Evo 6 Extreme RS450 - engine power cutting out
Discussion
It's been a while since something went wrong with my Evo, god forbid it went too long without a problem!
Thought I'd post here just to see if anyone has any ideas, as my Evo specialist is quite a trek from me so it's going to be a few weeks until I can get it to them.
In short, out of the blue and for no apparent reason, when I floor it, the boost starts to kick in but then at about 4,500 rpm, engine power just cuts with a bit of a shunt.
The only thing I can think that's happened is that I did go through some rather deep water.....accidentally as I had no idea quite how deep this water was that appeared across the road.
The car drives fine under no boost, but try and put my foot down and this happens.
Any ideas? I imagine it's one of those things impossible to diagnose just based on this post, but you never know.
Thought I'd post here just to see if anyone has any ideas, as my Evo specialist is quite a trek from me so it's going to be a few weeks until I can get it to them.
In short, out of the blue and for no apparent reason, when I floor it, the boost starts to kick in but then at about 4,500 rpm, engine power just cuts with a bit of a shunt.
The only thing I can think that's happened is that I did go through some rather deep water.....accidentally as I had no idea quite how deep this water was that appeared across the road.
The car drives fine under no boost, but try and put my foot down and this happens.
Any ideas? I imagine it's one of those things impossible to diagnose just based on this post, but you never know.
C5_Steve said:
Potentially stating the obvious but sounds like a boost/fuel cut issue if it feels like it's hitting a brick wall and cutting power. Check for any loose or disconnected vacuum hoses.
Do you have anything measuring boost levels? It would be useful if you could see what boost levels the engine thinks it's seeing as this sounds like it thinks it's over boosting.
You may have knocked something off in the water or potentially something is blocked maybe?
If water had gotten into the ECU I'd have expected more issues than the car just misreading the boost levels.
I do have a guy near where I live who specialises in American cars (he looks after my Corvette) and I take the Evo to him for servicing and basic check up - he's had a look at it but couldn't find anything obvious, so I would have thought he'd have been able to see something like the hoses etc (I did hope it would have been something like that, as it wouldn't be the first time it was a simple fix like that) Do you have anything measuring boost levels? It would be useful if you could see what boost levels the engine thinks it's seeing as this sounds like it thinks it's over boosting.
You may have knocked something off in the water or potentially something is blocked maybe?
If water had gotten into the ECU I'd have expected more issues than the car just misreading the boost levels.
I do have a boost controller, but it barely gets to any boost pressure before the cutting out issue occurs, so not sure overboost would be the issue, but then I'm no expert.
I did think the water might have done something like you say, but as above I would have thought my Corvette guy would certainly have spotted anything obvious like that, so annoyingly I think it might be something more involved.
KarlMac said:
It's worth checking plugs, the 4G63 eats them and can cause all sorts of running issues. For the sake of £20 and something you can do on the drive it's worth checking.
Yeah, good point, no harm me having a look actually, will get on with doing that before spending money sending it away Pepperpots said:
does power come back when you ease off? Might be a boost tube split or being squeezed
Yeah, drives fine off boost, and as you can imagine I immediately life off as soon as this issue happens and just carry on driving as normal. Obviously I haven't dared keep my foot down to see what happens beyond this cut out issue happening. Pepperpots said:
check air intake and turbo hoses for connection and splits, sounds like air is leaking under boost.
I'll have another good look around, but I would be surprised if between me and my Corvette mechanic we'd both missed something vaguely obvious like that, but here's hoping, as a simple fix is always welcome! C5_Steve said:
UTH said:
I do have a guy near where I live who specialises in American cars (he looks after my Corvette) and I take the Evo to him for servicing and basic check up - he's had a look at it but couldn't find anything obvious, so I would have thought he'd have been able to see something like the hoses etc (I did hope it would have been something like that, as it wouldn't be the first time it was a simple fix like that)
I do have a boost controller, but it barely gets to any boost pressure before the cutting out issue occurs, so not sure overboost would be the issue, but then I'm no expert.
I did think the water might have done something like you say, but as above I would have thought my Corvette guy would certainly have spotted anything obvious like that, so annoyingly I think it might be something more involved.
Ian Allen? I do have a boost controller, but it barely gets to any boost pressure before the cutting out issue occurs, so not sure overboost would be the issue, but then I'm no expert.
I did think the water might have done something like you say, but as above I would have thought my Corvette guy would certainly have spotted anything obvious like that, so annoyingly I think it might be something more involved.
The fuel cut is right around the rpm you're seeing this at so it does sound boost related but you could check the spark plugs as well as suggested as that's easy enough. I'd have expected it to run rough at all rpms if it's plugs though this sounds consistent.
I think it's well worth checking all the boost/vacuum/intercooler lines, as mentioned a split pipe may not show until under pressure so give the lines a squeeze and look for cracks/splits. If you can remove them even better as you can check underneath. From memory, there's not too much to trace and it'll be well worth the effort to save sending it off.
Who do you use for the Evo by the way?
I'll have a good poke around for split pipes etc when I'm checking the spark plugs - I've had many years of tiny issues on track days where I've spotted a hose that's popped off, so maybe I'll spot it again.
C5_Steve said:
UTH said:
No, Ian Goss, the only other Ian for Corvettes haha. Luckily he's 5 mins from my house, so a godsend for the Corvette, and great that he's been able to service the Evo, but as it's so highly tuned he said better to go back to my regular guys for this issue - Auto Torque up in Aylesbury. I used to live closer to them, so they've known my car for many years, but now from Surbiton to Aylesbury it's a serious trek - £180 quote to get it there on a trailer, or a very long drive and public transport back.
I'll have a good poke around for split pipes etc when I'm checking the spark plugs - I've had many years of tiny issues on track days where I've spotted a hose that's popped off, so maybe I'll spot it again.
That's handy for the Vette!I'll have a good poke around for split pipes etc when I'm checking the spark plugs - I've had many years of tiny issues on track days where I've spotted a hose that's popped off, so maybe I'll spot it again.
My geography isn't great and appreciate you've used Auto Torque for years and may want to stick to them but Hayes Dynotech (Erith Kent) may be a fair bit closer now? I used to take me Evo 8 there when I owned it and still use the other "normal" side of the garage for my car now. Bob there has been tuning Evo's for years and is well known, has a rolling road in house and runs one of his cars in the time attack series. If you do need to take it somewhere give them a call and see what they suggest.
wolfie28 said:
Can anyone local to you smoke test your car? Will show any leaks you may or may not have easily. Had this done on mine when it wouldn’t boost over 1bar. No real leaks of note on mine so they swapped the boost solenoid but still the same. Bit more digging and found that the boost controller had reset itself to factory settings of 1bar. Quick drive altering the controller and back up to 1.8 bar.
I know someone who I highly recommend that works on my Evo but they are in the Midlands. I can pass on his number/details if you need any help.
I'm going to have a poke around over the weekend at spark plugs, hoses etcI know someone who I highly recommend that works on my Evo but they are in the Midlands. I can pass on his number/details if you need any help.
Edited by wolfie28 on Friday 24th February 12:01
But to be honest I've half resigned myself to sending it to my specialist anyway.....it's not been there for a couple of years so I'm starting to convince myself that actually it's no bad thing to get them to give it a good bit of TLC anyway, I'm sure there are quite a few small jobs they'll find that are worth sorting out, and it'll be nice to get it back knowing it's had a proper 'check up' if you know what I mean.
Pepperpots said:
Piqued my interest this and it reminded me when I had my old car, a turbo nutter b
d 4 cylinder thing which had a boost issue.
Basically I would plant my right foot and the boost would build until it ended up over-boosting, unbeknown to me.
What happened was the wastegate stuck (rusty, needed some grease) and the ecu cut the ignition when the boost went too high to protect the engine. As soon as the boost dropped, it carried on as if nothing had happened.
Was mostly in 4th and 5th gear on the German autobahn.
Well.......that's very interesting you say that. d 4 cylinder thing which had a boost issue. Basically I would plant my right foot and the boost would build until it ended up over-boosting, unbeknown to me.
What happened was the wastegate stuck (rusty, needed some grease) and the ecu cut the ignition when the boost went too high to protect the engine. As soon as the boost dropped, it carried on as if nothing had happened.
Was mostly in 4th and 5th gear on the German autobahn.
My Corvette guy who looked it over said that he was 'surprised to see someone has welded the wastegate open'
I am very much wondering now if the welding he's referring to isn't welding, but rust/stuck as per your post.....
I've had a poke around, it looks like the wastegate is fine, spark plugs looked alright, although admittedly I did only check two, as I was already telling myself it's a better idea to send it off.
So it's getting collected tomorrow - annoying to be ploughing more money into it, but part of me does feel better knowing the people that know it best are going to give it some TLC and so it should come back free of all the little niggles.
So it's getting collected tomorrow - annoying to be ploughing more money into it, but part of me does feel better knowing the people that know it best are going to give it some TLC and so it should come back free of all the little niggles.
lambeth said:
Bit late now as the car has been sent away but I did have the same issue with mine after it had been away for a while to have some work down. I suspected the plugs had fouled themselves as the car had been moved about and started/ stopped with a cold engine. I bought new plugs and gapped them down as small as possible( as I am running higher boost) and also installed some updated coil packs from Rossport. Before I did this under full boost between 4000-5000 rpm I would get a violent cut out and backfire. The plugs and coil replacement cured this.
Interesting, will report back when they've looked at it, scheduled this week I think. They're doing cam belt and a few other bits too, so even if the power cut is a simple fix it's still worth sending it to them.
The car is still with them.
During their inspections etc they have found awful levels of rust, so they didn't even bother finding out what that initial problem was.
Long story short, it's either a HUGE expense on a full restoration, or it's basically not much better than scrap.
I'm devastated quite frankly, never thought I'd sell this car having owned it for 13 years, and now suddenly the last time I drove it onto the back of that truck might be the last time I even saw it. So gutted, not to mention the huge financial hit I'm going to take having ploughed so much money into it over the years.
During their inspections etc they have found awful levels of rust, so they didn't even bother finding out what that initial problem was.
Long story short, it's either a HUGE expense on a full restoration, or it's basically not much better than scrap.
I'm devastated quite frankly, never thought I'd sell this car having owned it for 13 years, and now suddenly the last time I drove it onto the back of that truck might be the last time I even saw it. So gutted, not to mention the huge financial hit I'm going to take having ploughed so much money into it over the years.
C5_Steve said:
So sorry to hear that. Give yourself some time to think about what you want to do, on the one hand Evos aren't losing money right now especially clean ones. On the other if it's that bad, it's just a car at the end of the day. Can always be replaced.
If the shell is that bad you could also look at transplanting the running gear into a clean shell without an engine.
Yeah I'm not going to rush a decision. My heart is telling me to park it up in my garage for however long it takes for me to have the money in the bank and happy to spend it on getting it restored. But it's not a small number by any means, and wouldn't be the wisest decision from a business POV. If the shell is that bad you could also look at transplanting the running gear into a clean shell without an engine.
But it's a car I never thought I'd be without, so letting it go for next to nothing is doubly painful.
The problem is that half the reason it's so special is that is has the chassis No it has etc associated with being an RS450......
Pepperpots said:
If it were mine I'd get a specialist welder to look at it and give a quote.
Well it's currently with an evo specialist who have recently done a full restoration on a Skyline, so they know pretty much exactly what mine would require, so I do have a number. And it's not pretty. Not sure if sending it elsewhere would achieve anything, I fear a lower quote might start off promising but then costs spiral as the work progresses. At least my guys know what sort of numbers we're talking from the start.
don logan said:
I’m gutted for you!
C1 R are located next to the man who originally supplied your car and he also worked for him back in the Ralliart / Xtreme days, it may be worth having a chat with him (Chris) as I know they’ve done small and major restorations!
The EVO 6 is ALWAYS going to be something legendary!
It cannot go in the bin, just consider it a long term thing!
It’s amazing how EVOs can look very good FROM THE OUTSIDE but are pretty bad underneath (I know this personally unfortunately)
As you can imagine my mind is just going over and over the scenarios. I REALLY don't want to lose it, but can one justify spending say £40k on a car that's already had that much spent over 10 years? I just don't know. Who knows how earnings etc will go over the next, say, 5 years, so maybe I should just garage it until spending that amount isn't eye watering. Really not sure what the right thing to do is. C1 R are located next to the man who originally supplied your car and he also worked for him back in the Ralliart / Xtreme days, it may be worth having a chat with him (Chris) as I know they’ve done small and major restorations!
The EVO 6 is ALWAYS going to be something legendary!
It cannot go in the bin, just consider it a long term thing!
It’s amazing how EVOs can look very good FROM THE OUTSIDE but are pretty bad underneath (I know this personally unfortunately)
Still waiting to hear what, if anything, the guys who have it now would offer for it in the current state. They know better than most how special this particular model is, so maybe they'll seem some value in taking it on.
don logan said:
You really should speak to Chris at C1 R, he probably did the PDI check on your car when it was sold new!
£40k to re shell or repair??
My 6 was deteriorating, Chris cleaned the underneath up massively and as crazy as it sounds an “as new” 7RS came up at a good price so I bought it as an alternative to fully restoring my 6 but….. the value of the 7 RS has increased to make it unuseable and it’s not my 6 (that I’ve owned from new)
That's to fully restore the current shell, including what it would probably cost to respray everything as well as all the paintwork is in a pretty dismal condition too. £40k to re shell or repair??
My 6 was deteriorating, Chris cleaned the underneath up massively and as crazy as it sounds an “as new” 7RS came up at a good price so I bought it as an alternative to fully restoring my 6 but….. the value of the 7 RS has increased to make it unuseable and it’s not my 6 (that I’ve owned from new)
It's not an exact quote as it's a bit of a 'who knows' job, but they're basing it somewhere around their experience with the Skyline they restored in terms of man hours that took.
I'll def give C1 R a call, think I remember coming across them on the MLR forums back in the day. I'll happily speak to anyone who might give me some hope that it could be saved for anywhere approaching a reasonable amount.
don logan said:
UTH said:
don logan said:
You really should speak to Chris at C1 R, he probably did the PDI check on your car when it was sold new!
£40k to re shell or repair??
My 6 was deteriorating, Chris cleaned the underneath up massively and as crazy as it sounds an “as new” 7RS came up at a good price so I bought it as an alternative to fully restoring my 6 but….. the value of the 7 RS has increased to make it unuseable and it’s not my 6 (that I’ve owned from new)
That's to fully restore the current shell, including what it would probably cost to respray everything as well as all the paintwork is in a pretty dismal condition too. £40k to re shell or repair??
My 6 was deteriorating, Chris cleaned the underneath up massively and as crazy as it sounds an “as new” 7RS came up at a good price so I bought it as an alternative to fully restoring my 6 but….. the value of the 7 RS has increased to make it unuseable and it’s not my 6 (that I’ve owned from new)
It's not an exact quote as it's a bit of a 'who knows' job, but they're basing it somewhere around their experience with the Skyline they restored in terms of man hours that took.
I'll def give C1 R a call, think I remember coming across them on the MLR forums back in the day. I'll happily speak to anyone who might give me some hope that it could be saved for anywhere approaching a reasonable amount.
There can be NO END to restoration so you have to compromise!
Forget the money you’ve already spent on it, it’s done!
These cars will never be replaced, the GR Yaris is not an EVO!
Anyway, I'll get in touch with Chris and see what his thoughts might be.
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