Ulez Debacle for Jap imports
Discussion
Hi,
Have read through a few threads on here and I also found 1 specific for the topic but it appears to have not been updated. Wonder if anyone could give their take/thoughts and which way it may go?
My issue is that I would like to change my 8 seater people carrier (euro 3) to a more up to date petrol model. Have been looking at Honda Elysion 3.0 VCM but have come across the obvious no euro classification. Imports attract a capped tax bracket I believe and the emission part of the v5 is never completed. Obviously the old emission classes also didn't take into account particulate matter. Have found a few examples online and put the plates on the ULEZ checker and the ones that are 55 plates seem to all pass but prior do not (despite having what I believe is the same engine). What bothers me is the large disclaimer at the bottom of the ULEZ checker where it says no claim against wrong info blah blah blah. It seems given that an 04 has the same engine and does not pass that the checker is based on date of manufacturer which is exactly against the statements made on the ULEZ page (unless of course they do have data and the ecu has a modified map). The car that I have seen has only just be registered so is not coming up on the database so I cannot check specifically but I do not value the information on the page that much anyway given the large disclaimer on the ULEZ checker.
Had a very interesting conversation with TFL yesterday they told me either choose a Euro car, or get the car tested by Honda ( this I would imagine would be 100k plus), or get certificate of conformity which I believe wont help anyway. I then questioned if I drive past an ANPR what will happen and the answer is that if no ULEZ data available then an immediate charge would be levied against the registered owner. If you dont think it is correct it is down to the owner to prove differently whatever happened to the legal framework in the UK of a presumption of innocence until proven guilty :-)
Tks
Have read through a few threads on here and I also found 1 specific for the topic but it appears to have not been updated. Wonder if anyone could give their take/thoughts and which way it may go?
My issue is that I would like to change my 8 seater people carrier (euro 3) to a more up to date petrol model. Have been looking at Honda Elysion 3.0 VCM but have come across the obvious no euro classification. Imports attract a capped tax bracket I believe and the emission part of the v5 is never completed. Obviously the old emission classes also didn't take into account particulate matter. Have found a few examples online and put the plates on the ULEZ checker and the ones that are 55 plates seem to all pass but prior do not (despite having what I believe is the same engine). What bothers me is the large disclaimer at the bottom of the ULEZ checker where it says no claim against wrong info blah blah blah. It seems given that an 04 has the same engine and does not pass that the checker is based on date of manufacturer which is exactly against the statements made on the ULEZ page (unless of course they do have data and the ecu has a modified map). The car that I have seen has only just be registered so is not coming up on the database so I cannot check specifically but I do not value the information on the page that much anyway given the large disclaimer on the ULEZ checker.
Had a very interesting conversation with TFL yesterday they told me either choose a Euro car, or get the car tested by Honda ( this I would imagine would be 100k plus), or get certificate of conformity which I believe wont help anyway. I then questioned if I drive past an ANPR what will happen and the answer is that if no ULEZ data available then an immediate charge would be levied against the registered owner. If you dont think it is correct it is down to the owner to prove differently whatever happened to the legal framework in the UK of a presumption of innocence until proven guilty :-)
Tks
@ Sjg the date is not relevant TFL even say that on the ULEZ pages. Some cars around 2000 are compliant. What grates me is that they have the page with the checker but have the heavy disclaimer so pointless for us checking, maybe they should have put do not use this page if your vehicle is imported from NON european region and certainly for the ones I have checked they should just say no results available.
There is a very interesting page after doing a search on a vehicle that has just be registered the page says that any vehicle registered after 2017 are exempt maybe that's a loophole :-) Havent looked at a recent V5 for what is on there?
There is a very interesting page after doing a search on a vehicle that has just be registered the page says that any vehicle registered after 2017 are exempt maybe that's a loophole :-) Havent looked at a recent V5 for what is on there?
Donbot (hopefully not offending you if your name is Donald)that is most helpful. Correct nothing to do with PM the requirements are
Euro 4 emission limits (petrol)
CO – 1.0 g/km
HC – 0.10 g/km
NOx – 0.08
PM – no limit
So a 5 gas analyser should give us what we need to know. Wonder if all the MOT stations will have to be updating their machines?
Euro 4 emission limits (petrol)
CO – 1.0 g/km
HC – 0.10 g/km
NOx – 0.08
PM – no limit
So a 5 gas analyser should give us what we need to know. Wonder if all the MOT stations will have to be updating their machines?
Hi, the one I am interested in like you say is coming up as no details due to it only just being registered it is a 55 plate which I haven't found many 3.0 examples only one found so far which was fine. Obviously got the heavy caveat on the checker that concerns me. Thanks for your interest :-)
Got through to Honda Japan. First person I spoke to put me through to someone else who English was much better than first and understood what I was requiring. She gave me an email to send may enquiry through to and I was hopefully. Got a reply to my email after about 20mins and thought magic but no cigar :-( Honda are saying cannot recommend a parallel import blah blah blah so wasn't that helpful. Below is the email.
Thank you for your phone call followed by e-mail to Honda Motor Co., Ltd.
We are delighted to successfully receive your e-mail.
However, according to the chassis number you provided with us, we
confirmed that this is a parallel imported vehicle.
While we appreciate your interest in our product, we would like to
inform you that we produce our vehicles for specific markets. Even
though some parts may be used jointly by different specification
models underlying construction, emission system, etc. may be very
different. Because each country establishes its own certification
testing standards, cars of a particular specification are tested only
for those markets. And if any vehicle of different specification is
used, problems with parts availability, differences in construction,
etc. can result in much aggravation and unnecessary delays for the
customer.
Thus, we do not recommend parallel car import because we are not able
to provide with our best assist for customers and product warranty
will be invalid for parallel import vehicles.
To our regret, we cannot be of any help for you on this issue.
We highly appreciate your kind understanding.
Sincerely yours,
Honda Motor Co., Ltd.
Thank you for your phone call followed by e-mail to Honda Motor Co., Ltd.
We are delighted to successfully receive your e-mail.
However, according to the chassis number you provided with us, we
confirmed that this is a parallel imported vehicle.
While we appreciate your interest in our product, we would like to
inform you that we produce our vehicles for specific markets. Even
though some parts may be used jointly by different specification
models underlying construction, emission system, etc. may be very
different. Because each country establishes its own certification
testing standards, cars of a particular specification are tested only
for those markets. And if any vehicle of different specification is
used, problems with parts availability, differences in construction,
etc. can result in much aggravation and unnecessary delays for the
customer.
Thus, we do not recommend parallel car import because we are not able
to provide with our best assist for customers and product warranty
will be invalid for parallel import vehicles.
To our regret, we cannot be of any help for you on this issue.
We highly appreciate your kind understanding.
Sincerely yours,
Honda Motor Co., Ltd.
Sorry to bring this thread back up but just got a major upset. The car I was looking at suddenly changed to ULEZ compliant so all good. It seems now that the ULEZ site has had some sort of update and now it i no longer compliant! Cannot believe it how can they change the goal posts not happy. Cannot find another 55plate that is compliant but these are not the most common cars in the world. I can find 2006 and they are compliant yet had same engine and no changes. I dont even have all the research that I found when I was trying to prove to TFL that the vehicle exceeded legislation in Japan in the future. Not Happy
Mine was showing it was compliant is my main issue and has now changed. Secondary issue that 2006 passes at this moment but the 2005 had same specification engine/ECU etc etc and now does not. The emissions criteria in Japan far exceeded the Euro4 and at the time the vehicle met 2010 future requirements in Japan. However proving it is difficult/impossible as you would never get Honda to say it is Euro4 as last time I checked Japan was not in Europe. Anyone else had similar experience with the status changing?
Found the below.
The Elysion’s 3.0-liter V6 i-VTEC engine features Honda's revolutionary variable cylinder management system, which shifts between three- and six-cylinder combustion in response to driving conditions for superior fuel economy at class-leading levels of power output and torque. Also available is a 2.4-liter 4-cylinder DOHC i-VTEC engine that delivers ample torque at normal cruising speeds. All models achieve a level of fuel economy 5% above 2010 standards, and boast 75% cleaner exhaust emissions than required by 2005 emissions standards, qualifying for Super Ultra-Low Emissions Vehicle (SU-LEV) certification from Japan's Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport, making them eligible for incentives under the Japanese government's Green Tax program.
Vehicles eligible for green tax benefits are those certified by the low-emission vehicles authorization system under the 2005 exhaust emission regulations. Vehicles with exhaust emissions 75 percent or lower than the levels required by 2005 exhaust emission regulations will be rated as " new four-star," and 50 percent or lower as "new three-star." Stickers will be placed on these vehicles to indicate their emissions reduction levels by the number of stars.
n Japan, all vehicles on the road must be certified by the government to meet safety and emissions requirements. Manufacturers have the option to undergo additional emissions certification to achieve superior emissions control status known as the four-star system. To obtain four-star status a vehicle must have emissions levels 75 percent below the 2005 standards. This allows manufacturers to advertise and sell their vehicles under the four star label, which is evaluated highly by the environmentally conscious Japanese auto consumer. 367 of the 827 passenger car models available for sale in Japan in 2008 carried the four-star label, including 310 of the 473 domestic passenger car models and 57 of the 354 imported passenger car models, according to calculations by the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association based on data from the Japanese Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism.
Elysion reduces harmful substances, NMHC (non-methane hydrocarbons), NOx (nitrogen oxides), and CO (carbon monoxide) in the exhaust gas. Acquired “75% reduction level” certification. At the same time, it achieves excellent fuel efficiency and suppresses CO 2 emissions, which are a cause of global warming . All types of FF vehicles and some 4WD vehicles achieved the “2010 fuel economy standard + 10% level”.
Euro 4 emissions standards (petrol)
CO: 1.0g/km
THC: 0.10g/km
NOx: 0.08g/km
Japan 2005 regs
CO: 1.15g/km
NMHC 0.05g/km
NOx 0.05g/km
SO given that the status is 4 star which is 75% below the 2005 regs it should pass easy CO is slightly higher but that is the maximum allowed at the time and the vehicle fell well below.
The Elysion’s 3.0-liter V6 i-VTEC engine features Honda's revolutionary variable cylinder management system, which shifts between three- and six-cylinder combustion in response to driving conditions for superior fuel economy at class-leading levels of power output and torque. Also available is a 2.4-liter 4-cylinder DOHC i-VTEC engine that delivers ample torque at normal cruising speeds. All models achieve a level of fuel economy 5% above 2010 standards, and boast 75% cleaner exhaust emissions than required by 2005 emissions standards, qualifying for Super Ultra-Low Emissions Vehicle (SU-LEV) certification from Japan's Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport, making them eligible for incentives under the Japanese government's Green Tax program.
Vehicles eligible for green tax benefits are those certified by the low-emission vehicles authorization system under the 2005 exhaust emission regulations. Vehicles with exhaust emissions 75 percent or lower than the levels required by 2005 exhaust emission regulations will be rated as " new four-star," and 50 percent or lower as "new three-star." Stickers will be placed on these vehicles to indicate their emissions reduction levels by the number of stars.
n Japan, all vehicles on the road must be certified by the government to meet safety and emissions requirements. Manufacturers have the option to undergo additional emissions certification to achieve superior emissions control status known as the four-star system. To obtain four-star status a vehicle must have emissions levels 75 percent below the 2005 standards. This allows manufacturers to advertise and sell their vehicles under the four star label, which is evaluated highly by the environmentally conscious Japanese auto consumer. 367 of the 827 passenger car models available for sale in Japan in 2008 carried the four-star label, including 310 of the 473 domestic passenger car models and 57 of the 354 imported passenger car models, according to calculations by the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association based on data from the Japanese Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism.
Elysion reduces harmful substances, NMHC (non-methane hydrocarbons), NOx (nitrogen oxides), and CO (carbon monoxide) in the exhaust gas. Acquired “75% reduction level” certification. At the same time, it achieves excellent fuel efficiency and suppresses CO 2 emissions, which are a cause of global warming . All types of FF vehicles and some 4WD vehicles achieved the “2010 fuel economy standard + 10% level”.
Euro 4 emissions standards (petrol)
CO: 1.0g/km
THC: 0.10g/km
NOx: 0.08g/km
Japan 2005 regs
CO: 1.15g/km
NMHC 0.05g/km
NOx 0.05g/km
SO given that the status is 4 star which is 75% below the 2005 regs it should pass easy CO is slightly higher but that is the maximum allowed at the time and the vehicle fell well below.
My problem is that they changed the status. That is just plain wrong. Have sent an email to them dont hold much hope as it normally is a robot who has no understanding and is just a script reader. Would be interested in if others have found the same. The website has changed by quite some margin with two options available now for vehicles that are not compliant. Devils advocate that was probably when the change took place. Previously there were other wooly statements on the page. Seems like very poor implementation.
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