of an 'event'.
- I love the technology - bluetooth/nav etc - I do get this probably isn't that much different from any other car with this, but I'm coming from a car with virtually no gadgets, so easy to impress I guess.
- I quite liked the regen effect on the braking - takes a bit of getting used to - as soon as you stroke the brake pedal, you get a much stronger braking force than you'd expect. Perhaps not everyone's cup of tea, but I liked it.
The bad and the unexpected..
- The drivetrain takes a bit of getting used to. Stuff like pulling up to a roundabout, on the brakes, you realise you are braking a little too hard and lift off a bit... it gives you a bit of a shove forward, which can be a bit unexpected.
- Going quickly from brake to throttle... e.g from standstill at the lights, although it's quick once it does start moving, it's a little hesitant for the first 3/4 of a second or so.. doesn't sound much, and I reckon you can probably adapt your style to take it into account, but can be a little disconcerting...
- Engine doesn't really sound like it likes being revved. I'd say it's best at about 7 tenths acceleration; push it harder and it doesn't really want to do it, and you don't really get a lot more out of the car. it has a funny little dial you can twiddle to control the about of noise that's piped into the cabin from the engine - this is not an engine who's noise you really wanting to be listening to at full chat. An M3 CSL noise it is not.
- I can imagine that the BMW 330e with it's turbo'd 2.0 is probably much better to drive - but then it's nearly double a month on the PCP deal.
Thought I'd give this it's section as it's the most often called 'bad' thing about the car. Honestly - it's not great. Not terrible, but not great. I can't work out if it's the box limiting the torque or the engine just isn't that powerful, but what happens if you nail it (say an overtake) is that the revs go right up, but the car doesn't accelerate with any great urgency. I wouldn't call it slow, but its not going to be an overtaking machine.
Not sure that the paddles do a whole lot - they do fiddle with the revs, but I think they are a bit of a gimmick.
I wrote my original post half way through the test drive, and in the end I couldn't do it.
The straw that broke the camels back was the saloon format. I had some stuff to do on the weekend, which involved picking up some boxes and stuff - I can't remember the last time I had to worry about fitting anything into the Audi (A4 Avant).. and it was well annoying having to try and tessellate everything into the is300h. I get that this isn't really the lexus's fault - would have been the case with any saloon. I could have gotten the Rx or the Nx if I loved the lexus 'thing' - but I didn't, because of the reasons below.
If you are considering it - here's my verdict.
- the gearbox is really annoying, you'd really have to think about overtaking unless you have tons of room. In only a weekend it went from 'meh' to 'thats super annoying'
- The engine is astonishingly underwhelming (its 2.5L after all.. ). Sounds droney, and laborious at high revs.
- The economy isn't brilliant for a hybrid. I got 42mpg on my weekend. I'd forgive the lacklustre performance for 90/100mpg, but not for 42...
- The engine is very quick to kick in, which I think really reduces the benefit of the hybrid system. Moderate acceleration, or going above about 18mph will see the engine come in, even if you press the EV button.
I think it would be a great car if you lived in the middle of a big city (i.e tons and tons of really stop/start traffic), wanted a whiff of luxury and didn't care about driving that much.
I think if they put a turbo on the engine, and a proper DSG or torque converter ZF box, it would be a world better, I could imagine that the BMW 330e would be a great machine.
Its a beautifully screwed together car, I just would like to grab mr lexus and shout
"why didn't you put a turbo on it, fit a proper gearbox and make it fun to drive.. you'd have knocked it out of the park then!"
.. I'm now driving around in a golf R estate - yes, a very different car, but I think having the lexus for the weekend made me realise what I like.
The straw that broke the camels back was the saloon format. I had some stuff to do on the weekend, which involved picking up some boxes and stuff - I can't remember the last time I had to worry about fitting anything into the Audi (A4 Avant).. and it was well annoying having to try and tessellate everything into the is300h. I get that this isn't really the lexus's fault - would have been the case with any saloon. I could have gotten the Rx or the Nx if I loved the lexus 'thing' - but I didn't, because of the reasons below.
If you are considering it - here's my verdict.
- the gearbox is really annoying, you'd really have to think about overtaking unless you have tons of room. In only a weekend it went from 'meh' to 'thats super annoying'
- The engine is astonishingly underwhelming (its 2.5L after all.. ). Sounds droney, and laborious at high revs.
- The economy isn't brilliant for a hybrid. I got 42mpg on my weekend. I'd forgive the lacklustre performance for 90/100mpg, but not for 42...
- The engine is very quick to kick in, which I think really reduces the benefit of the hybrid system. Moderate acceleration, or going above about 18mph will see the engine come in, even if you press the EV button.
I think it would be a great car if you lived in the middle of a big city (i.e tons and tons of really stop/start traffic), wanted a whiff of luxury and didn't care about driving that much.
I think if they put a turbo on the engine, and a proper DSG or torque converter ZF box, it would be a world better, I could imagine that the BMW 330e would be a great machine.
Its a beautifully screwed together car, I just would like to grab mr lexus and shout
"why didn't you put a turbo on it, fit a proper gearbox and make it fun to drive.. you'd have knocked it out of the park then!"
.. I'm now driving around in a golf R estate - yes, a very different car, but I think having the lexus for the weekend made me realise what I like.
yup - sorry - I didn't mean to compare the lexus to the golf - they are very different,
I'm not really sure about the 'getting used' to the CVT box though - most test drives are about half an hour. I had the car for the whole weekend and my view of it just got worse and worse. I definitely think its not slow and its not going to match a bi-turbo 'thurmp' in the back, but it didn't feel like a 220BHP car. If I needed longer than a weekend to get used to the box, I'd be taking quite a punt on buying the car in the hope I'd get used it.
... I think really... I'm just a bit gutted that the car could have been so much more. Beautifully engineered, and the service at the dealership was A1 - but I just wasn't convinced by the drivetrain. I think if I lived in a big city and spent more time at very low speed crawling around in traffic, it would have made more sense and I'd have invested the time to learn it.
I read all the reviews, and watched all the youtube videos before I did the test drive - they nearly all said the CVT box was the weak spot - I really wanted them to be wrong... but I don't think they were in the end. Of course... all my humble opinion...
I'm not really sure about the 'getting used' to the CVT box though - most test drives are about half an hour. I had the car for the whole weekend and my view of it just got worse and worse. I definitely think its not slow and its not going to match a bi-turbo 'thurmp' in the back, but it didn't feel like a 220BHP car. If I needed longer than a weekend to get used to the box, I'd be taking quite a punt on buying the car in the hope I'd get used it.
... I think really... I'm just a bit gutted that the car could have been so much more. Beautifully engineered, and the service at the dealership was A1 - but I just wasn't convinced by the drivetrain. I think if I lived in a big city and spent more time at very low speed crawling around in traffic, it would have made more sense and I'd have invested the time to learn it.
I read all the reviews, and watched all the youtube videos before I did the test drive - they nearly all said the CVT box was the weak spot - I really wanted them to be wrong... but I don't think they were in the end. Of course... all my humble opinion...
Super Slo Mo said:
...
Overtakes are fine too, while it's not in the same league as my bike (neither is a Golf R),
.. yup - the golf isn't as quick as my bike either... I agree with you. Overtakes are fine too, while it's not in the same league as my bike (neither is a Golf R),
Super Slo Mo said:
...
The performance doesn't feel as quick as it actually is, it's very linear so you get virtually all of the power at any road speed, but it then doesn't ramp up like it does in a normal car so it doesn't feel like it's accelerating.
... yes, agreed... I think in the end that just wasn't for me. The performance doesn't feel as quick as it actually is, it's very linear so you get virtually all of the power at any road speed, but it then doesn't ramp up like it does in a normal car so it doesn't feel like it's accelerating.
Super Slo Mo said:
It would be a very dull world if we all liked the same thing. For me this is the first auto gearbox that I've actually got along with, I usually hate them with a passion.
Yup - of course. But this being PH and all, I just don't think that the is300h is very sporty. Its probably not pretending to be, but I thought I'd leave my perspective here, in case it's useful to others. FWIW, the DSG box in my golf is the only auto I think I've every really got on it.
.. I'd love to know if anyone has the RC300h, which I think has the same drive train and probably is trying to be sporty.
alpaca85 said:
However, I could not get on with that CVT 'box. True, you DO get used to it, but I hated it. From around 6 months in I was wishing time away, the lease becoming akin to a 2yr sentence with this droning monster. As the OP mentioned, if Lexus could fit a decent DSG or ZF 'box, it would utterly transform the car, as it handles really well, looks good and is very keenly priced!
Exactly this... the drone was really bad. I don't mind fake engine noise, I'm pretty at least some of the noise that my golf makes is enhanced or maybe even synthesised, but it sounds pretty wicked. The drone of the lexus was awful. I also had an inkling I'd be wishing the time away, which is why I went and looked elsewhere. I still think that the BMW e drive train with the proper auto and a turbo would be fantastic.
I suppose the IS doesn't really have sporty pretentions - so I'm being a little harsh. I'd still love to hear from someone that has the RC300h which I think has the same drivetrain - I'd be really fed up if I'd bought that as I think that really is trying to be sporty.
I can imagine in london (or other big city) it would be great, and maybe even as a motorway mile muncher, but for any kind of out of town b road driving it fell far short.
blearyeyedboy said:
We ended up a little downmarket of the OP, in an Octavia vRS estate. Enjoying it but I'm hoping someone makes a few more alternatives by the time it comes up for replacement in a few years' time.
I think bmw's 'E' drive train is probably the one to watch. Hopefully they will make a 330e touring which would be an absolute belter. The lexus could be too if they put in a proper gearbox and a turbo - but my guess is they won't.... conkerman said:
Why would they want to do that?
It would defeat some of the benefits of the current Toyota system.
no doubt; I've read many times about the efficiencies of CVT (something about always running at optimum torque) - but the rationale perhaps leaves aside driver enjoyment and engagement. I'm sure the other drive trains are less efficient, but I'd also wager they are more engaging and fun to drive. It would defeat some of the benefits of the current Toyota system.
not everyone wants that, but I do - and I found it lacking in the lexus. As I said before - i think if I spend more time in the city or up and down motorways (at constant speed), it would probably make more sense. As soon as you hit some open twisty road, it was boring.
conkerman said:
There are also paddle/manual mode available, but I haven't really used them, I just let the car get on with it, it is probably better at it than I am! 
.. I did try the paddles - they didn't do much - the needle moved a bit and it made more (not very nice noise) - but not much more than that. Gassing Station | Japanese Chat | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff